Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    13,275

    Should a pitcher be eligible for MVP and Cy Young?

    Should pitchers be eligible to win the MVP award. The most common argument says pitchers already have their own award in the Cy Young, so the MVP should be reserved for position players.

    That is one way to argue the point. The MVP voting rules explicitly say pitchers are eligible for the award.

    This is a perennial debate, Bieber's stellar performance has it resurfacing this season. We, the PSD faithful will definitively decide and hence forth it shall be law. What say you PSD?
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    “The greatest menace to freedom is an inert people.” - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Somewhere within the transmutation of Yin and Yang
    Posts
    36,265
    Yes. But they would need to be absurdly dominant. For a starter, they'd need to absolutely destroy it. Sub 2.5 era, tons of innings, compete games, wins. Randy Johnson 2002, Pedro 99, MAddux 95. That type of season.

    And for the record, I think Mo should have had both. I think 99, 08 and 09 were all legit years for him to win.

    I would go with Pedro over Mo for 99 is the Sox had won it. But Mo was absurd int the playoffs so I'd give it to him
    Last edited by Kinkotheclown; 09-24-2020 at 10:09 AM.



    Ignorance is bliss

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    13,275
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Yes. But they would need to be absurdly dominant.
    I think Mo should have had both.
    Kershaw type dominance?

    I agree on Mo, '96 regular season, '99 post season, 2003 ALCS, just too many dominant moments to ignore.
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    “The greatest menace to freedom is an inert people.” - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    54,250
    Absolutely.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    54,250
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Yes. But they would need to be absurdly dominant. For a starter, they'd need to absolutely destroy it. Sub 2.5 era, tons of innings, compete games, wins. Randy Johnson 2002, Pedro 99, MAddux 95. That type of season.

    And for the record, I think Mo should have had both. I think 99, 08 and 09 were all legit years for him to win.

    I would go with Pedro over Mo for 99 is the Sox had won it. But Mo was absurd int the playoffs so I'd give it to him
    Playoffs are 100% irrelevant to Cy Young and MVP voting (not an opinion but an actual fact).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    3,999
    Hitters can win the batting race, home run race, and they can be MVP, why not pitcher ?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Somewhere within the transmutation of Yin and Yang
    Posts
    36,265
    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Playoffs are 100% irrelevant to Cy Young and MVP voting (not an opinion but an actual fact).
    I know. It was a hindsight kind of think looking at both. It would be tough to give it to Mo over Pedro without that.



    Ignorance is bliss

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    54,250
    Quote Originally Posted by flimflamman View Post
    Hitters can win the batting race, home run race, and they can be MVP, why not pitcher ?
    Pitchers can absolutely be MVP and I for one have no issue with that. I'd vote for Bieber to take down both AL Cy Young and AL MVP this year actually.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    7,695
    If a pitcher can win MVP then a hitter should be a consideration for the Cy young. Nuff said.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    3,999
    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Pitchers can absolutely be MVP and I for one have no issue with that. I'd vote for Bieber to take down both AL Cy Young and AL MVP this year actually.
    I agree. Maybe more pitchers ahould win. Even closers

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    13,275
    Imo it boils down to the "V". How valuable was the player to team success and to the game. How dominant was the performance? The Cy Young Award wasn’t established until 1956, and only 11 pitchers have gone on to win both in the same season. But even prior, it was still a significant deal if a pitcher took home the MVP hardware.

    Some notable examples:

    Kershaw in 2014. Kershaw, missed several starts, but still threw 198 1/3 innings and compiled a 1.77 ERA and a 197 ERA+, both of which were at the time tied for the 15th-best mark in the Modern Era. He also threw a no-hitter against the Rockies . 7.7 WAR, 21-3, 1.77 ERA, 197 ERA+, 0.857 WHIP

    Verlander in 2011. He became the first American League pitcher to accumulate 24 wins and 250 strikeouts while posting an ERA of 2.40 or lower. Verlander also no-hit the Blue Jays. 8.6 WAR, 24-5, 2.40 ERA, 251 IP, 0.920 WHIP

    Eckersly 1992. Eck’s 51 saves were the second-most in history at the time, and though his 1.91 ERA was impressive yet far off from the 0.61 mark he posted in ’90. 51 SV, 1.91 ERA, 3.6% BB rate

    There are many others in the BB annals.

    Roger Clemens, BOS, 1986
    Notable numbers: 8.8 WAR, 24-4, 2.48 ERA, 169 ERA+, 2.81 FIP

    Willie Hernandez, DET, 1984
    Notable numbers: 1.92 ERA, 204 ERA+, 32 SV, 80 G, 140 1/3 IP

    Rollie Fingers, MIL, 1981
    Notable numbers: 4.2 WAR, 28 SV, 1.04 ERA, 333 ERA+

    Vida Blue, OAK, 1971
    Notable numbers: 9.0 WAR, 24-8, 1.82 ERA, 312 IP, 8 SHO

    Denny McLain, DET, 1968
    Notable numbers: 7.4 WAR, 31-6, 1.96 ERA

    Bob Gibson, STL, 1968
    Notable numbers: 11.2 WAR, 22-9, 1.12 ERA, 0.853 WHIP, 13 SHO

    Sandy Koufax, LAD, 1963
    Notable numbers: 10.7 WAR, 25-5, 1.88 ERA, 11 SHO, 382 K, 0.875 WHIP
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    “The greatest menace to freedom is an inert people.” - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    54,250
    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    If a pitcher can win MVP then a hitter should be a consideration for the Cy young. Nuff said.
    Lofl that makes zero sense unless it's an Ohtani or Ruth type of two way player.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •