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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    A surprising percentage of people would take LBJ over MJ already. Maybe 20 or 39 percent id guess.

    Maybe he can get that up to 40 or so.

    I think he's already the GOAT.

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
    There's data on this and it's about 73% of people who pick MJ...the other 27% are kind of crazy, no offense

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...-poll-nba-fans

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    There's data on this and it's about 73% of people who pick MJ...the other 27% are kind of crazy, no offense

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...-poll-nba-fans
    now you want to use data? shocker... any argument that hurts james you wanna use data lololololol

  3. #18
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    Lebron better than MJ? Lol!! Thanks for the laugh..

  4. #19
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    LeBron is on a stacked team though. This championship doesn't do significantly more to raise his all time ranking. Having said that, MJ was on more stacked teams.

    Dirk Nowitzki says "f--k you, b--ch a-- Karens who need an All Star team to ensure victory."
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  5. #20
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    By the way, I'm just mad because my favorite players weren't ever on stacked teams... Don't mind me.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    now you want to use data? shocker... any argument that hurts james you wanna use data lololololol
    The data here is directly related to what was being discussed (peoples' opinion on who is better). The data you're referring to is not so clear cut. There's a big difference there. It would be different if I was saying that we should take this data as an indicator of who is better, which I am not.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    what does lebron have to do in your opinion being the 2nd greatest player of all time to pass MJ? They make all valid points nobody has had more pressure ever then lebron and nobody has had a harder season then this current season then lebron dealing with the kobe death/pandemic/social justice issues etc.
    Because it's a subjective debate, this is a hard question to answer. There are some crazy people out there who think Wilt or Kareem are the GOAT, not Jordan. So it really just depends on what barometers you judge success by. Does he need to pass Jordan in rings? Does tying Jordan with rings, but surpassing him in every all-time, longevity based category do it? Does building the Lakers into a dynasty and winning rings with three different teams plus all the longer-term accolades do it?

    For me, personally, I'm not sure he can pass Jordan. But I will say there's things he could to make it closer to a coin flip. If he were to win multiple rings with the Lakers (so at least five total), gives us 3-5 more years of this level of play and go on to dominate every major all-time statistic, that at least makes "Jordan or Lebron" a legitimate conversation. But because Jordan's peak is stronger, and his postseason track record is still so strong, I just don't know that Lebron can get there in my eyes where I could legitimately say "Lebron > Jordan."


  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    LeBron is on a stacked team though. This championship doesn't do significantly more to raise his all time ranking. Having said that, MJ was on more stacked teams.

    Dirk Nowitzki says "f--k you, b--ch a-- Karens who need an All Star team to ensure victory."
    Mmm... Is it that stacked? This feels more like what we thought of "stacked" teams as in the 80s-early 2000s that had two superstars and some solid role players. But by this era's definition of stacked where most champions have 3-4 future hall of famers playing in their prime, it's hard to look at this Lakers team and think it's better than the Warriors or the first 2-3 years of that Lebron/Wade/Bosh Heat squad.

    I'd put this squad more on par with his Cavs teams in his second stint in Cleveland, but with Davis being a superior running mate to Kyrie and no real legitimate third option like what they had with Love.


  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    ********. Jordan, everyone would have team hopped. Different era.

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
    Looking at the last 20 years starting from 2000, who would you say were the greatest players of this era?

    Out of that group Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, and Wade did not team hop and they account for the majority of Finals appearances. So clearly your claim that "everyone" would is false. LeBron and Shaq were the only 2 that really moved around in their prime, looking at that same group of greatest players. It's no coincidence they've gotten to the Finals more than others as a result.

    I'm not even a LeBron hater whatsoever, but just accept the facts as they are, man.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Mmm... Is it that stacked? This feels more like what we thought of "stacked" teams as in the 80s-early 2000s that had two superstars and some solid role players. But by this era's definition of stacked where most champions have 3-4 future hall of famers playing in their prime, it's hard to look at this Lakers team and think it's better than the Warriors or the first 2-3 years of that Lebron/Wade/Bosh Heat squad.

    I'd put this squad more on par with his Cavs teams in his second stint in Cleveland, but with Davis being a superior running mate to Kyrie and no real legitimate third option like what they had with Love.
    I agree to a certain degree with what you're saying. I just think the GSW were a super stacked team, an outlier to "super teams" in that they had 4x starters that were all stars in addition to an amazing bench. So while this Lakers team is not the GSW, I think they are loads better than the Kyrie/Love Cavs team. AD is so good, you don't really need a 3rd star.

    Now when we compare this Lakers team to the Heat, I'm sorry, the Heat have absolutely NOTHING to lose and EVERYTHING to gain in this match up. THey have no business being in the Finals. This is actually a complement to them, and not an insult. It's so lopsided in my mind that when the Lakers win, I don't think it moves the needle much. Had LeBron taken down Kawhi, then I would say the needle is moved a bit more. I can understand how this is essentially penalizing LeBron for something out of his control (the Clippers choking a 3-1 lead over the Nuggets), but that is how I measure it (which is admittedly subjective).
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  11. #26
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    Just to throw this out there, if Bam puts up similar numbers and similar impact as he has this postseason against AD, I will actually consider him on par (perhaps even superior to) Jimmy Butler. I already have Butler as a top 10 player for what he's done thus far, but Bam sort of carried the series against the Celtics.

    If Bam's nuts drop and he puts AD in his place, no one should then doubt how great of a player he is, even if this is his first season of dominance. I say this, and I can't think of a franchise I dislike more than the Heat, just being objective.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Looking at the last 20 years starting from 2000, who would you say were the greatest players of this era?

    Out of that group Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, and Wade did not team hop and they account for the majority of Finals appearances. So clearly your claim that "everyone" would is false. LeBron and Shaq were the only 2 that really moved around in their prime, looking at that same group of greatest players. It's no coincidence they've gotten to the Finals more than others as a result.

    I'm not even a LeBron hater whatsoever, but just accept the facts as they are, man.
    First of all, going to Miami is a team hop.ok, I'll give you that.


    Going back to Cleveland should only strengthen his legacy along with going to LA. Both **** teams.


    All of those guys came up with great organizations. Mavs have been a high quality team for 20 years or a little less. Duncan had the spurs. Kobe has the lakers. Wade had the heat and Riley.

    LeBron had the cavs



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  13. #28
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    Even if the Lakers win this year, I'm still not calling LBJ the GOAT. But if they repeat and win it again next year, it will be awfully hard not to. That will be 5 rings with different teams, different coaches -- and with most of the elite stars all due back from injury by next season, it will mean that the Lakers went through a gauntlet of the best of the best to reach the playoffs, win through to the Finals and take the crown. Yeah, if that happens there will be no denying that LeBron is the GOAT. The Lakers need to retire Pau Gasol's jersey next year so that they can put LeBron's jersey next to it, if LBJ wins two rings as a Laker.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    I agree to a certain degree with what you're saying. I just think the GSW were a super stacked team, an outlier to "super teams" in that they had 4x starters that were all stars in addition to an amazing bench. So while this Lakers team is not the GSW, I think they are loads better than the Kyrie/Love Cavs team. AD is so good, you don't really need a 3rd star.

    Now when we compare this Lakers team to the Heat, I'm sorry, the Heat have absolutely NOTHING to lose and EVERYTHING to gain in this match up. THey have no business being in the Finals. This is actually a complement to them, and not an insult. It's so lopsided in my mind that when the Lakers win, I don't think it moves the needle much. Had LeBron taken down Kawhi, then I would say the needle is moved a bit more. I can understand how this is essentially penalizing LeBron for something out of his control (the Clippers choking a 3-1 lead over the Nuggets), but that is how I measure it (which is admittedly subjective).
    But a championship is a championship. If they win this, will it be considered among the all-time great titles? Hell no. Of Lebron's four rings, it would almost certainly be his least impressive. But we also have the benefit of hindsight with those other teams. This Heat team could be the team to beat in the East and be a 55-win team the next 2-3 years. That Nuggets team might be the sameŚwe don't have historical perspective on these teams yet to know how good they really are.

    I will say two things, though for Lebron's legacy and the impact of this series:

    1. With the lack of supporting talent in his first stint in Cleveland and the absolute stacked nature of the Warriors the last few years, you could easily argue he could have more rings than he has. So we can call this a makeup ring, and I'd feel good with that.

    2. The chaos of this year and of this mini-bubble season has been crazy. And I think the team that comes out on top deserves some credit for being able to navigate that. You had two other stellar teams in Milwaukee and the Clippers who both got knocked out way before anyone expected, but the Lakers have been dominant throughout. It's unfair to discredit a title when other great teams failed to win it the same year.

    Also, for all those insane fans out there who constantly bring up Lebron's Finals record, another one added to the win column will only help. And if this is the start of a larger dynasty that brings multiple rings to LA, that will REALLY add to Lebron's legacy in the long run.


  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    LeBron is on a stacked team though. This championship doesn't do significantly more to raise his all time ranking. Having said that, MJ was on more stacked teams.

    Dirk Nowitzki says "f--k you, b--ch a-- Karens who need an All Star team to ensure victory."
    No way is this Lakers team stacked!! If AD or Bron have an off game they are cooked. Who is their #3? Kuzma did not live up to the billing. He might as well by Herro. He could have a big game but might not. D12? who people haven't talked about seriously in years just because his dunks are on a good team now? Same with Rondo, KCP, and Danny Green. Caruso is fun but not even close to someone you could list as a stacked team. If they win its a legit ring and it definitely enhances Bron's legacy.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

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