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  1. #271
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    Nov 2011
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    Not mad, not sad about what today. I simply going to enjoy tomorrow for what it is...the last game of the season and for the core of this team.
    Screw sabermetics.

  2. #272
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutPunch33 View Post
    The cubs can probably still win this series but definitely disappointing to see this offense not do well. This might spell the end here for a lot of these guys (hopefully)
    If the offense craps the bed again tomorrow and we're eliminated, is this "collapse" any different than either of the last two years? And if it's not, do we expect anything different in the off-season?

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  3. #273
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Simon View Post
    If the offense craps the bed again tomorrow and we're eliminated, is this "collapse" any different than either of the last two years? And if it's not, do we expect anything different in the off-season?

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    I think if they lose tomorrow it will suck. But they would have played more playoff games than 2018 or 2019, so i guess it's an improvement worst-case scenario? LOL.

    This was supposed to be a reset year anyways. The ownership didn't go all-in on this team, most of us figured we'd hover around .500 this year, and we did that after our hot start where some of our starters were overachieving.

    Win or lose we need to significantly improve this offseason. No more status quo BS again this winter.

  4. #274
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    Aug 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Simon View Post
    If the offense craps the bed again tomorrow and we're eliminated, is this "collapse" any different than either of the last two years? And if it's not, do we expect anything different in the off-season?

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    This is hardly a "collapse". The Cubs were always going to be around a .500 team. Any single team can best any single team in a three game set. Literally happens all the time.

    This is not a regular year. Anyone treating this as a "collapse" both doesn't understand the randomness of a three game set, and they overrate what this team always was.

    The Cubs can still very easily win 2 games. Maybe they dont. Im not sure whats going to happen. But this isn't a collapse if they don't. Its just a mediocre team losing in a dumb playoff format.

    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

  5. #275
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    Nov 2006
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    Wisconsin
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    Hopefully Darvish doesnít **** the bed tomorrow, but the offense needs to step up. Otherwise what Darvish does wonít matter.

  6. #276
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    Jul 2019
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    The best thing going for us tomorrow is we have one of the MLB's elite starters from this season going for us tomorrow, and they have their #2 starting. Of all 3 games, Game 2 is our best mathematical chance to win.

    A bonus is they already used their best 2 relievers in Game 1 and we have Kimbrel fresh.

  7. #277
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    Jun 2004
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    Really disappointed but not surprised at all by today's result.

  8. #278
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    I really had hoped the Cubs would have given the Marlins their first ever playoff series loss but oh well.
    Screw sabermetics.

  9. #279
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    Dec 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubsRule08 View Post
    All up to Darvish tomorrow to force that Game 3
    Oh I expect Darvish to be brilliant. I think the Cubs win today. My real thing what they do tomorrow.. donít want to get carried away obviously..this team has championship heart, they have to win today and force game 3.

  10. #280
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    Dec 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    This is hardly a "collapse". The Cubs were always going to be around a .500 team. Any single team can best any single team in a three game set. Literally happens all the time.

    This is not a regular year. Anyone treating this as a "collapse" both doesn't understand the randomness of a three game set, and they overrate what this team always was.

    The Cubs can still very easily win 2 games. Maybe they dont. Im not sure whats going to happen. But this isn't a collapse if they don't. Its just a mediocre team losing in a dumb playoff format.

    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk
    I donít think the team losing is a collapse, and I wouldnít use the word collapse but I think the offense is definitely a disaster. Guys like Kipnis, Caratini, Hoerner, Vargas, Maybin, are borderline MLB players (I would throw Schwarberís name in there too but donít want to get into a debate) . Bryant and Baez have been both been invisible all year and Rizzo and Contreras have regressed. To have so many of these guys expected to produce regularly is unreasonable. It probably wasnít expected but they have ample evidence now to do what is right for the team moving forward.

    The lineup needs a major shake up, IMO. Even Happís OPS has fallen .100 points since he was being discussed as a potential MVP candidate (although still a great player, Iím very happy with him)

    I would keep Rizzo, Contreras and Happ. See what Nico has. Theyíre stuck with Heyward.
    See what I can get for Baez, Bryant and Schwarber.

    Man itís hindsight but what a get Alec Bohm would have been for Bryant this off season. The Phillies wanted Bryant/a 3B bad and Iím sure had discussions with Theo. IIRC Bohm was between 30-40 range for prospects. Not an unreasonable ask for 2 years of KB, knowing what we knew before this season.

    I would make those some kind of trades, and even send multiple guys for any chance at a top 30-40 prospect, pitching or hitting.

    IMO, if the Cubs added one more big time pitcher (I really wanted Clevinger, a pitcher along that caliber) but lost 3-4 of these guys like Bryant, Schwarber, Baez and Rizzo, they will be every bit as competitive as they are now with a 3-ace rotation like the Nats had in 2019 and the Indians have had basically every year.

    I would do anything, anything to get Plesac if Iím Theo if thereís any interest from the Indians in trading him. People say the Cubs wonít have pieces to get him well I say you can really
    get anybody you want if you dig deep enough in your system. Iíd do it for this kid Plesac, heís special. And he clearly likes Chicago..lol
    Last edited by PeanutPunch33; 10-01-2020 at 09:07 AM.

  11. #281
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    Aug 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutPunch33 View Post
    I donít think the team losing is a collapse, and I wouldnít use the word collapse but I think the offense is definitely a disaster. Guys like Kipnis, Caratini, Hoerner, Vargas, Maybin, are borderline MLB players (I would throw Schwarberís name in there too but donít want to get into a debate) . Bryant and Baez have been both been invisible all year and Rizzo and Contreras have regressed. To have so many of these guys expected to produce regularly is unreasonable. It probably wasnít expected but they have ample evidence now to do what is right for the team moving forward.

    The lineup needs a major shake up, IMO. Even Happís OPS has fallen .100 points since he was being discussed as a potential MVP candidate (although still a great player, Iím very happy with him)

    I would keep Rizzo, Contreras and Happ. See what Nico has. Theyíre stuck with Heyward.
    See what I can get for Baez, Bryant and Schwarber.

    Man itís hindsight but what a get Alec Bohm would have been for Bryant this off season. The Phillies wanted Bryant/a 3B bad and Iím sure had discussions with Theo. IIRC Bohm was between 30-40 range for prospects. Not an unreasonable ask for 2 years of KB, knowing what we knew before this season.

    I would make those some kind of trades, and even send multiple guys for any chance at a top 30-40 prospect, pitching or hitting.

    IMO, if the Cubs added one more big time pitcher (I really wanted Clevinger, a pitcher along that caliber) but lost 3-4 of these guys like Bryant, Schwarber, Baez and Rizzo, they will be every bit as competitive as they are now with a 3-ace rotation like the Nats had in 2019 and the Indians have had basically every year.

    I would do anything, anything to get Plesac if Iím Theo if thereís any interest from the Indians in trading him. People say the Cubs wonít have pieces to get him well I say you can really
    get anybody you want if you dig deep enough in your system. Iíd do it for this kid Plesac, heís special. And he clearly likes Chicago..lol
    I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say that the Cubs are having a good offensive season. But that wasn't my original point. So we're not disagreeing there, but my post has nothing to do with that. With that said I think "regression" is not correct for almost every guy. We're talking two months. You're throwing out words with massive implications based on small season sample sizes. If last year was the 1/2 year, Jose Ramirez would have "regressed". So would have Michael Conforto. So would have Bryce Harper. If it's this year, well I guess Carlos Correa regressed, and Cody Bellinger. And Eugenio Suarez. I would not make declarative statements over 60 games. One bad month is normal for any MLB'er. If you had your bad month this year, you ruined your total numbers.

    The Phillies did not want Bryant bad. The closest we got was "exploratory" conversations. This is completely revisionist history. Hell, Harper was on record saying they shouldn't trade for him. His good buddy didn't want to trade for him. He said that back in February. The Cubs were never in deep conversations with Philadelphia and it was because the Phillies were never interested. Alec Bohm was never a real rumor. It was something the forum wanted. Not a real thing. So it's not worth bringing up his name. It was never close. The Phillies never showed overt interest in Bryant according to every report available.

    You're also not getting much for Baez/Bryant/Schwarber right now. Trading them with 1 year of service coupled with bad seasons? You're getting mediocre talent back. Honestly, the only chance the Cubs have in 2021 is with those guys bouncing back. Probably both ways; to recoup value and to win. What team is paying a premium for those guys after 2020?

    Lastly, there's not going to be any Plesac trade. The Indians have no motivation for it.

    The Cubs are probably going to move some of these guys this year. The return is going to be a lot less than people here think it's going to be. And they're going to re-invest a lot less of that money than people here think they will.

  12. #282
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    Dec 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say that the Cubs are having a good offensive season. But that wasn't my original point. So we're not disagreeing there, but my post has nothing to do with that. With that said I think "regression" is not correct for almost every guy. We're talking two months. You're throwing out words with massive implications based on small season sample sizes. If last year was the 1/2 year, Jose Ramirez would have "regressed". So would have Michael Conforto. So would have Bryce Harper. If it's this year, well I guess Carlos Correa regressed, and Cody Bellinger. And Eugenio Suarez. I would not make declarative statements over 60 games. One bad month is normal for any MLB'er. If you had your bad month this year, you ruined your total numbers.

    The Phillies did not want Bryant bad. The closest we got was "exploratory" conversations. This is completely revisionist history. Hell, Harper was on record saying they shouldn't trade for him. His good buddy didn't want to trade for him. He said that back in February. The Cubs were never in deep conversations with Philadelphia and it was because the Phillies were never interested. Alec Bohm was never a real rumor. It was something the forum wanted. Not a real thing. So it's not worth bringing up his name. It was never close. The Phillies never showed overt interest in Bryant according to every report available.

    You're also not getting much for Baez/Bryant/Schwarber right now. Trading them with 1 year of service coupled with bad seasons? You're getting mediocre talent back. Honestly, the only chance the Cubs have in 2021 is with those guys bouncing back. Probably both ways; to recoup value and to win. What team is paying a premium for those guys after 2020?

    Lastly, there's not going to be any Plesac trade. The Indians have no motivation for it.

    The Cubs are probably going to move some of these guys this year. The return is going to be a lot less than people here think it's going to be. And they're going to re-invest a lot less of that money than people here think they will.
    I only mentioned Rizzo and Contreras as guys who I think have regressed and unfortunately, I do think itís true to a certain degree. But even then yeah probably too soon to say that.

  13. #283
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    Jan 2007
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    I blame myself.

    As soon as I posted yesterday, I left the office to umpire.

    I'm here today, we win, it's certain.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutPunch33 View Post
    I only mentioned Rizzo and Contreras as guys who I think have regressed and unfortunately, I do think itís true to a certain degree. But even then yeah probably too soon to say that.
    Okay, so why have they regressed? Contreras:
    2019: 9.3 BB%, 24.9 K%, 88.5% EV, 15.8% LD, 37.3 Hard Contact, .261 ISO, 27.3% HR/FB
    2020: 8.9 BB%, 25.3% K%, 89.8 EV, 19.5% LD, 35.8% Hard contact, .164 ISO, 15.9% HR/FB
    2020 by month: 163 wRC+ in July, 63 wRC+ in August, 144 in September

    I don't even have to ask a question if he declined. It's right there. August was a bad month, September was a really good month, as was July. This is why it's ridiculous to say things like "I do think it's true to a degree" that Contreras declined. He didn't "decline". He's the same great Contreras who's being highly effected by one bad month because he doesn't have 4 more months to even that out. This is why claiming these guys "declined" is inane. It's another one of your hot takes. Take 5 seconds and look at the numbers and it'll show Conteras didn't decline. These guys don't have sample sizes to make such over arching claims.

    Guys like Baez are a bit more concerning to me, but that's because someone like Baez has always defied what we knew about good hitters. Good hitters never do what Baez does; make a living hitting bad pitches to hit. Did it catch up with him? I'm actually concerned there. But Contreras? No. No I'm not concerned.

    So, looking at Contreras every peripheral is right where you'd expect it except the HR's arent' going out. He's not striking out significantly more, his zone contact is about the same, he's hitting the ball hard, he's hitting less ground balls, and he had a bad August.

  15. #285
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    Sep 2007
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    Addison, IL
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    Game 2 lineup:

    Happ CF
    Rizzo 1B
    Contreras DH
    Schwarber LF
    Bryant 3B
    Heyward RF
    Baez SS
    Bote 2B
    Caratini C

    Darvish P

    2016 World Series Champions!!!


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