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  1. #91
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    lol I thought this was the game thread.
    Last edited by QB_Eagles; 09-27-2020 at 02:21 PM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    what about the weapons?
    The claim was it is impossible for Wentz to succeed due to his o-line, when Rodgers does just fine with a comparable o-line. Rodgers top RB and WR are better than the Eagles top RB and WR though.

    We saw Rodgers did just fine with D Adams out and a poor showing from A Jones though. Allen Lazard, Robert Tonyan Jr, and Marcedes Lewis were enough to beat the Saints. Surely worse than the Eagles set.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 1188 @ 67.1%, 8.3 per att, 5 TD, 2 (1.4%) INT, 98.5 Rate 76.7 QBR
    Wentz: 737 @ 59.8%, 5.6 per att, 3 TD, 6 INT (4.5%), 63.9 Rate 35.5 QBR


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    The claim was it is impossible for Wentz to succeed due to his o-line, when Rodgers does just fine with a comparable o-line. Rodgers top RB and WR are better than the Eagles top RB and WR though.

    We saw Rodgers did just fine with D Adams out and a poor showing from A Jones though. Allen Lazard, Robert Tonyan Jr, and Marcedes Lewis were enough to beat the Saints. Surely worse than the Eagles set.
    Not impossible, nobody thinks that.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    There are as many people here arguing Wentz should be top 5 all time as Rodgers.

    NFL.com has Rodgers 10th. Can't even beat out Brees.

    https://www.nfl.com/news/top-25-quar...p3000001035041



    Rodgers has time to change the narrative, but he just hasn't had the results to even justify 10th, IMO. Flashes here and there, with injuries and average play in between. Even moreso than Peyton "One and Done" Manning.
    No there isnt.

    Wherever you want to rank Rodgers, hes in the top QBs of all time discussion whereas Wentz is not.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    The claim was it is impossible for Wentz to succeed due to his o-line, when Rodgers does just fine with a comparable o-line. Rodgers top RB and WR are better than the Eagles top RB and WR though.

    We saw Rodgers did just fine with D Adams out and a poor showing from A Jones though. Allen Lazard, Robert Tonyan Jr, and Marcedes Lewis were enough to beat the Saints. Surely worse than the Eagles set.
    Again, until Wentz starts getting compared To Rodgers (he isnt unless you can prove it on these boards) what an all time great does and has been doing for his career doesnt make sense comparing to Wentz.

    I and everyone else should expect Rodgers to outperform Wentz in any area.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  6. #96
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    I am confused.... are we saying there are many people saying that wentz would be better than rodgers this year? because no duh... alot of those people were packers fans as well... hell many of us have become annoyed with rodgers because of his scared play the last 2 years... it seems like it was more of a system thing and now that he is use to the system he has looked better but rodgers to most was barely going to be a top 10 QB this year and the reasoning was understandable


    wentz is having a bad few games and last year he did well but nothing special but 3 of the last 4 years with limited help before injuries he put up almost 11k yards with 81 touchdowns to 21 interceptions and he had half the weapons the cowboys had.... Will wentz be great? who knows but holy crap i have never seen so many jump off the wagon for a QB after 3 games.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    I am confused.... are we saying there are many people saying that wentz would be better than rodgers this year? because no duh... alot of those people were packers fans as well... hell many of us have become annoyed with rodgers because of his scared play the last 2 years... it seems like it was more of a system thing and now that he is use to the system he has looked better but rodgers to most was barely going to be a top 10 QB this year and the reasoning was understandable


    wentz is having a bad few games and last year he did well but nothing special but 3 of the last 4 years with limited help before injuries he put up almost 11k yards with 81 touchdowns to 21 interceptions and he had half the weapons the cowboys had.... Will wentz be great? who knows but holy crap i have never seen so many jump off the wagon for a QB after 3 games.
    Rodgers has never really had good weapons. Hes always made the best of them.

    Im not even talking just this year but considering how great Rodgers is and how hes done well with **** in the last (even last year) it wouldve been a safer bet to pick Rodgers or Wentz in the who would perform better with **** WR game.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Rodgers has never really had good weapons. Hes always made the best of them.

    Im not even talking just this year but considering how great Rodgers is and how hes done well with **** in the last (even last year) it wouldve been a safer bet to pick Rodgers or Wentz in the who would perform better with **** WR game.


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    It's somewhat irrelevant to the discussion, but the Rodgers has never had weapons arc is so strange and wrong. The last 3ish years have been ugly, but prior to that he had incredible weapons most of the time.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Rodgers has never really had good weapons. Hes always made the best of them.

    Im not even talking just this year but considering how great Rodgers is and how hes done well with **** in the last (even last year) it wouldve been a safer bet to pick Rodgers or Wentz in the who would perform better with **** WR game.


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    Adams, Nelson, Cobb, Finley, and Jennings are nothing to sneeze at. You could argue that's three top 10 WRs, an upper tier slot WR, and a top 5 TE before injury.

    And that's not even mentioning his elite pass blocking OLs.

  10. #100
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    Ill reply to you both with this.

    Hes definitely had some top weapons but outside of Nelson and Adams Id feel safe to say hes made those other weapons. Hes also not really had an overall balanced offense.

    Never really had top end guys in multiple areas like a lot of other top QBs have had. Never really had a solid running game until the last couple years, never really had a top TE (Finley had like one good year?). Hes usually always had a top WR and solid oline (but usually never consistent).

    I undersold his weapons but I still think comparatively to other of the games all time great QBs I feel hes done more with less.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Ill reply to you both with this.

    Hes definitely had some top weapons but outside of Nelson and Adams Id feel safe to say hes made those other weapons. Hes also not really had an overall balanced offense.

    Never really had top end guys in multiple areas like a lot of other top QBs have had. Never really had a solid running game until the last couple years, never really had a top TE (Finley had like one good year?). Hes usually always had a top WR and solid oline (but usually never consistent).

    I undersold his weapons but I still think comparatively to other of the games all time great QBs I feel hes done more with less.


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    I'll make the argument for the players I listed:

    1.) Finley was definitely an upper tier TE. He wasn't in Gronk/Olsen/Graham territory, but he was in that second tier. His issue was health, hence why he retired so young. His last year he was playing at a 800 yard, 8 TD pace. His 16 game average across his last 5 years was 775 yards, 5 TDs. And that includes a lot of partial games.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...F/FinlJe00.htm

    2.) Cobb just had a 850 yard seasons with the Cowboys at age 30 last season in his first year there. In a limited role he's at 177 yards for the Texans this year. He's had some down years but he was still a solid weapon.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...C/CobbRa00.htm

    3.) Greg Jennings routinely was a 1200+ yard receiver in his prime and then ended his career with injuries in MIN with no QB and still put up ~800 yards, 5 TDs in each of his years there.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...J/JennGr00.htm

  12. #102
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    Update: I also didn't realize he had a couple years of Donald Driver's back-end prime in 2008/2009. He was more limited in 2010 and 2011, but that's another weapon he had for some length of time.

  13. #103
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    Finley barely played more than 3 seasons. I mean sure he was a good target when healthy but he was so unreliable outside a couple seasons.

    Jennings - honestly forgot how good of seasons he had outside Rodgers.

    Cobb is one of those guys who was solid like you said. I think he, along with these other two, were mainly elevated by Rodgers though.

    Im not arguing anymore that he didnt have weapons, just comparing consistency with weapons comparable to other greats.

    And again thats forgetting about his running game.

    In the era of QBs hes in, Id argue Brees, Manning, Ben, tail end of Warner, Rivers, Romo all had overall better surrounding talent and consistency with it.

    All of them outside of Brady had good running games as well.

    I just feel the argument would be that if you give lesser talent to play with Rodgers is going to have more success. This was based off how poor Wentz has been comparing him to Rodgers. Its dumb to compare that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Finley barely played more than 3 seasons. I mean sure he was a good target when healthy but he was so unreliable outside a couple seasons.

    Jennings - honestly forgot how good of seasons he had outside Rodgers.

    Cobb is one of those guys who was solid like you said. I think he, along with these other two, were mainly elevated by Rodgers though.

    Im not arguing anymore that he didnt have weapons, just comparing consistency with weapons comparable to other greats.

    And again thats forgetting about his running game.

    In the era of QBs hes in, Id argue Brees, Manning, Ben, tail end of Warner, Rivers, Romo all had overall better surrounding talent and consistency with it.

    All of them outside of Brady had good running games as well.

    I just feel the argument would be that if you give lesser talent to play with Rodgers is going to have more success. This was based off how poor Wentz has been comparing him to Rodgers. Its dumb to compare that.


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    But that also ignores OLs. Warner, Rivers, and Romo had pretty bad OLs most of their careers. I'm not sure that I'd say Brady, Rivers or Romo had better weapons either.

    It's also worth noting that almost nobody has any of the QBs above (minus Peyton/Brady) in elite territory, unlike Rodgers who was the best QB for like 5 years. He obviously makes his receivers better, because that's what elite guys do.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Adams, Nelson, Cobb, Finley, and Jennings are nothing to sneeze at. You could argue that's three top 10 WRs, an upper tier slot WR, and a top 5 TE before injury.

    And that's not even mentioning his elite pass blocking OLs.
    What were their yard total ranks for their seasons not playing with Rodgers?
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 1188 @ 67.1%, 8.3 per att, 5 TD, 2 (1.4%) INT, 98.5 Rate 76.7 QBR
    Wentz: 737 @ 59.8%, 5.6 per att, 3 TD, 6 INT (4.5%), 63.9 Rate 35.5 QBR


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

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