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View Poll Results: If Harden Gets traded… Where to?

Voters
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  • Knicks

    1 14.29%
  • Spurs

    0 0%
  • Boston

    0 0%
  • Bucks

    0 0%
  • Portland

    0 0%
  • OKC lol

    0 0%
  • Denver

    0 0%
  • Cavs

    0 0%
  • Hawks

    0 0%
  • Bulls

    0 0%
  • Raptors

    0 0%
  • 76ers

    1 14.29%
  • Magic

    0 0%
  • Pistons

    0 0%
  • Pelicans

    0 0%
  • Westbrook will get traded

    2 28.57%
  • Harden will not Get Traded

    4 57.14%
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZNC View Post
    Jesus Christ man, it's not even remotely one playoff performance. It's EVERY SINGLE YEAR! I know you're a gigantic homer and a Harden apologist to the extreme but damn man it's who he is at this point. He's great against far inferior teams but when he goes up against some one equal he shrinks every single time.
    Spurs & one of the GS series, and now Lakers.

    Also back in his OKC days, he didn't show up against the HEAT but he was very very young; but the signs of poor play in big moments started then.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Put yourself in my shoes, and let's take a quick trip through time together. It's 1995 and the Jazz just got done getting upset in the first round by the Houston Rockets, on their way to their second straight title. Karl Malone has consistently proven to underpeform in the playoffs, and he's going to be 32 next year. He was bad in that series.

    Would you have traded him and Stockton and cleaned house? You have no indication that the Jazz are going to win anything, and MJ has come back out of retirement, so you know he looms large over in the Eastern Conference, regardless of what happens with a stacked West that still includes the Rockets, Sonics, Spurs and Suns. And unlike with these Rockets, we actually KNOW they don't end up winning anything.

    Would you go back in time and have had them trade their superstar players and the best players in franchise history just because they didn't win a title and likely weren't going to? (And note that Harden is actually a year younger than Malone was at that point in his career.)

    Edit: And it's worth noting that unlike Malone in 95, Harden is coming off the best postseason statistically of his career. On top of playing some of the best defense we've ever seen from him, the dude put up the highest PER, TS%, WS/48 and BPM of any postseason of his career while averaging 30/8/6/2. And he did this while being doubled teamed for most of the games he played in or being covered by the opposing team's best perimeter defender every single night.
    Noted...

    WILL HE CHANGE HIS PLAYING STYLE???

    Will he actually move with out the ball? Will he help out his team/offense, even when the play isn't designed for him?

    These are crazy questions to ask, for a person making over 30mil a year.

    Harden should be looked upon as a hyper scorer, he shouldn't be the team leader. The front office shouldn't treat him as such either. His game has proven that this isn't his role.

    He is just a very good scorer & playmaker at times. He needs a KD, he needs a Lbj, he needs a Duncan, he needs a Shaq, he needs a Wade.
    Last edited by Dade County; 09-14-2020 at 11:01 PM.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  3. #63
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    It's so hard to get a true handle on what Harden can or can't be when these nitwit coaches and GM keep trotting him out with this super predictable offense that won't have sustained success.

    I wonder what a good coach who doesn't run a mickey mouse system would do? Would Harden buy-in? I honestly have no clue. What I do know is I agree with the last couple of posters that say Harden has not shown he can be relied upon as the guy who will reliably make the best winning plays/decisions against tough defenses in the playoffs.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    It's so hard to get a true handle on what Harden can or can't be when these nitwit coaches and GM keep trotting him out with this super predictable offense that won't have sustained success.

    I wonder what a good coach who doesn't run a mickey mouse system would do? Would Harden buy-in? I honestly have no clue. What I do know is I agree with the last couple of posters that say Harden has not shown he can be relied upon as the guy who will reliably make the best winning plays/decisions against tough defenses in the playoffs.
    Got to wonder though if some of that is Harden. Sometimes he looks like he doesn't know what he wants to do with it. Then sometimes he looks incredibly decisive. When he plays fast he's a much better player than when they slow things down. They need a coach that forces him to play faster and within the system.

  5. #65
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    I blame extreme small ball.. there was no reason to go that far with it.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I blame extreme small ball.. there was no reason to go that far with it.
    I said it back at the start though, they tried everything around him. Pick and roll, move him off ball, put nothing but shooter around him. He needs to look at his own game and really think about how he can help in that way.

    i kinda feel like we're watching Melo again.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dade County View Post
    Noted...

    WILL HE CHANGE HIS PLAYING STYLE???

    Will he actually move with out the ball? Will he help out his team/offense, even when the play isn't designed for him?
    By simply being on the floor he's doing something positive for the offense. But there's not a lot of motion to the Rockets offense. You can say that's because of Harden, but I'd say that's the nature of what D'Antoni wanted to do offensively as well.

    These are crazy questions to ask, for a person making over 30mil a year.

    Harden should be looked upon as a hyper scorer, he shouldn't be the team leader. The front office shouldn't treat him as such either. His game has proven that this isn't his rule.


    He is just a very good scorer & playmaker at times. He needs a KD, he needs a Lbj, he needs a Duncan, he needs a Shaq, he needs a Wade.
    Cool. So Morey just needs to go out and get a top 20 all-time player in his prime to pair Harden with. Man, I wished he'd thought of that years ago! Ugh... It's crazy he didn't think of that already:

    If you're talking about needing a guy who's more intense and a team leader, he has that right now in Westbrook. Russ was 100% that guy this season and a big reason, I think, why the Rockets' (Harden included) were able to ramp up their intensity on defense. But Russ isn't the player of the other guys you mentioned. He can lead through his words and his overall leadership skills, but he's playing like a $5 million player on the floor, not a $40 million player.

    You need more than leadership in the NBA—something I've preached for years, but people still tout as more important than actual basketball skills...


  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    I said it back at the start though, they tried everything around him. Pick and roll, move him off ball, put nothing but shooter around him. He needs to look at his own game and really think about how he can help in that way.

    i kinda feel like we're watching Melo again.
    I feel like everyone saying this didn't actually watch the Rockets much in these playoffs. I'm not saying Harden is without fault for losing to the Lakers, but the dude more than did his part. Have you seen Westbrook's numbers in that series? Or the rebounding disparity? Or the inability by anyone other than Harden to hit a shot?

    If you want to play the "maybe it's Harden's fault?" card, you're a few years too late. The dude was awesome this postseason. He had two bad games these playoffs: Game 7 against OKC and Game 4 against LA. Otherwise, he was the best version of playoff Harden we've ever seen.

    I've been a Harden apologist at times, and I've been willing to call him out when he didn't show up in the playoffs. This is not either of those times. The Rockets didn't lose in the playoffs because Harden underperformed. They lost because they overmatched against a bigger, more talented basketball team, and Harden's No. 2 laid an egg.
    Last edited by mightybosstone; 09-14-2020 at 11:35 PM.


  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post

    *Role...

    He shouldn't be depended on as the team leader. He needs an alpha player along with an alpha coach (& the front office needs to back up the head coach).

    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Cool. So Morey just needs to go out and get a top 20 all-time player in his prime to pair Harden with. Man, I wished he'd thought of that years ago! Ugh... It's crazy he didn't think of that already:
    However you want to look a it. As long as Harden isn't the main player on the team; he can be the main scorer most of the times; if he isn't playing with in the offense, have a seat.

    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    If you're talking about needing a guy who's more intense and a team leader, he has that right now in Westbrook. Russ was 100% that guy this season and a big reason, I think, why the Rockets' (Harden included) were able to ramp up their intensity on defense.
    Westbrook is Westbrook... I don't want to throw dirt on him right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    But Russ isn't the player of the other guys you mentioned. He can lead through his words and his overall leadership skills, but he's playing like a $5 million player on the floor, not a $40 million player.
    They will try to tried Russ this off season. & place more of a team around Harden. But Harden has to be the one to change.

    Run around some damn screens, cut to the basket...etc

    He did try to play defense this season though.

    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    You need more than leadership in the NBA—something I've preached for years, but people still tout as more important than actual basketball skills...
    Both attributes are needed in a team sport.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Hahaha. I’m sorry but this is the bad take HOF worthy.
    As a Bulls fan I’d be upset if they gave that up for Simmons.

    Now if Sixers took on the Young or Satoranksky contract I’d consider it more (probably needed just to complete the trade anyways).

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    .
    Who do you think can make Harden fall in line?

    I can think of a coach.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I feel like everyone saying this didn't actually watch the Rockets much in these playoffs. I'm not saying Harden is without fault for losing to the Lakers, but the dude more than did his part. Have you seen Westbrook's numbers in that series? Or the rebounding disparity? Or the inability by anyone other than Harden to hit a shot?

    If you want to play the "maybe it's Harden's fault?" card, you're a few years too late. The dude was awesome this postseason. He had two bad games these players: Game 7 against OKC and Game 4 against LA. Otherwise, he was the best version of playoff Harden we've ever seen.

    I've been a Harden apologist at times, and I've been willing to call him out when he didn't show up in the playoffs. This is not either of those times. The Rockets didn't lose in the playoffs because Harden underperformed. They lost because they overmatched against a bigger, more talented basketball team, and Harden's No. 2 laid an egg.
    All of this is mostly true...

    But the Lakers & Clips are not going anywhere. & other teams will get better.

    Harden play style when it comes to him participating in offensive possessions when he isn't the main ball handler has to change.

    The man has to play ball.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dade County View Post
    All of this is mostly true...

    But the Lakers & Clips are not going anywhere. & other teams will get better.

    Harden play style when it comes to him participating in offensive possessions when he isn't the main ball handler has to change.

    The man has to play ball.
    Go back and watch the Lebron/Wade Heat or Lebron/Kyrie Cavs teams. There was a ton of isolation basketball on those teams with James and Wade/Irving chilling on off-possessions. The Rockets' style should be pretty damn similar to anyone who's watched Lebron play over the years.

    This misnomer that Harden not moving more without the ball is the next excuse it sounds like PSD is going to use for why Harden can't win a title. First it was he doesn't play defense. Then it's that he's too reliant on the free throw line. Now it's that he's not moving without the ball enough (despite playing in an era of superstars who often don't move without the ball).

    It's a little absurd. It's not that Harden can't win a title. It's that he's always played on teams that were a step behind another superior team in his conference. And, yeah, he's had years where he's underperformed and deserved criticism. This is not that year, and it's ****ing ridiculous to say "Harden can't win a title because he's not moving without the basketball."

    If Harden was playing on the same team as Lebron or AD or Kawhi or George right now instead of Westbrook, they'd still be playing basketball. That's the reality of the situation.
    Last edited by mightybosstone; 09-14-2020 at 11:43 PM.


  14. #74
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    Umm its not just PSD saying this about his lack of ball movement tho. Its been everywhere and has been brought up to the coaching staff by the media. It might be overstated but it still speaks to the predictability of the attack. Is Harden willing to play in a more egalitarian offense? He said he wished he could play in that kind of offense back in one All-Star game exchange with KD or some Warrior, it felt like he was dissing CP3 to me (iirc). Its like he purposely didn't help CP3 create offense for the team when he would just stand far away from the basket when CP3 had the ball.

    Like who got more out of Westbrook, Harden or Paul George with the way they played? Which duo would you say was more productive together, Harden+RWB or PG13+RWB?

    Also those teams you mentioned had abit more varied approach in their attack, they weren't just allowing 1 player to spam the PnR/ISO at the top of the key, they were running horns(with Bron at the elbow), floppy sets (Ray/Korver/Kyrie/Wade) and you saw Bron in the post a decent chunk creating from there, attacking from the wing in isolation. It wasn't as easy to gameplan against and this is with the Rockets sacrificing all their size to get there.
    Last edited by Chronz; 09-15-2020 at 12:44 AM.

  15. #75
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    Overall good post...

    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Go back and watch the Lebron/Wade Heat or Lebron/Kyrie Cavs teams. There was a ton of isolation basketball on those teams with James and Wade/Irving chilling on off-possessions. The Rockets' style should be pretty damn similar to anyone who's watched Lebron play over the years.
    Please watch.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGwf...nnel=NBAonESPN

    The man literally starts backing up more and more from the 3pt line. I can find more videos of Harden doing this.

    & PLEASE never, never, put H & Wade in the same sentence to compare them in anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    This misnomer that Harden not moving more without the ball is the next excuse it sounds like PSD is going to use for why Harden can't win a title.
    He's been doing this for over 2 season though. It's nothing new.

    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    First it was he doesn't play defense. Then it's that he's too reliant on the free throw line.
    This was the first reason... & it was true.

    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Now it's that he's not moving without the ball enough (despite playing in an era of superstars who often don't move without the ball).

    It's a little absurd. It's not that Harden can't win a title. It's that he's always played on teams that were a step behind another superior team in his conference.
    Blame KD. If Not KD, then LBJ, If not Lbj then that cheat trade that sent KG to Boston.

    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    And, yeah, he's had years where he's underperformed and deserved criticism. This is not that year, and it's ****ing ridiculous to say "Harden can't win a title because he's not moving without the basketball."

    If Harden was playing on the same team as Lebron or AD or Kawhi or George right now instead of Westbrook, they'd still be playing basketball. That's the reality of the situation.
    As long as Harden isn't the alpha on the team, he has a chance to win a title. But I wouldn't trust Harden playing alongside AD or PG; and granting them a title off the bat (not saying that you did).







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

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