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  1. #76
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    It was a team rule for this decision that everyone do the same thing. Just like itís a team rule everyone gets a roommate on away game trips.

    Canít use the ďteam ruleĒ argument and also pick and chose when it applies.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    1 - No one bullied him. They said he did it unknowing to them. Thatís the part I take an issue with. He didnít even talk to them that he wanted to do that.
    That's the thing about rights and freedom, you don't have to ask anyone permission to use them.

    We get it, you love fascism and forcing people to do things against their will. Not surprising for a Steelers fan, since Ben loves to force people to do things against their will, and that rubbed off on AB as well. Obviously a big cultural issue in Pitt.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 1188 @ 67.1%, 8.3 per att, 5 TD, 2 (1.4%) INT, 98.5 Rate 76.7 QBR
    Wentz: 737 @ 59.8%, 5.6 per att, 3 TD, 6 INT (4.5%), 63.9 Rate 35.5 QBR


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    That's exactly what it is, and there's a reason it's a flawed concept that isn't widely utilized in real world politics. Just because the mob outnumbers someone doesn't mean they're right. Imagine if the Bill of Rights were up for grabs by just a 51/49 vote.
    Well, I'm referring to actual democracy, not the American conception of it: having the choice between Biden and Trump, decided by a few swing state voters. Democratic decision making works perfectly well as long as something like the fate of minorities isn't up for a vote. Unfortunately due to the USA's history with the natives and slaves, the government started out not treating everyone the same. "The mob" in the eyes of the founding fathers were the majority of inhabitants of the American continent who didn't have the same rights, so obviously their system of government had to exclude those others by design.

    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    It's not totally incorrect to compare some types of democracy to fascism. Imagine Nazi Germany held a vote on whether Jews were allowed to be in the country. "Welp, the majority rules, democracy wins again!" You need a large percentage of your population to be nationalists to have fascism.
    Actually the Nazis only received a third of the vote at their peak; it took collaboration with centrist, conservative, and liberal factions to appoint Hitler as chancellor and hand him dictatorial powers. Only after this did the Nazis dissolve the parliament, trade unions, etc.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    On the first point up there:
    No one has called him out as a teammate. All they said is they were off guard. So you were saying bad things about the team then for something they didnít do?

    I personally think itís a bad teammate thing to do in not at least giving anyone the heads up you want to do this.

    As for the Rose story, more players said today that they didnít fully research it. They saw a name from East Pittsburgh and wanted to recognize that it happened in their city.
    I think maybe you're misreading my posts/stances on the team. I'm saying IF they do those things, **** them. So far they've done a great job. Roethlisberger as the face of the team gave a prefect response and Tomlin backed him up perfectly. Anything I've said bad about the team is strictly on a hypothetical scenario that hasn't happened yet.

    Honestly the fact that nobody did research is one of the biggest problems with the "movement". Like are they so stoked to support something that they'll support anything that fits their preconceived notion without investigating?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    That's the thing about rights and freedom, you don't have to ask anyone permission to use them.
    In your idealist utopia maybe, but in the real world rights and freedoms are established by the people through the use of force.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    It was a team rule for this decision that everyone do the same thing. Just like itís a team rule everyone gets a roommate on away game trips.

    Canít use the ďteam ruleĒ argument and also pick and chose when it applies.
    It was a team decision, not a rule. There is a huge difference.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    Well, I'm referring to actual democracy, not the American conception of it: having the choice between Biden and Trump, decided by a few swing state voters. Democratic decision making works perfectly well as long as something like the fate of minorities isn't up for a vote. Unfortunately due to the USA's history with the natives and slaves, the government started out not treating everyone the same. "The mob" in the eyes of the founding fathers were the majority of inhabitants of the American continent who didn't have the same rights, so obviously their system of government had to exclude those others by design.


    Actually the Nazis only received a third of the vote at their peak; it took collaboration with centrist, conservative, and liberal factions to appoint Hitler as chancellor and hand him dictatorial powers. Only after this did the Nazis dissolve the parliament, trade unions, etc.
    So am I, notice that American "democracy" doesnt do what I just complained about? Not that it's perfect in any way.

    A good example of democracy failing due to the majority vote is the 2016 Brexit vote. Majority won, so democracy has spoken, right? Except many didn't vote and then you have areas like Scotland and Northern Ireland who overwhelmingly voted to stay, who then found themselves at the mercy of England and parts of Wales. Clearly the 'united Kingdom doesn't share the same beliefs, regionally, much like the 50 states in the US tend to have different needs and beliefs.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I think maybe you're misreading my posts/stances on the team. I'm saying IF they do those things, **** them. So far they've done a great job. Roethlisberger as the face of the team gave a prefect response and Tomlin backed him up perfectly. Anything I've said bad about the team is strictly on a hypothetical scenario that hasn't happened yet.

    Honestly the fact that nobody did research is one of the biggest problems with the "movement". Like are they so stoked to support something that they'll support anything that fits their preconceived notion without investigating?
    This is what your first post was:

    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    The question is if he agreed to it or if the team decided to take a mob mentality and vote on it. If he never agreed to it, **** the rest of the team.



    Let's step away from "the movement" and look at this for what it really is. Villanueva doesn't want to endorse someone involved in a gang shooting, and I don't blame him one bit. It's a bad move on the Steelers to try to force this on a player.

    As for "the movement", they could find a more deserving person to support. He was involved in a shooting a fled the scene, regardless of how we feel about cops or when they can/cant shoot people, a fleeing shooting suspect is a potential threat. This isn't a case of someone who was wrongfully murdered for just fleeing a traffic ticket. Pushing cases like this to the front of "the movement" isn't helping the cause.
    As far as the second part of the movement stuff. The issue that arose in the Pittsburgh case isnít that he was suspect, he was shot in the back running away. In this country you are innocent until proven guilty yet the cop denied him the right to that trial of his peers to say if he was guilty or not. And thatís the issue being taken up. Itís not that everyone is innocent, itís the lack of their day in court and a lack of a punishment for those that take that right away.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    A good example of democracy failing due to the majority vote is the 2016 Brexit vote. Majority won, so democracy has spoken, right? Except many didn't vote and then you have areas like Scotland and Northern Ireland who overwhelmingly voted to stay, who then found themselves at the mercy of England and parts of Wales. Clearly the 'united Kingdom doesn't share the same beliefs, regionally, much like the 50 states in the US tend to have different needs and beliefs.
    How is that a failure of democracy? A nationwide referendum is exactly how membership of a country in the EU should be determined. Scotland and Northern Ireland could have separated from the UK, and then rejoined or stayed in the EU.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    This is what your first post was:



    As far as the second part of the movement stuff. The issue that arose in the Pittsburgh case isnít that he was suspect, he was shot in the back running away. In this country you are innocent until proven guilty yet the cop denied him the right to that trial of his peers to say if he was guilty or not. And thatís the issue being taken up. Itís not that everyone is innocent, itís the lack of their day in court and a lack of a punishment for those that take that right away.
    My bad, the initial post was meant to be more "**** what the team thinks" rather than "**** the team". Since then I think I've made sure to speak in hypotheticals regarding the team. My opinion is let the team do what they want but you can't make someone participate based on a simple vote.

    I agree and don't like seeing anyone get shot in the back, but there's also the concern of an immediate threat. If a cop has legitimate reason to think a suspect is endangering others they typically can shoot to kill. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but if he got away and shot another civilian he'd be in trouble for not stopping him. The problem is you don't want a cop to get off when they negligently shoot someone for running from a non-threatening scenario, but you also don't want him to be useless in a threatening scenario (such as one where a car literally just shot someone, the car has bullet holes, and they're fleeing). I'm not going to pretend to have an the answers, but this case has so much gray area that the NFL shouldn't have touched this one imo.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    How is that a failure of democracy? A nationwide referendum is exactly how membership of a country in the EU should be determined. Scotland and Northern Ireland could have separated from the UK, and then rejoined or stayed in the EU.
    So the solution is to just have 4 referendums to drag on for years and fights for succession to determine the outcome for a supposedly unified country? So with that in mind, should the US just separate into their own countries, because we kinda had a war over that and now have a Supreme Court case that forbids it...

    A 51% vote is a total failure for a decision that big. It'd be like if your city voted to paint all buildings in Cowboys colors because 51% of voters were Cowboys fans. 49% are getting ****ed pretty hard based on their needs.

  12. #87
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    As for Villanueva, I don't really care; these slogans are mostly symbolic anyway. A strike like NBA players attempted would be much more effective. If Villanueva had concerns though he should have made them known before the vote, and this wouldn't even be a story now.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    So the solution is to just have 4 referendums to drag on for years and fights for succession to determine the outcome for a supposedly unified country? So with that in mind, should the US just separate into their own countries, because we kinda had a war over that and now have a Supreme Court case that forbids it...

    A 51% vote is a total failure for a decision that big. It'd be like if your city voted to paint all buildings in Cowboys colors because 51% of voters were Cowboys fans. 49% are getting ****ed pretty hard based on their needs.
    Well, not having a vote at all would just mean sticking with the status quo. So a better analogy would be a sports bar that's tuned to the Eagles game making a vote whether to stick to the channel or to tune in to the Cowboys game instead.

    Of course as an Eagles fan I could throw a big tantrum over why this vote is being held at all and call it an example of fascism, but I'm not a ********.

    By the way, Brexit was only this tedious because the conservative party who initiated the referendum didn't actually expect the majority of the people to vote Leave. So it was intended to be just another example of sham democracy.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    What a bad take lol. Imagine calling being against righty rhetoric "trolling" when you're the one trolling me.

    Imagine not understanding what I'm saying and going back to righty rhetoric about "thugs!". Then continuing to troll me, and calling me the troll. lmao.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I never called you a troll. You even quoted the guy who did in this post, so thatís strange. Youíre not a troll, just a guy with a really screwed up moral compass. This isnít even a right versus left issue. He sexually assaulted a 14-year old girl! The fact that you canít see whatís wrong with making a hero out of that person, regardless of the cause or ďthe movementĒ, is incredibly disturbing.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    As for Villanueva, I don't really care; these slogans are mostly symbolic anyway. A strike like NBA players attempted would be much more effective. If Villanueva had concerns though he should have made them known before the vote, and this wouldn't even be a story now.
    Thatís my problem. FWIW David DeCastro and Maurkice Pouncey were over at Villanuevas house yesterday to have a discussion with him about bringing up these items with the entire team.

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