Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 75
  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,148
    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I don't know of many Rockets fans who supported that deal. I certainly didn't. When I got news of the trade, that was a very bad day. Do we as fans usually talk ourselves into trades over time? Definitely. At some point you have to accept the hand you're dealt, and it's much easier to go "I think this can work. I get why it happened." than it is to say "This trade is a disaster, and they've doomed the franchise for the next 10 years."

    It was a bad trade then, and it looks even worse now. And what little justification that was there (team chemistry, Paul's injuries) looks pretty ridiculous in hindsight. If Chris Paul was still on this team, they'd be performing a hell of a lot better in this series than they are.
    I feel you, and you aren't the weirdo in that regard. I'm the weirdo because I put too much pressure on myself to be objective that I could never justify a stupid decision a team I cheer for makes. All my friends do that with their respective teams. I'm just incapable of bullsh-tting myself and convincing myself of something I don't believe. I end up not having as much fun because of this mindset, which is what sports is really suppose to be all about.

    For example: When Mark Cuban stopped Donnie from from picking Giannis, and instead sold the pick, I will never allow myself to justify the decision. Even getting Luka doesn't mean that Cuban made the right decision... It just so happens that Cuban and the Mavericks are LUCKY that by trading the pick which would have netted Giannis, the Mavericks sucked and were able to get another generational talent with Luka Doncic. It was still a stupid decision on Cuban's part... getting Luka doesn't make it less stupid.

    I have to get back to work. I hope I explained my point well enough. If not, let me know.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    parts unknown
    Posts
    49,540
    He is very good but I don't agree with the premise of this thread. Is he really underappreciated? I feel like i;ve been hearing about how he is nerd genius forever. I think if anyone is under appreciarted its Pat Riley A lot poeple said he sucked not long ago. Dude is a ganster
    Rep Power: 0




    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    7,426
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    Perhaps I am ignorant of the power dynamic as it pertains to Morey/the higher ups. I know the GM of Dallas caved in to Cuban many times. It even costed the Mavericks getting Giannis (although, this may be a blessing in disguise as they now have Luka). I just put Morey on the elite of the GMs though, who doesn't strike me to be the roll over type of guy. If he is/had to do it to save his job, then it wouldn't make much sense letting him go. I would think the higher ups would be like "Oof, I'm sorry I forced your hand. From this point foward, you have complete liberty to do your jobs even if we feel we know better than you."

    Morey isn't the problem in my opinion. I think Mike is talented and knowledgeable, but his playstyle has never yielded championship success, only regular season and analytical success. This isn't something he's tried once or twice either... His entire career he was an outlier in playstyle... to his credit, he was definitely ahead of his time.

    At some point you need to call it a day that James Harden getting all the calls in the regular season and putting up monster stats isn't worth the subpar playoff performances, year after year. The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. You could argue it wasn't the same thing this season because they traded for an inferior player in Westbrook and trading away Clint Capella (albeit for good 3D player), where they are punting the C position. However, using that point to show how it's different would only make your argument even weaker because this isn't just being "different", it's literally crippling your chances of becoming a better playoff team/championship caliber team.

    One of the few times I've cheered for the Rockets was when they faced GSW. I don't like CP3 (or the Rockets), but I didn't give a f---. The Warriors needed to go down... Unfortunately, CP3 went down... To me, repeating with that squad wouldn't have been the definition of insanity, because CP3 got injured in the series which changed the trajectory. However, you could argue that banking on CP3 being health in the playoffs is insanity, as he has shown a history of being injured. So I will concede to that point.
    You obviously are not familiar with Tillman Fertitta.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    31,694
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    Perhaps I am ignorant of the power dynamic as it pertains to Morey/the higher ups. I know the GM of Dallas caved in to Cuban many times. It even costed the Mavericks getting Giannis (although, this may be a blessing in disguise as they now have Luka). I just put Morey on the elite of the GMs though, who doesn't strike me to be the roll over type of guy. If he is/had to do it to save his job, then it wouldn't make much sense letting him go. I would think the higher ups would be like "Oof, I'm sorry I forced your hand. From this point foward, you have complete liberty to do your jobs even if we feel we know better than you."
    Everything that's been said about the deal certainly suggests this was a Fertitta and Harden decision, not a Morey decision. Morey put all of his cards on the table by trading for Paul and then doubling down on him with that huge contract. Why do that and then trade for an inferior player a year later, giving up picks along the way, when he was one year removed from nearly winning a title?

    Given Morey's track record, the guy has earned the benefit of the doubt, in the same way that Fertitta and Harden have done enough to suggest this was likely them forcing his hand. Don't get me wrong; Morey still pulled the trigger and deserves some of the blame. But the bulk of that has to fall on the guys who pushed for the trade in the first place.

    Morey isn't the problem in my opinion. I think Mike is talented and knowledgeable, but his playstyle has never yielded championship success, only regular season and analytical success. This isn't something he's tried once or twice either... His entire career he was an outlier in playstyle... to his credit, he was definitely ahead of his time.
    That's fair. I still think Mike could win a title under the right circumstances, but he hasn't, and I get that this league is ultimately about results.

    At some point you need to call it a day that James Harden getting all the calls in the regular season and putting up monster stats isn't worth the subpar playoff performances, year after year. The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. You could argue it wasn't the same thing this season because they traded for an inferior player in Westbrook and trading away Clint Capella (albeit for good 3D player), where they are punting the C position. However, using that point to show how it's different would only make your argument even weaker because this isn't just being "different", it's literally crippling your chances of becoming a better playoff team/championship caliber team.

    One of the few times I've cheered for the Rockets was when they faced GSW. I don't like CP3 (or the Rockets), but I didn't give a f---. The Warriors needed to go down... Unfortunately, CP3 went down... To me, repeating with that squad wouldn't have been the definition of insanity, because CP3 got injured in the series which changed the trajectory. However, you could argue that banking on CP3 being health in the playoffs is insanity, as he has shown a history of being injured. So I will concede to that point.
    But it isn't the same thing? If you're changing your roster all the time, and the league around you is changing, then that definition of insanity doesn't really apply here. This is a very different roster even than the team from three years ago. And I actually think Harden has been a better player in the bubble than he was three years ago.

    Now, you could argue that the team overall is worse than 2017-18 squad, so if you couldn't win a title with that squad, why should you think you could win a title with this one? I'd argue it's because sports are weird. Upsets happen, teams overperform and underpeform their expectations, and if you have a superstar, you're a thousand times more likely to win a title than if you don't.

    They probably won't win a title with Harden and this core. It's unlikely. But if they blow it up, there's a 0% chance they win a title in the window of his remaining contract. And the likelihood that they'll have a player of his caliber in the next 5-10 years is pretty damn unlikely, too.

    You're a Mavs fan, right? What if after the 2010 season, Cuban had said "**** it. We didn't win it in 2006, we got knocked out in the first round this season, and it's super unlikely that we're going to win a title with Dirk. Let's blow it up." Dirk was actually older then than James is now, and the Rockets have done better the last three seasons than the Mavs had done those three seasons leading up to 2010-11, when they won the title.

    Going into the 2010-11 season, the Mavs had no reason to believe that Dirk was likely to win a championship with the Mavericks. If they had dealt him, they could have easily justified it, because their superstar was aging and they'd missed their best shot years earlier. They didn't. They ended up overperforming their expectations the next year, Dirk had a magical run and they brought Dallas the first title in franchise history.


  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Bay
    Posts
    15,838
    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    You guys laugh, but I'm not that drunk. Just depressed. If you felt like your favorite sports team was at the end of an era and might be staring at a decade-plus of mediocrity, you would be, too. I'm just trying to recognize the man's accomplishments, because he doesn't get nearly enough credit for them.
    Iím not that DRUNK! I feel tho, bruh, Iím a Raiders & Warriors fan. My teams have been trash for ages. Warriors turned it around and I keep telling myself the raiders will too.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    4,852
    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    He is very good but I don't agree with the premise of this thread. Is he really underappreciated? I feel like i;ve been hearing about how he is nerd genius forever. I think if anyone is under appreciarted its Pat Riley A lot poeple said he sucked not long ago. Dude is a ganster
    Good points.
    <a href=https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7 target=_blank>https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7</a>

    8/24/2

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    4,852
    Quote Originally Posted by TrueFan420 View Post
    Iím not that DRUNK! I feel tho, bruh, Iím a Raiders & Warriors fan. My teams have been trash for ages. Warriors turned it around and I keep telling myself the raiders will too.
    Lucky for you, youíre a truefan so you find joy in the warriors wins and you also smoke so that helps you deal with the raiders being so bad.
    <a href=https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7 target=_blank>https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7</a>

    8/24/2

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Mile High
    Posts
    17,575
    Tilman really ****ed him over and put him in a no win situation this year. Dudes a garbage person and a terrible owner.
    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
    <><><><><><><>
    <><><><>

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The 6
    Posts
    26,032
    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Yeah, that's another one I always forget. I'm not sure how that would have worked out, though. Also, if that deal happens, it likely means Harden doesn't get dealt to Houston. That nixed trade is one hell of a fun "what if" though in terms of impact on the legacy of players and teams.





    I don't think Harden is going anywhere. To blow it up, they'd have to get rid of Westbrook, too, and Westbrook's contract is immovable unless they're willing to take another terrible contract in return. I think this core is here to stay; I just don't know if D'Antoni and Morey will be a part of it next year. Gordon's contract also would be pretty difficult to move.


    Because I don't think he's responsible for it. I don't think Morey wanted to do the Paul for Westbrook swap. I think he was forced to because his superstar and owner were unhappy. Morey's an analytics guy; there's zero chance he would have traded one of the analytic darlings of the last 15 years for an inefficient volume scorer like Westbrook unless he had to.

    And I think he's between a rock and a hard place right now in terms of the roster. Harden, Westbrook and Gordon all make too much freaking money. They still have RoCo, Tucker and House locked in for at least another year, so there's movable pieces on the team, but those are the guys they need to keep. If anyone can turn this roster into a title contender, it's Morey. But I don't see a scenario where he takes these pieces and wins a title barring Westbrook and Gordon suddenly not sucking anymore. (And all of this assumes Morey comes back next year, which I'm seriously doubting at this point.)
    There are teams that will take on WB. 6ers for example will be desperate to dump Horford. We could probably get a package like Horford, Josh Richardson, Mike Scott for WB and Gordon. Something like that wouldnt be bad. Infact I have faith Morey can do better, this is just an example.

    I was tryna cheer you up bro. I just think this is another year and Morey is back to the drawing board.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Bushwood Country Club
    Posts
    79,981
    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    He is very good but I don't agree with the premise of this thread. Is he really underappreciated? I feel like i;ve been hearing about how he is nerd genius forever. I think if anyone is under appreciarted its Pat Riley A lot poeple said he sucked not long ago. Dude is a ganster
    agree with all of this. Look, Morey IS a very good GM. But I think many people have agreed with that for a long time, but still admit he tends to treat players like assets only unless they are a star. Not the worst criticism, just the way it is. Imagine being a player that went in and out of Houston the last decade. They knew when they were drafted/traded for, it's a temporary home.

    Seriously, it's the only real criticism I have of Morey. I would kill to have him as the Wolves GM.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    12,212
    I mean, he's a good GM. Most would tend to agree with that. But he's never been to a finals, much less won a finals. And in 15ish years, he's made the conference finals twice. I mean, I don't know that I'd call that under appreciated. Until you win a title, you deserve scrutiny for the most part, espeically when you've been around for more than a few years.

    Sure, there's lots of orgs that would take the rockets level of success lately. Teams like Sacramento and Phoenix have been garbage for quite awhile that being sort of within spitting distance of the finals a few times would be a huge win. But if you're going to act like he's some huge mastermind GM, he needs to get the results to be considered that.

    I appreciate his aggressiveness. I feel like there's teams, like say Portland, that are semi-satisfied with being pretty good for quite a while with a star and aren't willing to really make a massively risky move. Morey is willing to do that. But those moves need to result in championships, or at least championship appearances, to be considered great.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    31,694
    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I mean, he's a good GM. Most would tend to agree with that. But he's never been to a finals, much less won a finals. And in 15ish years, he's made the conference finals twice. I mean, I don't know that I'd call that under appreciated. Until you win a title, you deserve scrutiny for the most part, espeically when you've been around for more than a few years.

    Sure, there's lots of orgs that would take the rockets level of success lately. Teams like Sacramento and Phoenix have been garbage for quite awhile that being sort of within spitting distance of the finals a few times would be a huge win. But if you're going to act like he's some huge mastermind GM, he needs to get the results to be considered that.

    I appreciate his aggressiveness. I feel like there's teams, like say Portland, that are semi-satisfied with being pretty good for quite a while with a star and aren't willing to really make a massively risky move. Morey is willing to do that. But those moves need to result in championships, or at least championship appearances, to be considered great.
    This is kind of the take I'm referring to and the reason I made the thread. In the NBA, especially, you're defined too often by your number of rings. But when you look at that resume I posted, how many GMs can say they've pulled off that many shrewd moves. Hell, how many GMs in the last 25 years in all of professional sports have a resume that strong?

    In the NBA, especially, you have limitations that other leagues don't necessarily have to deal with. In the NFL and MLB, you don't have to necessarily have the most talent to win. You need to be talented and play well in the postseason, but how many wild card teams have we seen win titles in those leagues? Compare that to how many 4 seeds or lower have won titles in the NBA, and you'll see the difference.

    Because your market and your owner and superstars play so much more of a role in the NBA than it does in those other sports, you can have a resume as strong as Morey's and never win a title. But the bottom line is, Morey has had little to no assets to work with in his career, is in a mid-sized media market and has had poor ownership. But he's consistently found talent other GMs didn't recognize and maximized that talent by winning trade after trade after trade.

    We shouldn't judge the job of a GM in the NBA by "did you win a title." Pat Riley gets credit for building that Heat team, but how much of that was just Wade, Lebron and Bosh talking and saying "You know what would be dope? We should all play together on the same team and party in Miami every night." No, we should judge GMs by their individual work and how integral they were in the success of their franchise.

    If you gave an average GM the same assets as Daryl Morey in 2007-08, how much better did Morey do than that GM? Think about it like VORP for GMs. If that stat existed, Morey would have put up MJ/Lebron numbers in his time in Houston.


  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Bay
    Posts
    15,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    Lucky for you, youíre a truefan so you find joy in the warriors wins and you also smoke so that helps you deal with the raiders being so bad.
    Dude I remember when Adonal Foyle was one of our marquee players. It didnít take much to enjoy the warriors wins. We believe was some of the most fun Iíve had as a warriors fan. That first chip I was so excited I ran out of the bar and was tackled by my friend into a parked car. It was like this epic burden had been lifted off our shoulders. Was def hurting the next day.

    I donít smoke anymore but I def down some GlenFiddich on Sunday to help with the loses. But like the start of every year, I tell myself, this could be the the year.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    47,555
    You forgot trading rudy gay for Shane battier and would've drafted Brandon Roy if not for Jvg foolishly playing to win in a season they needed to tank. I just remember thinking, man where was Morey all this time, he built a championship supporting cast within a season, his stars just broke down. Nothing against Carol Dawson but they could've used Morey in the tmac deal

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    47,555
    Guys, that's not the definition of insanity, been hearing that nonsense since high school. Don't even know who really started that cliche but he's prolly insane

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •