Should a pitcher be eligible for MVP and Cy Young?

[drt1010]

Should pitchers be eligible to win the MVP award. The most common argument says pitchers already have their own award in the Cy Young, so the MVP should be reserved for position players.

That is one way to argue the point. The MVP voting rules explicitly say pitchers are eligible for the award.

This is a perennial debate, Bieber's stellar performance has it resurfacing this season. We, the PSD faithful will definitively decide and hence forth it shall be law. What say you PSD?

[Kinkotheclown]

Yes. But they would need to be absurdly dominant. For a starter, they'd need to absolutely destroy it. Sub 2.5 era, tons of innings, compete games, wins. Randy Johnson 2002, Pedro 99, MAddux 95. That type of season.

And for the record, I think Mo should have had both. I think 99, 08 and 09 were all legit years for him to win.

I would go with Pedro over Mo for 99 is the Sox had won it. But Mo was absurd int the playoffs so I'd give it to him

[drt1010]

Yes. But they would need to be absurdly dominant.
I think Mo should have had both.

Kershaw type dominance?

I agree on Mo, '96 regular season, '99 post season, 2003 ALCS, just too many dominant moments to ignore.

[spliff(TONE)]

Absolutely.

[spliff(TONE)]

Yes. But they would need to be absurdly dominant. For a starter, they'd need to absolutely destroy it. Sub 2.5 era, tons of innings, compete games, wins. Randy Johnson 2002, Pedro 99, MAddux 95. That type of season.

And for the record, I think Mo should have had both. I think 99, 08 and 09 were all legit years for him to win.

I would go with Pedro over Mo for 99 is the Sox had won it. But Mo was absurd int the playoffs so I'd give it to him

Playoffs are 100% irrelevant to Cy Young and MVP voting (not an opinion but an actual fact).

[flimflamman]

Hitters can win the batting race, home run race, and they can be MVP, why not pitcher ?

[Kinkotheclown]

Playoffs are 100% irrelevant to Cy Young and MVP voting (not an opinion but an actual fact).

I know. It was a hindsight kind of think looking at both. It would be tough to give it to Mo over Pedro without that.

[spliff(TONE)]

Hitters can win the batting race, home run race, and they can be MVP, why not pitcher ?

Pitchers can absolutely be MVP and I for one have no issue with that. I'd vote for Bieber to take down both AL Cy Young and AL MVP this year actually.

[Webslinger]

If a pitcher can win MVP then a hitter should be a consideration for the Cy young. Nuff said.

[flimflamman]

Pitchers can absolutely be MVP and I for one have no issue with that. I'd vote for Bieber to take down both AL Cy Young and AL MVP this year actually.

I agree. Maybe more pitchers ahould win. Even closers

[drt1010]

Imo it boils down to the "V". How valuable was the player to team success and to the game. How dominant was the performance? The Cy Young Award wasn’t established until 1956, and only 11 pitchers have gone on to win both in the same season. But even prior, it was still a significant deal if a pitcher took home the MVP hardware.

Some notable examples:

Kershaw in 2014. Kershaw, missed several starts, but still threw 198 1/3 innings and compiled a 1.77 ERA and a 197 ERA+, both of which were at the time tied for the 15th-best mark in the Modern Era. He also threw a no-hitter against the Rockies . 7.7 WAR, 21-3, 1.77 ERA, 197 ERA+, 0.857 WHIP

Verlander in 2011. He became the first American League pitcher to accumulate 24 wins and 250 strikeouts while posting an ERA of 2.40 or lower. Verlander also no-hit the Blue Jays. 8.6 WAR, 24-5, 2.40 ERA, 251 IP, 0.920 WHIP

Eckersly 1992. Eck’s 51 saves were the second-most in history at the time, and though his 1.91 ERA was impressive yet far off from the 0.61 mark he posted in ’90. 51 SV, 1.91 ERA, 3.6% BB rate

There are many others in the BB annals.

Roger Clemens, BOS, 1986
Notable numbers: 8.8 WAR, 24-4, 2.48 ERA, 169 ERA+, 2.81 FIP

Willie Hernandez, DET, 1984
Notable numbers: 1.92 ERA, 204 ERA+, 32 SV, 80 G, 140 1/3 IP

Rollie Fingers, MIL, 1981
Notable numbers: 4.2 WAR, 28 SV, 1.04 ERA, 333 ERA+

Vida Blue, OAK, 1971
Notable numbers: 9.0 WAR, 24-8, 1.82 ERA, 312 IP, 8 SHO

Denny McLain, DET, 1968
Notable numbers: 7.4 WAR, 31-6, 1.96 ERA

Bob Gibson, STL, 1968
Notable numbers: 11.2 WAR, 22-9, 1.12 ERA, 0.853 WHIP, 13 SHO

Sandy Koufax, LAD, 1963
Notable numbers: 10.7 WAR, 25-5, 1.88 ERA, 11 SHO, 382 K, 0.875 WHIP

[spliff(TONE)]

If a pitcher can win MVP then a hitter should be a consideration for the Cy young. Nuff said.

Lofl that makes zero sense unless it's an Ohtani or Ruth type of two way player.