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  1. #1
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    Will Guenther Be a Goner? (The Defense Discussion Thread)

    Coordinators get too much of the blame for decisions made by the GM, front office and Head Coach all of the time. I get it. But something tells me that if Guenther's defense doesn't show marked improvement this year, he's going to be the fall guy. Will Rod be calling the shots this time next year? What do you think?

    From ESPN:

    Who's on the hot seat? DC Paul Guenther

    Why his seat is warm: In Guenther's two seasons as Jon Gruden's defensive playcaller, the Raiders have the fewest sacks in the NFL (45), are tied for the fewest takeaways (32), have given up the most 90-plus-yard touchdown drives (11), allowed the most points per drive (2.46) and are tied for the second-most yards per play allowed (6.08).

    On paper, the roster has been upgraded significantly on defense and, oh yeah, Rod Marinelli has joined the staff as the defensive line coach, though many see him as the DC-in-waiting should the defense struggle. -- Paul Gutierrez

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...us-hot-seat#LV
    Last edited by RaiderLakersA's; 09-15-2020 at 01:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    Jun 2013
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    I do think this is why Marinelli was brought in, He brings a discipline to a defense. If PGs system struggles as it has i believe RM will take over

  3. #3
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    Marinelli was brought in for a reason. However, the blame should not fall entirely on Guenther. Drafting players who don't fit the scheme has been the real problem for our defense. Guenther inherited players that Mckenzie had drafted or brought in via free agency. Take Key and Nassib for example. These two players are not good fits for the 4-3. That's why I would bring in one more defensive end who can really play in the 4-3.

  4. #4
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    Apr 2019
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    Yes, it's pretty obvious Marinelli was brought in to replace Guenther as soon as during the week 6 bye week if the defense struggles.

    You can't solely blame Guenther for the crappy defense the last 2 seasons. First, the roster was awful. Second, they knew the scheme he was bringing and still decided to hire him even though they didn't have a defensive line, which is a focal point in Guenther's low blitz scheme. I guess it's on Guenther for not adapting his scheme and calling plays like he was still with the Bengals.

    Guenther probably foresaw that the defense would struggle and that he would get the blame, so it wouldn't surprise me if Gruden had to give him some assurances to get him to take the job. They've invested a lot of capital on the defense now and Guenther has had a chance to implement his scheme for 2 years so this is his fair shot at delivering. Either the defense is vastly improved or Guenther gets the boot.

  5. #5
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    Mckenzie had this habit of drafting players who didn't fit the scheme. Players like Mario Edwards, Jihad Ward, Shlique Calhoun, and Arden Key. Ward IMO was the worst of the bunch because there were better linemen available when he was drafted.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2012
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    Missed tackles, and guys not even in the same zip code as the receiver? Yeah, let's blame Guenther. I think the D is respectable this year, let's see what happens.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by erickench View Post
    Mckenzie had this habit of drafting players who didn't fit the scheme. Players like Mario Edwards, Jihad Ward, Shlique Calhoun, and Arden Key. Ward IMO was the worst of the bunch because there were better linemen available when he was drafted.
    I think the Ward pick was one of his worst, he didn't even flash in college. But coaching played a huge part. A lot of RM's busts flashed potential but were never consistent. A lot of guys also played better with other teams after they got cut.

  8. #8
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberr View Post
    Yes, it's pretty obvious Marinelli was brought in to replace Guenther as soon as during the week 6 bye week if the defense struggles.

    You can't solely blame Guenther for the crappy defense the last 2 seasons. First, the roster was awful. Second, they knew the scheme he was bringing and still decided to hire him even though they didn't have a defensive line, which is a focal point in Guenther's low blitz scheme. I guess it's on Guenther for not adapting his scheme and calling plays like he was still with the Bengals.

    Guenther probably foresaw that the defense would struggle and that he would get the blame, so it wouldn't surprise me if Gruden had to give him some assurances to get him to take the job. They've invested a lot of capital on the defense now and Guenther has had a chance to implement his scheme for 2 years so this is his fair shot at delivering. Either the defense is vastly improved or Guenther gets the boot.
    Itís going to bet tough ton to fire pg. the d will be better because we have four lbs that are better than any of the lbs we had last year.(Littleton, kwaitkoski, McMillan and white imo).

    Our dt position is better with Collins.
    S is better and deeper with randel and heath.
    Cbs better with Arnette, amik and Prince.
    I donít think the de position got better. Crosby will get after the qb. Ferrell is more of a set the edge guy.

    Our d was very bad last year. How do you justify taking a 28th ranked d and making it a top 15 d and still fire the dc????

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatron View Post
    I donít think the de position got better. Crosby will get after the qb. Ferrell is more of a set the edge guy.
    Sad but true. Ferrell is more of an edge setting guy. But he does have alot of pass rushing moves. He may never reach double digit sack numbers, but he'll be better at rushing the passer than some of the duds we've had in recent years. Like Mario Edwards, Jihad Ward, etc.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by erickench View Post
    Sad but true. Ferrell is more of an edge setting guy. But he does have alot of pass rushing moves. He may never reach double digit sack numbers, but he'll be better at rushing the passer than some of the duds we've had in recent years. Like Mario Edwards, Jihad Ward, etc.
    No doubt and honestly if he can consistently give us 7-9 sacks a year while setting the edge... He will be worth it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueFan420 View Post
    No doubt and honestly if he can consistently give us 7-9 sacks a year while setting the edge... He will be worth it.
    Agree, Michael Bennett was a hell of a football player who never had double digit sacks. Was a key piece on some very good defenses.

  12. #12
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    I canít blame Guenther for the Raiders abysmal defense but I canít remember the last time we have had a good defensive coordinator. Willie Shaw?

    Iíll reserve judgement on Guenther until he gets some talent to work with.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    Mar 2016
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    I won't blame Guenther for the Raiders having a terrible defense but I will blame him for the Raiders having the WORST defense. Last in sacks, last in takeaways, last in points per drive. At some point he has to learn what a blitz is. Sitting back in a "bend but don't break" defense that consistently breaks is hard to watch. The talent has been upgraded substantially this year. Time to put up or get the **** out of town.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    I canít blame Guenther for the Raiders abysmal defense but I canít remember the last time we have had a good defensive coordinator. Willie Shaw?
    Willie Shaw was the best we've had in the last 25 years. He knew what he was doing. Then he was replaced with a Jon Gruden lookalike in Chuck Bresnahan.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MackAttack88 View Post
    I won't blame Guenther for the Raiders having a terrible defense but I will blame him for the Raiders having the WORST defense. Last in sacks, last in takeaways, last in points per drive. At some point he has to learn what a blitz is. Sitting back in a "bend but don't break" defense that consistently breaks is hard to watch. The talent has been upgraded substantially this year. Time to put up or get the **** out of town.
    In my trade I see two types of people. Some have large tool boxes with all kinds of custom made tools to tackle any job. Yet, they struggle to do a good job on even the most basic things. Then there are others who come into the shop with a beat up old box, a set of mics and a pair of calipers and a dead blow hammer and do amazingly precise work. Iíve had a feeling that Guenther is in the first group. If the D still sucks this year then he should be gone.

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