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  1. #1351
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    No one can turn around Matz. He's a gopher ball machine. I know they have all the analytics and that will focus him on using his most effective offerings more regularly but my god he gets lit up so often.
    He must be tipping his pitches somehow. He was quite effective in 2019. I will look at splits to see if he was just bad when Ramos was his catcher. Thor was definitely affected negatively. I don't think the others were, or they never said.

  2. #1352
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    In the postseason he was. Price won the WS MVP in 2018 and he's a previous Cy Young award winner. Dude isn't chopped liver. Eovaldi was excellent in the 2018 postseason as well.

    The rotation is fine to make the playoffs, although i am still not as bullish as you are in regards to Syndergaard. Matz sucks. Look, I'm not crapping on Carrasco. I'm not sold on Stroman being a TORP, especially come playoff time.
    No Price didnít win WS MVP. His previous accolades arenít relevant to the pitcher he was in 2018. He wasnít elite since 2015. Judging pitchers off a minuscule sample size like the postseason doesnít make much sense to me. Stroman is easily in the same or better tier as those guys. Syndergaard has been great outside of 2019.

  3. #1353
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    No Price didnít win WS MVP. His previous accolades arenít relevant to the pitcher he was in 2018. He wasnít elite since 2015. Judging pitchers off a minuscule sample size like the postseason doesnít make much sense to me. Stroman is easily in the same or better tier as those guys. Syndergaard has been great outside of 2019.
    My bad, he was narrowly the runner up. Doesn't take away from his 3-0 record in his last 4 outings with a 1.37 ERA of the 2018 postseason.

    Of course they are relevant because they speak to the quality of a pitcher he is. Price won a CY Young and was runner up twice. Has Stroman ever come close to that? I'm not buying him ever being that good in a postseason run either.

    I'm not disagreeing on Syndergaard. I'm not sold he's coming back as a dominant SP like you are. Not this season at least.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-10-2021 at 11:07 PM.

  4. #1354
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    My bad, he was narrowly the runner up. Doesn't take away from his 3-0 record in his last 4 outings with a 1.37 ERA of the 2018 postseason.

    Of course they are relevant because they speak to the quality of a pitcher he is. Price won a CY Young and was runner up twice. Has Stroman ever come close to that? I'm not buying him ever being that good in a postseason run either.

    I'm not disagreeing on Syndergaard. I'm not sold he's coming back as a dominant SP like you are. Not this season at least.
    Price in 2018 was still a very good pitcher, but was not an ace like he was in his best years on Tampa and on Detroit/Toronto.

    Price 2016-18: 84 ERA- 89 FIP-
    Stroman career: 89 ERA- 85 FIP-

    Negligible difference. Not saying Stroman ever pitched as good as Price at his best in his younger years, but he did have very good results in 2017 and 2019 (71 ERA- and 73 ERA- respectively) and made the AS team in 2019. Heís a very talented pitcher.

  5. #1355
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    The Official Mets Off Season Thread 2020-2021

    Quote Originally Posted by swbwtr View Post
    He must be tipping his pitches somehow. He was quite effective in 2019. I will look at splits to see if he was just bad when Ramos was his catcher. Thor was definitely affected negatively. I don't think the others were, or they never said.
    Perhaps, but this is his last chance as a Met. If he canít pitch well with McCann behind the plate, I canít see how he comes back in 2022. He should get an opportunity to compete for #5 if Syndergaard isnít ready to start the season. Iíd rather continue beefing up the pen.

  6. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbwtr View Post
    Also, Porcello's FIP was ok. His ERA results were clearly impacted by poor defense behind him. Wacha totally sucked and Oswalt and company - not sure those guys are even replacement player pitchers. They actually produced negative WAR. The whole concept is a replacement level player or pitcher should have a WAR of zero, not negative, lol.
    If Porcello would come back cheap, Iíd take him back. You can definitely win with him as your #5.

    The issue is that he was basically our #2 behind deGrom last season. Thatís unacceptable.

  7. #1357
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    Stroman needs to pitch like Stroman, not pitch like Thor or deGrom. He is a little guy without overpowering stuff. He is a finesse pitcher who should pitch to weak contact and induce groundballs. He seemingly got away from that in 2019 when he came here. That is why his stats with the Mets in 2019 are not quite as awesome as the time in Toronto. He also seems to press too hard in NY even though it is home, or maybe because it is home and he wants to impress. So I hope McCann and the coaches can coax Stro and Matz to go back to their basics and not try to emulate deGrom or Thor or now Carrasco.

  8. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Price in 2018 was still a very good pitcher, but was not an ace like he was in his best years on Tampa and on Detroit/Toronto.

    Price 2016-18: 84 ERA- 89 FIP-
    Stroman career: 89 ERA- 85 FIP-

    Negligible difference. Not saying Stroman ever pitched as good as Price at his best in his younger years, but he did have very good results in 2017 and 2019 (71 ERA- and 73 ERA- respectively) and made the AS team in 2019. Heís a very talented pitcher.
    Fair enough but I'm not sold on Stroman as a #2 SP in a postseason run and with no assurances from Syndergaard, I think this team should focus their efforts on another SP. Even if that happens at the deadline.

  9. #1359
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    I also think if these guys go back to what brung 'em, the Mets will be much better off since it is good to have different types of pitchers so the hitters don't see the same stuff everyday.

  10. #1360
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    Peterson is a lefty and he is a finesse pitcher. Matz has better stuff, harder stuff as a lefty but needs to use his secondary pitches more. Proper pitch selection, listening to his buddy the catcher and a team psychiatrist ought to try to help Matz. Stro could be a more than adequate #2 and maybe a #1 but he will never be the strikeout artist that deGrom, Thor or Carrasco are. They are different pitchers entirely. I don't care if you turn the rotation upside down, deGrom as the 5th starter will probably win more in that case since he won't be opposed by other teams aces.

  11. #1361
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    There was a lot of talk on Twitter last night that the Braves might be making a push for Kris Bryant. I could definitely see that happening given the farm system they have, the need for a 3rd baseman, and the fact that the Cubs are probably not re-signing Bryant next year. It could be a very similar situation to how the Mets got Lindor.

  12. #1362
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Perhaps, but this is his last chance as a Met. If he canít pitch well with McCann behind the plate, I canít see how he comes back in 2022. He should get an opportunity to compete for #5 if Syndergaard isnít ready to start the season. Iíd rather continue beefing up the pen.
    Yes, the pen could use at least one more good reliever. Don't need a scrap heap or AAAA pitcher. We have an ample amount of those already signed to minors deals with spring training invites. But I would still look for a mid rotation guy who might be available but at a bargain. I know "you never have enough pitching" but we need to sign or extend some people before and during the season (Conforto and Lindor for example), so I would rather focus on that soon instead of continuing to go down the rabbit holes of Springer and Bauer. If they sincerely wanted to play for the Mets, they would have said yes already or be in active negotiations with us. They seem to be just stringing us along and their agents trying to get us to bid against ourselves. That alway a disengenuous game. I also don't want anymore of our top prospects traded at this point. This team, as presently constructed is a 40 plus WAR team by most analysis. Protect the rest of our thin farm. We do need a defensive first third baseman to spell J.D. but Bryant ain't that and certainly not for the price of our most prized prospect, Francisco Alvarez. Kris Bryant is not much better than J.D. defensively and J.D. over the past couple of years has been better offensively.

  13. #1363
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    There was a lot of talk on Twitter last night that the Braves might be making a push for Kris Bryant. I could definitely see that happening given the farm system they have, the need for a 3rd baseman, and the fact that the Cubs are probably not re-signing Bryant next year. It could be a very similar situation to how the Mets got Lindor.
    I'm scared of the Braves when they make any move.... they just seem to always hit the jackpot. Donaldson, Ozuna, etc.

  14. #1364
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    I'm scared of the Braves when they make any move.... they just seem to always hit the jackpot. Donaldson, Ozuna, etc.
    I could see the Braves making a reactionary move because the Mets are loading up this offseason. They were one win away from the WS last year. I dont know if they are willing to pay Ozuna but a 1 year rental for Bryant is perfect for them.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-11-2021 at 11:00 AM.

  15. #1365
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    Lindorís press conference in on now...dude is as likable as youíd think


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