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  1. #196
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    You can have the debates just like Wilt, Russell, Kareem and even Magic to some degree are in the debate. But no one from 1984 until whenever will surpass MJ as the GOAT as a consensus unless they end up with more titles/finals mvp's. I know Russell has the titles but remember it was only 2 series to win back then for a title. Since 1984 you needed to win 4 series a year for a title.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
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  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Lebron's adaptability and ability to attract talent to his teams definitely helps his legacy in my book.
    He attracts talent?

    He joined Miami, not the other way around. So he joined a team that already had Wade and Bosh. Ray Allen joined them later on, but he was what? 37?

    Which elite talent did he attract? Anthony Davis was acquired via trade by the way. Yeah, he requested a trade but even with the latest news we have no evidence that he explicitly demanded to be traded to the Lakers but to a team that had chances to compete for the championship.

    I'd honestly love to see the list of solid players that joined Lebron's team on their own accord, or pushed for a trade.
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 10-09-2020 at 08:16 PM.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    He attracts talent?

    He joined Miami, not the other way around. So he joined a team that already had Wade and Bosh. Ray Allen joined them later on, but he was what? 37?

    Which elite talent did he attract? Anthony Davis was acquired via trade by the way. Yeah, he requested a trade but even with the latest news we have no evidence that he explicitly demanded to be traded to the Lakers but to a team that had chances to compete for the championship.

    I'd honestly love to see the list of solid players that joined Lebron's team on their own accord, or pushed for a trade.
    You need to talk to Ewing. Apparently AD specifically requested a trade to LA to team up with LeBron. Also, apparently Bosh and Wade all agreed to team up in Miami far before the decision, so it's not like Bosh went there not knowing whether LeBron would go or not.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    It depends. We were chatting about continuity the other day and how MJ had that with Pippen and Jackson in Chicago, and Lebron only really had it with his mediocre supporting cast in his first stint in Cleveland.

    You could argue it's less impressive because he jumped ship for greener pastures a couple of times. Or you could argue it's more impressive because he's never had longterm continuity like what other all-time greats have had.

    Consider that of the other three guys I mentioned, Russell and Jones accomplished that feat together surrounded by other all stars and an all-time great coach their whole careers, and eight of Kareem's 10 came playing with Magic and a star-studded cast in LA.

    Lebron's adaptability and ability to attract talent to his teams definitely helps his legacy in my book.
    He only jumped ship for greener pastures once, to Miami imo

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  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    You need to talk to Ewing. Apparently AD specifically requested a trade to LA to team up with LeBron. Also, apparently Bosh and Wade all agreed to team up in Miami far before the decision, so it's not like Bosh went there not knowing whether LeBron would go or not.
    You donít think LeBron and AD orchestrated a team up?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by JordansBulls View Post
    You can have the debates just like Wilt, Russell, Kareem and even Magic to some degree are in the debate. But no one from 1984 until whenever will surpass MJ as the GOAT as a consensus unless they end up with more titles/finals mvp's. I know Russell has the titles but remember it was only 2 series to win back then for a title. Since 1984 you needed to win 4 series a year for a title.
    Your most coherent and fairly accurate post in years.
    Last edited by Chronz; 10-09-2020 at 10:23 PM.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    He only jumped ship for greener pastures once, to Miami imo

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    Greater than Cleveland? lol is that really saying anything.

    Imagine how easy life would have been in Chicago tho, him and Bosh or him and Wade there would've been insane. Really wish Wade wanted that hometown ring too.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Greater than Cleveland? lol is that really saying anything.

    Imagine how easy life would have been in Chicago tho, him and Bosh or him and Wade there would've been insane. Really wish Wade wanted that hometown ring too.
    Yeah that would've been insane! I really thought we were gonna get him too.

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  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Also, apparently Bosh and Wade all agreed to team up in Miami far before the decision, so it's not like Bosh went there not knowing whether LeBron would go or not.
    That's actually true and it makes things even worse for all three individuals concerned.

    Lots of minus points on legacy, especially with that atrocious 50% win rate in 4 years when the expectation was 4/4 at least. And according to themselves, 7+...

  10. #205
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    Very interesting discussion!

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    Despite everything going on in China LeBron was still able to be 1 assist away from a triple double tonight, very impressive.
    What happened in China?


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  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    In the spirit of objectivity, LeBron sh--s on MJ's longevity record though. And if I was good enough to play in the NBA, I'd rather play with LeBron even though he is the 2nd best player.
    Why the hell would you think that he is just the second best player in the team?
    look at his numbers


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  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    He attracts talent?

    He joined Miami, not the other way around. So he joined a team that already had Wade and Bosh. Ray Allen joined them later on, but he was what? 37?

    Which elite talent did he attract? Anthony Davis was acquired via trade by the way. Yeah, he requested a trade but even with the latest news we have no evidence that he explicitly demanded to be traded to the Lakers but to a team that had chances to compete for the championship.

    I'd honestly love to see the list of solid players that joined Lebron's team on their own accord, or pushed for a trade.
    I think Davis and Love alone would be enough to prove the point. Even if they were acquired via trade, they were trades I have no doubt he helped orchestrate.

    Also, "talent" doesn't even mean top end talent. I was referring more to the high-quality pieces that end up signing with his teams to play for a discount, like Mike Miller, Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Dwight Howard, Markieff Morris, etc. Lebron joins a team, and immediately anybody looking to win a title hops on board. How many times have we seen that?

    Also, I had a whole post talking about continuity vs. team jumping that was really more the crux of the conversation. Why narrow in on this single point? The other discussion is way more interesting.


  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    He only jumped ship for greener pastures once, to Miami imo

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    I think anybody who saw how that Heat team was looking at the time would have looked at the Cavs with a young Kyrie and draft assets and felt like it was a better situation. It was certainly close at least and I still enjoyed his letter and the narrative behind that decision to go back home, but the Cavs had more potential than the Heat did back then.


  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I think Davis and Love alone would be enough to prove the point. Even if they were acquired via trade, they were trades I have no doubt he helped orchestrate.

    Also, "talent" doesn't even mean top end talent. I was referring more to the high-quality pieces that end up signing with his teams to play for a discount, like Mike Miller, Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Dwight Howard, Markieff Morris, etc. Lebron joins a team, and immediately anybody looking to win a title hops on board. How many times have we seen that?

    Also, I had a whole post talking about continuity vs. team jumping that was really more the crux of the conversation. Why narrow in on this single point? The other discussion is way more interesting.
    He is good at colluding to get other stars and then attracts mercenaries looking for a ring. Itís works bc he is great still The fact players generally donít grow under him and franchises are set up only for the short term with him is a negative imo


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

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