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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    That's actually true and it makes things even worse for all three individuals concerned.

    Lots of minus points on legacy, especially with that atrocious 50% win rate in 4 years when the expectation was 4/4 at least. And according to themselves, 7+...
    The Finals record argument is so tired and poorly conceived. You want to knock the guy for 2011? Go for it. But they were 100% an underdog in that second Spurs series, and Wade was a shell of himself at that point.

    Also, Wilt's Finals record, most of his Finals teams were underdogs, yadda, yadda, yadda... Rinse and repeat. I'm so sick of that take...


  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    The Finals record argument is so tired and poorly conceived. You want to knock the guy for 2011? Go for it. But they were 100% an underdog in that second Spurs series, and Wade was a shell of himself at that point.

    Also, Wilt's Finals record, most of his Finals teams were underdogs, yadda, yadda, yadda... Rinse and repeat. I'm so sick of that take...
    Exactly. The Dallas loss is really the only blemish for lebron in the finals. They should have won that one and they didnt. The flip side should be his Cleveland title that he really had no business winning.

    I hate to sound like a broken drum, but we know how good the bulls were without jordan. In his first retired season, they went 55-27, got the 3 seed in the east and went to a game 7 in the 2nd round. For all intents and purposes, the bulls without jordan were basically pre and post kawhi Toronto. Then they added Jordan back.

    I'm not trying to dock Jordan and say he shouldn't be the GOAT. I've already said he and lebron are pretty much equal to me. Jordan gets the nod that his peak was a little higher and lebron gets the longevity nod. So you can pick your poison. But the finals record stuff and ultimate winner crap is nonsense. Jordan's bulls were really freaking good even without him. Sure, Jordan played a hand in helping develop that, but Pippen was a legend and a perfect compliment. Rodman was a perfect fit. Those teams were good. Horace Grant was a pretty good player. Guys liek kukoc and Kerr and those types were good fits.

    Early career Jordan had garbage teammates and couldn't win. Once he got Pippen and Pippen developed into a stud, the Bulls actually did a phenomenal job of team building around Jordan. It's not like Jordan learned to win. His teammates just stopped sucking.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 10-10-2020 at 09:49 AM.

  3. #213
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    LeBron James NBA Finals Games Record History:

    2007: 0-4 against Spurs
    2011: 2-4 against Mavericks
    2012: 4-1 against Thunder - title & Finals MVP
    2013: 4-3 against Spurs - title & Finals MVP
    2014: 1-4 against Spurs
    2015: 2-4 against Warriors
    2016: 4-3 against Warriors - title & Finals MVP
    2017: 1-4 against Warriors
    2018: 0-4 against Warriors
    2020: 3-2 against Heat ... to be continued...


    Record: 21 wins and 33 losses so far in 10 NBA Finals appearances - resulting in 3 titles & Finals MVPs

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    He is good at colluding to get other stars and then attracts mercenaries looking for a ring. It’s works bc he is great still The fact players generally don’t grow under him and franchises are set up only for the short term with him is a negative imo
    Think most franchises would take the ring he brings in the short term.

    NYK’s point was Bron doesn’t attract talent. Another superstar player wanting to collide to play with him directly contradicts that.

    You guys are trying to argue the general “LeBron sucks” and in do so, you’re undercutting the specific reasons you gave for why he sucks.

    If AD colluded to go to LA: he attracts talent. If he doesn’t attract talent, AD couldn’t have colluded to want to play with Bron. So which is it?

  5. #215
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    The pandemic was too much for LeBron last night

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    The pandemic was too much for LeBron last night


  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    He is good at colluding to get other stars and then attracts mercenaries looking for a ring. It’s works bc he is great still The fact players generally don’t grow under him and franchises are set up only for the short term with him is a negative imo

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm not sure that's true, actually. The Heat fell apart because Wade and Bosh's bodies broke down and they weren't the same guys. Lebron had nothing to do with that team not having more long-term success. If Wade was still healthy and good, Lebron might still be in Miami.

    In Cleveland, Kyrie clearly wanted out, and Love also was starting to deal with major injury issues. If you want to fault him for anything, I guess you can blame him for getting guys like Tristan Thompson and JR Smith too much money, but he's not the one cutting the checks.

    In LA, he helped attract one the best young superstars on the planet via trade and turned that franchise around for the future. Clearly they have a lot of room to grow and add around those two, but the Lakers have certainly "grown" a hell of a lot more than they were prior to Lebron's presence. And if Lebron leaves or retires in a couple of years, but the team has AD still, they'll be in a better position than they were when before he got there.


  8. #218
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    I don't think the Lakers really needed Lebron to attract a top player to join them. That's how they roll. If anything, that's why Lebron ended up there in the first place.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    He’s 1 win away from beating the China controversy and the COVID pandemic all by himself, this is an amazing run
    We are not worthy

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Think most franchises would take the ring he brings in the short term.

    NYK’s point was Bron doesn’t attract talent. Another superstar player wanting to collide to play with him directly contradicts that.

    You guys are trying to argue the general “LeBron sucks” and in do so, you’re undercutting the specific reasons you gave for why he sucks.

    If AD colluded to go to LA: he attracts talent. If he doesn’t attract talent, AD couldn’t have colluded to want to play with Bron. So which is it?
    I didn’t dispute that he attracts talent and I definitely didn’t say he sucks. learn to read


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Think most franchises would take the ring he brings in the short term.

    NYK’s point was Bron doesn’t attract talent. Another superstar player wanting to collide to play with him directly contradicts that.

    You guys are trying to argue the general “LeBron sucks” and in do so, you’re undercutting the specific reasons you gave for why he sucks.

    If AD colluded to go to LA: he attracts talent. If he doesn’t attract talent, AD couldn’t have colluded to want to play with Bron. So which is it?
    No, it was not. That's again your wrong conclusion on a text. You're becoming a serial miscomprehension machine, I expected no less.


    No one is arguing that he sucks. If anything, you are arguing that thousands of NBA players throughout history "suck" just because they are not rated as top 5 or top 10.


    And once again, please tell me how you arrived to the conclusion that Anthony Davis moved to LA because of Lebron. Do you think it was inconceivable that Anthony Davis would want to wear the Lakers jersey regardless of Lebron's presence? A significant amount of the very best players throughout NBA history have worn that jersey and it will never lose its potency and attractiveness.

    Arguing that Lebron attracted players to the Lakers at his age is a bit naive honestly, it's not as if he's in Milwaukee or Memphis. Why didn't someone like Anthony Davis join Lebron at Cleveland? They had the resources to pull off a similar move and they were also perennial EC champions, yet the freaking Clippers managed to pull off some great moves despite never going to be anything more than second fiddle in Los Angeles...


    I'm waiting for the list of top talent that Lebron attracted to his teams though. I don't comment on the why or how, all I'm saying is that it never really happened to the extent you are implying it did. Colluding with Wade and Bosh to team up isn't attracting talent. He "attracted" a 38 year old Shaquille O'Neal at Cleveland. You cannot really give him full credit for guys like Ray Allen as Wade and Bosh were already there and they were clear cut favorites to get out from the East so it was considered an automatic Finals' appearance. At Cleveland I cannot really recall anyone else. At Los Angeles you only have this Davis trade, a move that the Lakers would probably try to conclude either way.
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 10-10-2020 at 06:17 PM.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    No, it was not. That's again your wrong conclusion on a text. You're becoming a serial miscomprehension machine, I expected no less.

    No one is arguing that he sucks. If anything, you are arguing that thousands of NBA players throughout history "suck" just because they are not rated as top 5 or top 10.

    And once again, please tell me how you arrived to the conclusion that Anthony Davis moved to LA because of Lebron. Do you think it was inconceivable that Anthony Davis would want to wear the Lakers jersey regardless of Lebron's presence? A significant amount of the very best players throughout NBA history have worn that jersey and it will never lose its potency and attractiveness.

    Arguing that Lebron attracted players to the Lakers at his age is a bit naive honestly, it's not as if he's in Milwaukee or Memphis. Why didn't someone like Anthony Davis join Lebron at Cleveland? They had the resources to pull off a similar move and they were also perennial EC champions, yet the freaking Clippers managed to pull off some great moves despite never going to be anything more than second fiddle in Los Angeles...

    I'm waiting for the list of top talent that Lebron attracted to his teams though. I don't comment on the why or how, all I'm saying is that it never really happened to the extent you are implying it did. Colluding with Wade and Bosh to team up isn't attracting talent. He "attracted" a 38 year old Shaquille O'Neal at Cleveland. You cannot really give him full credit for guys like Ray Allen as Wade and Bosh were already there and they were clear cut favorites to get out from the East so it was considered an automatic Finals' appearance. At Cleveland I cannot really recall anyone else. At Los Angeles you only have this Davis trade, a move that the Lakers would probably try to conclude either way.
    Where could I have got the notion you don't think he attracts talent? How about your last post:

    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    He attracts talent?

    He joined Miami, not the other way around. So he joined a team that already had Wade and Bosh. Ray Allen joined them later on, but he was what? 37?

    Which elite talent did he attract? Anthony Davis was acquired via trade by the way. Yeah, he requested a trade but even with the latest news we have no evidence that he explicitly demanded to be traded to the Lakers but to a team that had chances to compete for the championship.

    I'd honestly love to see the list of solid players that joined Lebron's team on their own accord, or pushed for a trade.
    Yeah, how could anyone think you're saying he doesn't attract talent

    Heck, your entire post after saying your point isn't that he doesn't attract talent is to ask what talent he has attracted.

    I'm not a misapprehension machine, you're a contradiction machine.

    So... do you think he attracts talent or not?


    As for AD moving to LA because of LeBron, I'm not the one saying that: Ewing is (so ask him).
    Last edited by valade16; 10-10-2020 at 06:30 PM.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I didn’t dispute that he attracts talent and I definitely didn’t say he sucks. learn to read
    My apologies. You didn't say he sucks, you just said his ability to attract talent is a negative. Big difference...

    I'm sure the Cleveland Cavaliers and Miami Heat don't view their titles as a negative.

  14. 10-10-2020, 06:33 PM

  15. #224
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    If Lebron Wins this title

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    My apologies. You didn't say he sucks, you just said his ability to attract talent is a negative. Big difference...

    I'm sure the Cleveland Cavaliers and Miami Heat don't view their titles as a negative.
    I didn’t say that either. In the short post you quoted I said he was great.

    I don’t think James having had success on multiple teams as opposed to one team enhances his legacy. That what another poster said and what I was responding to. I think it would be more impressive without the team hoping/teaming building he’s done





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    Last edited by ewing; 10-10-2020 at 11:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  16. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaVar Ball View Post
    LeBron James NBA Finals Games Record History:

    2007: 0-4 against Spurs
    2011: 2-4 against Mavericks
    2012: 4-1 against Thunder - title & Finals MVP
    2013: 4-3 against Spurs - title & Finals MVP
    2014: 1-4 against Spurs
    2015: 2-4 against Warriors
    2016: 4-3 against Warriors - title & Finals MVP
    2017: 1-4 against Warriors
    2018: 0-4 against Warriors
    2020: 3-2 against Heat ... to be continued...


    Record: 21 wins and 33 losses so far in 10 NBA Finals appearances - resulting in 3 titles & Finals MVPs
    Not sure what you're exactly illustrating, but it's a solid point for the pro lebron crowd. LeBron has lost in the finals 6 times and 5 of the 6 have been to teams that are pretty much dynasties. The spurs won 5 titles, and lebron was 1-2 against them. Golden State put together arguably one of the most talented rosters of all time and lebron went 1-3 against them.

    This isn't mean to disparage Jordan or anything. I know he had to battle the end of the celtcs dynasty early in his career. But it's not like lebron is out here losing to garbage teams either. Again, the Dallas loss is bad. Allowing Miami to come back and win would be bad. But the other 5 losses are to some really legitimatly great teams.

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