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  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    No, you think I am a Trump fanboy because there are 100 leftists here and like 5 people defending Trump so on a magnified view, someone who seems to defend Trump more often than not, according to you, is a Trump fanboy. In reality, I stated that Trump handled COVID poorly and deserved blame.



    Here is me from yesterday saying Trump had a lot of blunders and deserved the blame for it. Just because I defended Trump on one aspect of COVID response doesn't mean I am defending his overall COVID response. He did some good and some bad. You guys make it seem like EVERYTHING he did was bad when that's a short-sighted view of the entire picture.



    Here is me just a few hours ago saying Trump is getting too much credit for the 3Q economy.

    You have no clue what you are talking about. Thank you for your concerns, though.
    We were pointing out actual things he had done bad and the timeline around it lol. You were fighting against it with multiple people. As I noted you can state he is bad a couple times but it doesn't change other conversations (just like the poster I referenced who says "see I don't always support Trump" then goes into his rants).*

    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    I hate to break it to ya but the average person does not have a proper sequence of events as to what had happened. I can bet ya if Obama was the president and 200k deaths had passed, the outlook on the presidency would look a lot different than it is now. Both sides would flip the switch with Republicans attacking Obama response and Democrats defending it. It's just how it works. We would be stupid to not think that doesn't play a role with how divided this country is. Think about it: More Republicans believe Trump did a better job handling COVID-19 than Democrats do. Same people just with a different political affiliation. What's the difference? They stick to their preference.
    This is your last response to me, talking about people not knowing the sequence of events and playing but what about Obama despite him having nothing to do with what was being laid out. Even here you made it about the team games while not addressing the clear and obvious issues with Trump. Butwhatabout the dems in hypothetical form isn't an actual response based on reality of what happened it was you deflecting like you did in much of that thread (my response to this post called this out already you just stopped responding so figured maybe you knew it was true).*
    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    1) Lol. Testing takes time. They didn't have enough testing sites available.
    2) He left the choice about masks to local governments.
    3) Lol, how do you know there weren't any regular briefings? He was working with the CDC every day. I remember people were sick of hearing from Trump since he had to do a briefing every day and was on the media.


    Seems to me you could barely name a few things that he 'still hasn't done'.
    Here is your response to Valade pointing out far more than 3 things, you tried downplaying his post because it looked bad for trump but overall he covered plenty himself. I can post the sitewolf portion too if you want. As I noted it is your actual responses to people that are the issue and you showing a different post to a poster not mention doesn't take away from all of the other things you have been posting. Considering the Crovash*one was in this thread I doubt I need to share it again but include that too.

    I do know what I am talking about, it is you trying to deflect away from my actual points. I never claimed that you never said anything bad about Trump, I specifically noted a poster who does that just to say "but look at these posts" while clearly spending the rest of his time trolling left/liberals etc. as an example and you continued that same approach and not addressing my actual points or posts I have referenced.*

  2. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    So why mention specifically Republicans? You aren't making any sense. If he meant both sides, why not just say Democrats and Republicans? My response is not out of context considering he chose to specifically mention ONE party when he in actuality believes BOTH are liars.
    Do you have even the remotest clue as to what generated this discussion? I think not because you did, youíd know then this entire post is utter nonsense.

    Your premise here is a complete fabrication. I NEVER said anyone, republican or democrat, was a ďliar.Ē So, whether I believe one or the other ó or both ó is totally irrelevant.

    I used the context of the recent SCOTUS confirmation, tracked quickly by the republicans in the Senate, to say simply that the statement ďit doesnít really matter what people thinkĒ could be the mantra of the republicans right now. This is a reasonably accurate and defensible observation. Nothing about lying therein.

    That I made no mention of the democrats is, in context totally logical. But, your using that omission as the basis for your assumption that I somehow think Pelosi works for me, is, well, ****ing idiotic.

    Finally, you wonít even own it.

  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    We were pointing out actual things he had done bad and the timeline around it lol. You were fighting against it with multiple people. As I noted you can state he is bad a couple times but it doesn't change other conversations (just like the poster I referenced who says "see I don't always support Trump" then goes into his rants).*



    This is your last response to me, talking about people not knowing the sequence of events and playing but what about Obama despite him having nothing to do with what was being laid out. Even here you made it about the team games while not addressing the clear and obvious issues with Trump. Butwhatabout the dems in hypothetical form isn't an actual response based on reality of what happened it was you deflecting like you did in much of that thread (my response to this post called this out already you just stopped responding so figured maybe you knew it was true).*


    Here is your response to Valade pointing out far more than 3 things, you tried downplaying his post because it looked bad for trump but overall he covered plenty himself. I can post the sitewolf portion too if you want. As I noted it is your actual responses to people that are the issue and you showing a different post to a poster not mention doesn't take away from all of the other things you have been posting. Considering the Crovash*one was in this thread I doubt I need to share it again but include that too.

    I do know what I am talking about, it is you trying to deflect away from my actual points. I never claimed that you never said anything bad about Trump, I specifically noted a poster who does that just to say "but look at these posts" while clearly spending the rest of his time trolling left/liberals etc. as an example and you continued that same approach and not addressing my actual points or posts I have referenced.*
    I mentioned Obama to reference how if the roles are reversed, Democrats would say Obama did a good job while Republicans would say Obama did a terrible job as to demonstrate how politicized COVID has gotten. I actually voted for Obama and thought he was a good president. You can not find me say one negative thing about Obama in the politics thread. Here you are misunderstanding the context behind what I wrote and claim in some way that I was targeting Obama.

    With Valade three points, I never downplayed it. You're just not following what I wrote before so you're trying to nitpick a single post I made and draw inferences from it. You have no idea what you're talking about, really. You called me a Trump fanboy. When does a Trump fanboy criticize Trump like I have done these past two days? You're claiming I'm the strawman creator but you haven't even taken your time to even understand the context behind what is being written.

    Let's look at my post with Valade that you think you 'GOT ME' but in reality, proves what I am saying about you being misunderstanding.

    1) Testing does take time. How am I downplaying it? Does testing not take time to implement on a national scale?
    2) I've already spoken about the mask mandate. I stated before making that post that Trump should have issued a federal mandate but he ultimately left the choice to the states so if the states chose not to implement one of their own, it's on them as well. Purely blaming Trump for people not wearing a mask is not the right approach. State governments exist to PROTECT against federal government intrusion. If the fed government doesn't act, state governments can act themselves.
    3) Valade knows he made a mistake in referencing that they didn't attend the briefings. I simply stated that it wasn't the case. Trump personally didn't attend it but he ordered Mike Pence to be in charge of the briefings and to relay him the info because Trump is trying to win an election.

    So how in any way did I downplay what Trump did? What I am saying is a logical response. You just think everything of the contrary to your belief is downplaying when in reality, people of the other side probably would suggest you are overplaying it.

    Crovash said 'It's the Republicans motto to not care."

    I state that he's a sheep if he believes that both parties care.

    So if he meant both parties, why not mention it in the first place?

    I don't intend to waste my time going back-and-forth with you. I'm just rehashing what I wrote and learning nothing - which is ultimately what a discussion is to be had for. You're just focused on painting me as the Big Bad Trump supporter so there's no sense to make from this.

  4. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    I mentioned Obama to reference how if the roles are reversed, Democrats would say Obama did a good job while Republicans would say Obama did a terrible job as to demonstrate how politicized COVID has gotten. I actually voted for Obama and thought he was a good president. You can not find me say one negative thing about Obama in the politics thread. Here you are misunderstanding the context behind what I wrote and claim in some way that I was targeting Obama.

    With Valade three points, I never downplayed it. You're just not following what I wrote before so you're trying to nitpick a single post I made and draw inferences from it. You have no idea what you're talking about, really. You called me a Trump fanboy. When does a Trump fanboy criticize Trump like I have done these past two days? You're claiming I'm the strawman creator but you haven't even taken your time to even understand the context behind what is being written.

    Let's look at my post with Valade that you think you 'GOT ME' but in reality, proves what I am saying about you being misunderstanding.

    1) Testing does take time. How am I downplaying it? Does testing not take time to implement on a national scale?
    2) I've already spoken about the mask mandate. I stated before making that post that Trump should have issued a federal mandate but he ultimately left the choice to the states so if the states chose not to implement one of their own, it's on them as well. Purely blaming Trump for people not wearing a mask is not the right approach. State governments exist to PROTECT against federal government intrusion. If the fed government doesn't act, state governments can act themselves.
    3) Valade knows he made a mistake in referencing that they didn't attend the briefings. I simply stated that it wasn't the case. Trump personally didn't attend it but he ordered Mike Pence to be in charge of the briefings and to relay him the info because Trump is trying to win an election.

    So how in any way did I downplay what Trump did? What I am saying is a logical response. You just think everything of the contrary to your belief is downplaying when in reality, people of the other side probably would suggest you are overplaying it.

    Crovash said 'It's the Republicans motto to not care."

    I state that he's a sheep if he believes that both parties care.

    So if he meant both parties, why not mention it in the first place?

    I don't intend to waste my time going back-and-forth with you. I'm just rehashing what I wrote and learning nothing - which is ultimately what a discussion is to be had for. You're just focused on painting me as the Big Bad Trump supporter so there's no sense to make from this.
    Yes it is just a hypothetical but what about, I was talking about reality and what has actually happened not my views on the team game. You just tried making it about the team game as I was noting you often do. If I misunderstood then why didn't you correct me previously? Why won't you address what the team game has to do with anything I was noting at the time? I was talking about things that actually happened and you deflected to this team game approach.

    I shared a couple posts just like you shared a couple lol, funny now it's an issue when someone else takes your approach back at you. They are just in the other thread and anyone clicking on the links can follow the conversation themselves which can't be done with a screen shot like you used. I have read everything written and been able to consistently make these points while showing clear strawman from you in this very thread. You are the one regularly deflecting or trying to change standards. To be fair I am not sure you are a Trump fan boy and I should have said at times it looks that way, I was responding to a post saying "you guys think I'm a Trump fan boy" and I have a habit of repeating terms like that so sorry if that was a bit much. My main point there is the reason some might think that is your approach within certain conversations.

    I never said much about your 3 points so this stuff is mostly irrelevant to what I was noting, he called out more than 3 things. I will point out that 1 he was talking about Trumps directive to slow testing and 2 it doesn't take away from Trumps handling just because some others are bad this is a very simple concept you seem to really struggle with. He had more points than that and your literal quote was "you can barely name a few things he still hasn't done" when the reality is he covered a lot of issues and you even supposedly agree with him on more than even just a few so why say that? It seems like downplaying and not addressing the overall issues he pointed out.*
    You once again are making assertions without actually responding to the context here, I think it was downplaying in that thread and within that post for the reasons mentioned not some belief you want to push on me. You do this very often which is also probably why people think you are moreso team game focused than here for rational conversation.

    You actually stated he subscribes to the two party*system and it makes him a big sheep while questioning him if he "really thinks" something about Pelosi he never claimed. It's in this very thread AND already been quoted for you once lol. The issue is you aren't genuine in your responses or this context at all throughout or respond to things actually said. Here I will quote it AGAIN for you:
    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    I hate to break it to you but both parties don't really give a F. This two party system that you subscribe to makes you a real big sheep. Do you really think Nancy Pelosi wakes up thinking about ways to help you? Give me a break.
    If you would just face reality, stop using strawman, stop denying what has actually been posted and respond to my actual points instead of making up your own to argue against this wouldn't be so difficult. I am just here to point out what has actually been happening, sorry if that's an issue for you. Your recap goes against what actually happened at times and doesn't address the issues I have pointed out within some of your posts at all.*

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Yes it is just a hypothetical but what about, I was talking about reality and what has actually happened not my views on the team game. You just tried making it about the team game as I was noting you often do. If I misunderstood then why didn't you correct me previously? Why won't you address what the team game has to do with anything I was noting at the time? I was talking about things that actually happened and you deflected to this team game approach.

    I shared a couple posts just like you shared a couple lol, funny now it's an issue when someone else takes your approach back at you. They are just in the other thread and anyone clicking on the links can follow the conversation themselves which can't be done with a screen shot like you used. I have read everything written and been able to consistently make these points while showing clear strawman from you in this very thread. You are the one regularly deflecting or trying to change standards. To be fair I am not sure you are a Trump fan boy and I should have said at times it looks that way, I was responding to a post saying "you guys think I'm a Trump fan boy" and I have a habit of repeating terms like that so sorry if that was a bit much. My main point there is the reason some might think that is your approach within certain conversations.

    I never said much about your 3 points so this stuff is mostly irrelevant to what I was noting, he called out more than 3 things. I will point out that 1 he was talking about Trumps directive to slow testing and 2 it doesn't take away from Trumps handling just because some others are bad this is a very simple concept you seem to really struggle with. He had more points than that and your literal quote was "you can barely name a few things he still hasn't done" when the reality is he covered a lot of issues and you even supposedly agree with him on more than even just a few so why say that? It seems like downplaying and not addressing the overall issues he pointed out.*
    You once again are making assertions without actually responding to the context here, I think it was downplaying in that thread and within that post for the reasons mentioned not some belief you want to push on me. You do this very often which is also probably why people think you are moreso team game focused than here for rational conversation.*
    You actually stated he subscribes to the two party*system and it makes him a big sheep while questioning him if he "really thinks" something about Pelosi he never claimed. It's in this very thread AND already been quoted for you once lol. The issue is you aren't genuine in your responses or this context at all throughout or respond to things actually said. Here I will quote it AGAIN for you:
    If you would just face reality, stop using strawman, stop denying what has actually been posted and respond to my actual points instead of making up your own to argue against this wouldn't be so difficult. I am just here to point out what has actually been happening, sorry if that's an issue for you. Your recap goes against what actually happened at times and doesn't address the issues I have pointed out within some of your posts at all.*
    Look, I'll cut this short.

    1) I have criticized Trump and I have also defended Trump. This politics subforum is mainly filled with left-leaning subscribers so obviously anyone defending Trump may seem like a Trump fanboy. Why isn't it possible that someone who is DEFENDING Trump for a particular accusation isn't a Trump fanboy but the person shouting the accusation is simply inaccurate?

    2) If I used a Democrat vs Republican aspect, I apologize. But it seems to me that since most posts here are anti-Republican stances, it does paint me as a more 'Republican' defender because I am defending them from what I see are unfair positions.

    3) I mentioned Pelosi because she is arguably the strongest Democratic figure outside of Biden. Surely, before Biden won the Presidential nomination, Pelosi was the strongest because she ran the House of Rep. and thus, has a lot of say in the direction of the Democratic party. But how is it a strawman for me to assume someone who says, "Republicans don't care" isn't subscribing to a two-party system? If the individual thinks both parties don't care, why specifically target Republicans and then for you to accuse me of making it a strawman when he himself chose not to clarify his statement?

    4) I learned nothing from this. It was a waste of time. We can agree to stop this pointless discussion. I'm wrong. You happy? I don't care. Get back to the content or just keep dragging this dead horse further. I'm not gonna entertain it.

  6. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    No. Maher felt that Ruth Bader Ginsberg should have followed Obamaís hint.
    Isn't that what I said.

    You say he hint. I say he suggested. A hiont from the presÖÖit is a pretty fair to assume it was a suggestion/.request.

    Semantics

    potato po tah to

    Neither one of us was there

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    Look, I'll cut this short.

    1) I have criticized Trump and I have also defended Trump. This politics subforum is mainly filled with left-leaning subscribers so obviously anyone defending Trump may seem like a Trump fanboy. Why isn't it possible that someone who is DEFENDING Trump for a particular accusation isn't a Trump fanboy but the person shouting the accusation is simply inaccurate?

    2) If I used a Democrat vs Republican aspect, I apologize. But it seems to me that since most posts here are anti-Republican stances, it does paint me as a more 'Republican' defender because I am defending them from what I see are unfair positions.

    3) I mentioned Pelosi because she is arguably the strongest Democratic figure outside of Biden. Surely, before Biden won the Presidential nomination, Pelosi was the strongest because she ran the House of Rep. and thus, has a lot of say in the direction of the Democratic party. But how is it a strawman for me to assume someone who says, "Republicans don't care" isn't subscribing to a two-party system? If the individual thinks both parties don't care, why specifically target Republicans and then for you to accuse me of making it a strawman when he himself chose not to clarify his statement?

    4) I learned nothing from this. It was a waste of time. We can agree to stop this pointless discussion. I'm wrong. You happy? I don't care. Get back to the content or just keep dragging this dead horse further. I'm not gonna entertain it.
    1. This has been covered plenty with you just repeating it over and over anyways. The issue isn't if you never call out Trump, it is that often within conversations you have defended him against really obvious issues he has had and often deflect into but what about the left in some way in a team game form. Even here you focused on this team game yet again. That's the issue I am noting is the specifics within, I have never once stated that you only agree with Trump so you repeating this over and over is pointless/arguing against something I am not saying.

    2. Your view on the team game seems to influence a lot of your posts. That is likely to make people think it is YOU focused on the team game because... well you have clearly been so. Stop jumping to conclusions about people based of your assumptions about the team game stuff (it leads to strawman, not arguing against things actually said, etc.). If a position is unfair you can call it out without saying but what about or deflecting to the other team, note why that stance is unfair.

    3. Alright but this is yet again showing you viewing things in team game form, not responding to individuals or their points. This is a major issue you keep seeming to have is making up your own arguments to fight against due to the team games when many of us have been individuals making our own points. He has already covered this within the context of the conversation, you can continue asking him about why he did that specifically. It doesn't change that it is a strawman and he actually never said those things you ascribed to him at all. He did clarify his statement above, maybe you missed his post?

    You won't learn anything when your entire focus seems to be ignoring what individuals are saying, the reality of what is being posted and prefer focusing on things in a team game form. If you keep up this approach just don't be surprised when people start assuming it's your own bias causing you to take this approach (not theirs like you keep trying to push at people).

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    1. This has been covered plenty with you just repeating it over and over anyways. The issue isn't if you never call out Trump, it is that often within conversations you have defended him against really obvious issues he has had and often deflect into but what about the left in some way in a team game form. Even here you focused on this team game yet again. That's the issue I am noting is the specifics within, I have never once stated that you only agree with Trump so you repeating this over and over is pointless/arguing against something I am not saying.

    2. Your view on the team game seems to influence a lot of your posts. That is likely to make people think it is YOU focused on the team game because... well you have clearly been so. Stop jumping to conclusions about people based of your assumptions about the team game stuff (it leads to strawman, not arguing against things actually said, etc.). If a position is unfair you can call it out without saying but what about or deflecting to the other team, note why that stance is unfair.

    3. Alright but this is yet again showing you viewing things in team game form not responding to individuals or their points. This is a major issue you keep seeming to have is making up your own arguments to fight against due to the team games when many of us have been individuals making our own points. He has already covered this within the context of the conversation, you can continue asking him about why he did that specifically. It doesn't change that it is a strawman and he actually never said those things you ascribed to him at all. He did clarify his statement above, maybe you missed his post?

    You won't learn anything when your entire focus seems to be ignoring what individuals are saying, the reality of what is being posted and prefer focusing on things in a team game form. If you keep up this approach just don't be surprised when people start assuming it's your own bias causing you to take this approach (not theirs like you keep trying to push at people).
    Thank you for your suggestion and I will surely take it into consideration. Hopefully, what you wrote is not a one-way street and applies to people from BOTH sides. I would suggest we stop commenting on this further. If you have any inquiries of further dilemma, feel free to send me a private message. Otherwise, we are populating this thread with unrelated topics. Thank you once again and have a good day.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    Thank you for your suggestion and I will surely take it into consideration. Hopefully, what you wrote is not a one-way street and applies to people from BOTH sides. I would suggest we stop commenting on this further. If you have any inquiries of further dilemma, feel free to send me a private message. Otherwise, we are populating this thread with unrelated topics. Thank you once again and have a good day.
    It does. I don't respond to everyone (like one of the posters I referenced is a lost cause/arguably trolling) but when I think someone may be capable then I will probably be a bit more harsh and call them out. I think it would be great to keep getting your viewpoints on issues with a little less of the team stuff.

    I am a leftist/liberal/democrat who hates Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and a ton of the establishment democrats/policy which is a majority of the party. Sitewolf is a Republican/Conservative who hates Trump and the current version of the party. Often these labels aren't overall defining at all so it can bother me when capable posters are focused on the teams or needing to say both sides if one is brought up etc. when there is much more nuance than team game focus. You will see people on here trying to own the libs or make it out like all right wingers are racist sure but many are also far more nuanced. We all have bias that may lean a certain way.

    Have a good day yourself.

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Isn't that what I said.

    You say he hint. I say he suggested. A hiont from the presÖÖit is a pretty fair to assume it was a suggestion/.request.

    Semantics

    potato po tah to

    Neither one of us was there
    Oh, sorry. You said ďRuthieĒ. The article did not mention a ďRuthie.Ē

  11. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Oh, sorry. You said ďRuthieĒ. The article did not mention a ďRuthie.Ē
    You drive a Cooper, don't you.

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    You drive a Cooper, don't you.
    Just suggesting a little respect for someone who deserves it, especially in these trashy times.

  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    So why mention specifically Republicans? You aren't making any sense. If he meant both sides, why not just say Democrats and Republicans? My response is not out of context considering he chose to specifically mention ONE party when he in actuality believes BOTH are liars.

    I've actually stated that Trump handled COVID poorly and deserves a lot of blame. I've also stated that Trump's response with the masks was inappropriate. I've also stated that I hoped Trump would have done a federal mask mandate. I've also stated that Trump is getting too much credit for the 3Q economy that he is pushing as his doing. I've also stated that Trump should have never said that it was just like the 'flu.' I've also stated that Trump should have gotten the PPE stocked instead of blaming Obama for leaving it depleted.

    So you're the one who is pushing a strawman argument. Do I defend Trump more often than not? Yes. Because I particularly don't think he's doing as bad of a job that people on the left are claiming. You guys will blame Trump for anything and then get upset when someone of the contrary voices their side but supposedly, we're the Trump apologists? I don't even like Trump. I just never liked Hillary or Biden. I am a registered DEMOCRAT so I could vote for Andrew Yang. You guys just think I'm a Trump fanboy because me and the very few here are the only ones defending him vs ridiculous assumptions made by all 100 of you leftists.

    Go dig through my posts. You'll see I have criticized Trump for his initial Muslim ban, COVID response, and economy that he takes too much credit for. Don't come barging in here because you read a couple of posts of mine and then think you have it all figured out.
    Perhaps there was a miscommunication, but that was definitely not the tenor of your posts with me yesterday. You even asked me what he did wrong and/or what he should have done. It strikes me that someone who believes Trump has not done a good job would not have asked those questions, because they'd know the answers.

    As for your "I don't even like Trump" tenor, just stop. You already said in another thread you are voting for him. You can't question why people are critiquing your support for Trump when you are quite literally voting for him. That is support. If you don't like him, don't vote for him. If you vote for him, understand that means you are supporting him (whether you believe it or not).

  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Just suggesting a little respect for someone who deserves it, especially in these trashy times.
    Sluggo is the king of derogatory nicknames. Perhaps we should invent one for him? Is slavemaster Sluggo over the top?

    Maybe senile sluggo. Look how cool I am for calling him by a nickname!

  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Sluggo is the king of derogatory nicknames. Perhaps we should invent one for him? Is slavemaster Sluggo over the top?

    Maybe senile sluggo. Look how cool I am for calling him by a nickname!
    Seems like I've got more than my share here.

    Not as many as our pres, but quite a few.

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