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Thread: RBG Has Died

  1. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    so, move to Wyoming....

    It's the electoral college argument all over again. Without things like this in place, people not living in the highly populated areas would simply have no voice in anything.
    Bolded…exactly. And it is a brilliant idea.

    To get a better understanding of it…… NYC is less than 1/10th the size of the state bu, due to population, they pretty much call all the shots. Upstaters are not happy with this. Similar situation in Illinois with Chicago.

    Huge landowners in Montana or Wyoming would argue their value to the country in providing meat and produce compared to the Wall Street trader living in a one room apartment in NY.

    It's not all that cut and dry.

  2. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Yeah. Let's change the basis of our country just because Hilly lost.

    I know…let's go by counties.
    Oh wait, The Trumpster won 5 times as many counties as the witch. Can't do that.

    How abut by number of states won??? Nah, that doesn't work out either.

    Total territory??? (See number of counties).

    How about only tax payers get to vote…I'm all for that one.(Ever consider how many dem votes come from people that pay -0- in taxes? think about that). Aaaahhh, this probably won't happen.

    So you can pull these numbers apart anyway you want.

    Bottom line is that the founders wanted to offset the overwhelming (and still overwhelming) influence that population centers have on their states when choosing presidents. And it works.

    Now you throw out the three million more votes that Hilly received (correct) and I throw out how that would be greatly reduced (and maybe eliminated entirely) if (there's that awful word again) if the candidates campaigned in all states (very little campaigning in NY and CA - no point to it) and if (there's that word again) everyone was required to vote. I'd be interested in seeing those numbers and I'd be willing to accept the results.Would you???

    But it isn't going to happen. So we have the electoral system with the unfair "loaded" states that cannot possibly be lost by certain parties and the god-awfukl swing states that get buried with advertising. No state should be a "swing state."

    It is what it is.

    We'll see what the Harris presidency brings.
    Hang on a sec. I know you guys like to put everyone in a box to keep thinking simple, but I didn’t vote Hillary and don’t support a popular vote. I also don’t support change just because a republican won. It’s about a fair say in government from our citizens.

    Popular vote doesn’t work because our country is too huge. Republicans would either have to sacrifice values to campaign in cities or make an impossible strategy across swing districts and red space.

    I think the electoral system can work if each states electoral votes are adjusted for proper population balance and/or each state splits their votes proportionally. There are huge populations of red district republicans in CA whose votes are meaningless. Same for city Dems in red states. Nebraska and Maine split theirs and more states should look into this to drive up turnout.

    So I totally respect not leaving anyone behind. That said, the senate power is preposterous as it current stands and certainly not what the founders had in mind. Western states are not anything like the 13 colonies nor are the population to land. It makes no sense in any democracy.


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  3. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Normally you make sense. I don’t think you are here. If Trump negotiated aid and in exchange for the aid they agreed to something above board on record it would be a “this for that” situation and acceptable.

    He wanted withhold needed aid unless they agreed to slander his political rival. You can pretend you don’t see the difference but I think you do.


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    We don't know if that is what actually happened and the hearings did not support that it did happen.

  4. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    so, move to Wyoming....

    It's the electoral college argument all over again. Without things like this in place, people not living in the highly populated areas would simply have no voice in anything.
    I’m not in favor of taking their power away completely. I’m in favor of a level playing field.


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  5. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Hang on a sec. I know you guys like to put everyone in a box to keep thinking simple, but I didn’t vote Hillary and don’t support a popular vote. I also don’t support change just because a republican won. It’s about a fair say in government from our citizens.

    Popular vote doesn’t work because our country is too huge. Republicans would either have to sacrifice values to campaign in cities or make an impossible strategy across swing districts and red space.

    I think the electoral system can work if each states electoral votes are adjusted for proper population balance and/or each state splits their votes proportionally. There are huge populations of red district republicans in CA whose votes are meaningless. Same for city Dems in red states. Nebraska and Maine split theirs and more states should look into this to drive up turnout.

    So I totally respect not leaving anyone behind. That said, the senate power is preposterous as it current stands and certainly not what the founders had in mind. Western states are not anything like the 13 colonies nor are the population to land. It makes no sense in any democracy.


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    I don't agree. the two senators per state seem to have worked out fairly well.

    Bolded……What about the power that has evolved to the Speaker of the House??? I seriously doubt that the founders foresaw that. Pelosi has way too much power in my opinion.

    And I seriously doubt that the founders even remotely conceived how much $$$$ is involved in these parties. You better vote the way Pelosi wants or you are doomed financially (wouldn't that be quid pro quo???). She has way too much power.

  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Bolded…exactly. And it is a brilliant idea.

    To get a better understanding of it…… NYC is less than 1/10th the size of the state bu, due to population, they pretty much call all the shots. Upstaters are not happy with this. Similar situation in Illinois with Chicago.

    Huge landowners in Montana or Wyoming would argue their value to the country in providing meat and produce compared to the Wall Street trader living in a one room apartment in NY.

    It's not all that cut and dry.
    Our outdated friend has a pretty good point here...

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  7. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    I’m not in favor of taking their power away completely. I’m in favor of a level playing field.


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    Well define level then, please
    Combine 5 Plains states and they get a combined 2 senators? Wyoming gets 1, California gets 60?
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  8. #473
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    The electoral college is basically electoral welfare. It gives people who would otherwise have no voice an equal footing in say. It’s not the worst thing but good luck pandering to them to win their votes when you’re skewed to the populated areas where all the money is made. Completely different lifestyle and different culture.

  9. #474
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    Saw this take on politics and the SC and it largely matches my thinking

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZl_0XczWg

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    The electoral college is basically electoral welfare. It gives people who would otherwise have no voice an equal footing in say. It’s not the worst thing but good luck pandering to them to win their votes when you’re skewed to the populated areas where all the money is made. Completely different lifestyle and different culture.
    The electoral college is fine, the issue is that congress broke it. The Constitution says we should have a representative for each 50k people. If that was true no President would have ever been elected without winning the popular vote. We are told it's the ECs fault because why would congress take the blame? If the states chose to apportion their votes proportionally no President would have ever been elected without winning the popular vote. We are told it's the ECs fault because nobody wants to try to make the easier changes because they require risk and faith.

    The EC isn't going away without amending the Constitution and that is INCREDIBLY unlikely.

  11. #476
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    RBG Has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    We don't know if that is what actually happened and the hearings did not support that it did happen.
    Yes we do and yes it did.


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    Last edited by ewing; 09-21-2020 at 07:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  12. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    I don't agree. the two senators per state seem to have worked out fairly well.

    Bolded……What about the power that has evolved to the Speaker of the House??? I seriously doubt that the founders foresaw that. Pelosi has way too much power in my opinion.

    And I seriously doubt that the founders even remotely conceived how much $$$$ is involved in these parties. You better vote the way Pelosi wants or you are doomed financially (wouldn't that be quid pro quo???). She has way too much power.
    Yeah I’d agree with you. Speakers for the last few decades wield too much power. Whipping votes is part of the game buts it’s so overly broken now.

    My honest opinion is we’d be better off with a parliamentary system but whatever. It is what it is.

    Good chat with ya


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  13. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Well define level then, please
    Combine 5 Plains states and they get a combined 2 senators? Wyoming gets 1, California gets 60?
    Sure adjust senate seats based on population. I’m not smart enough to solve the problem, I’m just smart enough to recognize its existence.

    Maybe get rid of the Senate, just have a House, get rid of the presidency and have a Prime Minister.

  14. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Bolded…exactly. And it is a brilliant idea.

    To get a better understanding of it…… NYC is less than 1/10th the size of the state bu, due to population, they pretty much call all the shots.
    Umm, thats where 65% of the population lives

    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    The electoral college is basically electoral welfare. It gives people who would otherwise have no voice an equal footing in say.
    Its literally not equal. A rural vote is worth MORE than an urban vote. Thats just stupid
    Last edited by rhino17; 09-21-2020 at 07:04 PM.
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  15. #480
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    Fat people's vote should be worth more than a skinny person's because they take up more space. That is how the electoral college was intended to work.

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