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  1. #31
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    annnnnd just like that, another thread is turned into a PHI vs DAL, Wentz vs Prescott debate.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigers.6 View Post
    annnnnd just like that, another thread is turned into a PHI vs DAL, Wentz vs Prescott debate.
    Give some other good examples. Iím willing to talk about any QB.

    How Jimmy Garoppolo? I honestly do not know much about how heís played. I donít watch a lot of San Fran games. I believe heís played well he just gets hurt a lot. Got hurt in the game this past week too. Was it his shoulder?

    They can get out from under JGís contract after this season. He will only cost $2M in dead money. Do they do that though if heís played well? They could roll the dice and trade him.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Give some other good examples. Iím willing to talk about any QB.

    How Jimmy Garoppolo? I honestly do not know much about how heís played. I donít watch a lot of San Fran games. I believe heís played well he just gets hurt a lot. Got hurt in the game this past week too. Was it his shoulder?

    They can get out from under JGís contract after this season. He will only cost $2M in dead money. Do they do that though if heís played well? They could roll the dice and trade him.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    haha just busting chops, didn't realize that the example in the first post referenced those 2 QBs. Hence the ensuing conversation.

    In regards to other examples I suppose I would look at the young starting QBs whose contracts are up in 2022. You have:

    Baker Mayfield
    Sam Darnold
    Josh Allen

    Of those 3 I would most likely be on board with signing Josh Allen to his next contract. The other 2 I would honestly just let walk and try and find something else via the draft. Spend the money elsewhere.

    Starting QBs whose contracts are up in 2023:

    Kirk Cousins
    Jimmy Garoppolo
    Derek Carr
    Kyler Murray
    Daniel Jones
    Dwayne Haskins
    Drew Lock
    Gardner Minshew

    This batch gets a little bit more tricky in my opinion but I believe I would take the same approach. Let majority of them walk and spend the money elsewhere. I'm a Lions fan and while I think Stafford is a good QB he (the team) hasn't brought anything to Detroit in terms of success. Go back in time and without a doubt I'd be yelling to let him walk and not sign him to not just 1, but 2, enormous deals. Of the above batch I'd probably try and move forward with Murray and Carr.

    Not the most popular of opinions but being a Detroit fan I feel like we have had our fair share of giving players a ton of money for what they've done in the past and then seeing nothing come of it down the road.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    You may have missed it, but the Eagles drafted a replacement QB before the "2 games" this season, due to already having doubts.
    Prove he was drafted to be his replacement.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Prove he was drafted to be his replacement.
    Well is pretty obvious they had some form of doubt. Whether it be his play or injury.
    I think they drafted him as insurance personally knowing Wentz injury history.
    Is it not every teams wish that their draft picks become starters? Especially first and second round picks? Their younger and cheaper.

  6. #36
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    NFL QB Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Prove he was drafted to be his replacement.
    I donít think he was necessarily drafted to be wentz replacement but I do think he was drafted because wentz does seem to get injured a lot. If wentz gets injured again hurts can come in, show his potential and improve his value around the league, and then eagles can flip him for more value next year in a year that teams may be desperate for young talent at QB. Or, thereís also the potential that the eagles prefer the younger/cheaper hurts long term and try to trade wentz

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    You may have missed it, but the Eagles drafted a replacement QB before the "2 games" this season, due to already having doubts.
    Bruh, I talked about Hurts in the same comment right after the one sentence you quoted.

    Seriously, why are you the way you are?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Yet managed to outplay Dak, the week 3 mvp.
    Outplayed Dak in 2019? Less yards, less yards per attempt, less TDs passing, less TDs running, lower Passer rating, lower QBR, lower completion percentage. But there was one more win so I will give him that.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    Outplayed Dak in 2019? Less yards, less yards per attempt, less TDs passing, less TDs running, lower Passer rating, lower QBR, lower completion percentage. But there was one more win so I will give him that.
    Ya but the problem is that your talking about reality. Heís more interested in theory. In a parallel universe where the eagles surrounded Wentz with better weapons he surely would of been better.
    No matter how overwhelming the stats, the he does more with less argument trumps all.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigers.6 View Post
    haha just busting chops, didn't realize that the example in the first post referenced those 2 QBs. Hence the ensuing conversation.

    In regards to other examples I suppose I would look at the young starting QBs whose contracts are up in 2022. You have:

    Baker Mayfield
    Sam Darnold
    Josh Allen

    Of those 3 I would most likely be on board with signing Josh Allen to his next contract. The other 2 I would honestly just let walk and try and find something else via the draft. Spend the money elsewhere.

    Starting QBs whose contracts are up in 2023:

    Kirk Cousins
    Jimmy Garoppolo
    Derek Carr
    Kyler Murray
    Daniel Jones
    Dwayne Haskins
    Drew Lock
    Gardner Minshew

    This batch gets a little bit more tricky in my opinion but I believe I would take the same approach. Let majority of them walk and spend the money elsewhere. I'm a Lions fan and while I think Stafford is a good QB he (the team) hasn't brought anything to Detroit in terms of success. Go back in time and without a doubt I'd be yelling to let him walk and not sign him to not just 1, but 2, enormous deals. Of the above batch I'd probably try and move forward with Murray and Carr.

    Not the most popular of opinions but being a Detroit fan I feel like we have had our fair share of giving players a ton of money for what they've done in the past and then seeing nothing come of it down the road.
    Has Darnold been that bad that the Jets would move on from him? I know the Jets are not exactly lighting the NFL on fire but has he look that bad?

    Josh Allen definitely gets resigned, not so sure about Baker though. I donít catch a lot of Browns games but everything I hear about Baker isnít good.

    Carr is an interesting one. The Raiders are going to be good enough that they will not be in a position to take a QB high in the draft. I know Gruden is supposedly enamored with Mariota but if Carr continues to play well Gruden is going to have to choose between to the two.


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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Ya but the problem is that your talking about reality. Heís more interested in theory. In a parallel universe where the eagles surrounded Wentz with better weapons he surely would of been better.
    No matter how overwhelming the stats, the he does more with less argument trumps all.
    Should a player, surrounded by better players, produce better counting stats? yes or no?

  12. #42
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    My issue with qb contracts is a new qb was resetting the market every year. And those qbs weren't even top 5 int he NFL. I get it from a business standpoint of having a "franchise qb" behind center to put butts in the seats but from a trying to contend for a Super bowl, I think it's a terrible decision. I believe there was a notion among GMs that they need to pay their qb now before the price tag increases with the salary cap continually increasing each year. If you parlay that notion with waiting to logn to extend or being int he 5th year option already then the qb has all the leverage with the team having none. A la the Skins with Cousins and now Dallas with Dak.
    R. Wilson
    P. Mahomes
    A. Rodgers
    Those are the 3 franchise qbs on huge contracts I think are worth it.
    Wentz
    Goff
    Ryan
    Brees
    Jimmy G
    Cousins
    Stafford
    Terrible contracts for trying to win a Super Bowl but good from a business stand point in filling the seats (except this year)

    If I'm a GM and am unsure if my qb is a franchise qb then I look to trade him in their 4th year (if taken in 1st round) If not you run the likely risk of overpaying for the same production if not, less.

    Obviously it's tougher than just saying trade them in their 4th year. The head coach, GM and owner all have to e on the same page. With the frequent turnover of head coaches within the first 3-5 yr window, being able to have a "franchise qb" kinda buys them a little more time.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Should a player, surrounded by better players, produce better counting stats? yes or no?
    Yes. But you canít use that to rationalize everything. Thatís why I always ask whatís the handicap? I have zero interest on what theoretically Wentz stats would be like if he had better players.
    There is a big gap between Mahomes and Wentz. Of course if we use our imagination and make them switch teams that gap would be less but this sort of thinking is an exercise in futility.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Should a player, surrounded by better players, produce better counting stats? yes or no?
    Great question. I answer Yes.

    I also ask the question. If we have to surround you with great talent at wr, rb, and o line then why do I need to pay you $35 mil a year? Let's use Dallas as an example. I'd take Dalton at $3mil all day over Dak at $31 mil. If I can get 75% of the production (counting stats) at 10% of the cost that's a no brainier. Then draft a qb next year while resigning Dalton to say maybe $10 mil a year. if he succeeds

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigers.6 View Post
    haha just busting chops, didn't realize that the example in the first post referenced those 2 QBs. Hence the ensuing conversation.

    In regards to other examples I suppose I would look at the young starting QBs whose contracts are up in 2022. You have:

    Baker Mayfield
    Sam Darnold
    Josh Allen

    Of those 3 I would most likely be on board with signing Josh Allen to his next contract. The other 2 I would honestly just let walk and try and find something else via the draft. Spend the money elsewhere.

    Starting QBs whose contracts are up in 2023:

    Kirk Cousins
    Jimmy Garoppolo
    Derek Carr
    Kyler Murray
    Daniel Jones
    Dwayne Haskins
    Drew Lock
    Gardner Minshew

    This batch gets a little bit more tricky in my opinion but I believe I would take the same approach. Let majority of them walk and spend the money elsewhere. I'm a Lions fan and while I think Stafford is a good QB he (the team) hasn't brought anything to Detroit in terms of success. Go back in time and without a doubt I'd be yelling to let him walk and not sign him to not just 1, but 2, enormous deals. Of the above batch I'd probably try and move forward with Murray and Carr.

    Not the most popular of opinions but being a Detroit fan I feel like we have had our fair share of giving players a ton of money for what they've done in the past and then seeing nothing come of it down the road.
    Ive always been interested to see if a team would ever try to build a team around rookie qb after rookie qb. No team would every do it because it's risky, but Buffalo would be a really good team to try it. Maybe you have to franchise a guy once and awhile, but building a really, really talented team around a qb and just replacing the qb could work, especially if you have a strong defense and solid running game.

    I was a fan of Hurts in this draft, but what if Buffalo drafted Hurts this past draft, let him develop for a year, then traded Allen next year for likely a decent haul and plugged hurts in. Then, in 3 years, do it again by drafting Hurts replacement and either trade hurts or let him walk.

    To be fair, especially on the lions front, the issue has mostly been drafting though to be honest. It's not like they've had to let really talented players walk due to Stafford's contract. They just haven't had a talented team. And usually you aren't building a great team through FA, even if you're not spending big on a qb. You pretty much need to build through the draft and supplement with FA. Not trying to **** on lions fans, but the complete lack of impact players despite generally picking fairly high.

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