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  1. #1
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    Embiid or Simmons

    Totally speculative thread - but letís say the 76ers front office decides this off-season that the two canít co-exist on a championship caliber team. Who do you trade and who do you keep? Who has the most trade value and what package could you realistically get for either player?

    I saw a trade floated out by Spencer Dinwiddie that was Embiid for Wiggins and the #2 pick. Would you do this if you are Philly or GSW?


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  2. #2
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    Is trading both an option? lol ...or neither if Brown and Brand are let go.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticsfan2007 View Post
    Totally speculative thread - but letís say the 76ers front office decides this off-season that the two canít co-exist on a championship caliber team. Who do you trade and who do you keep? Who has the most trade value and what package could you realistically get for either player?

    I saw a trade floated out by Spencer Dinwiddie that was Embiid for Wiggins and the #2 pick. Would you do this if you are Philly or GSW?


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    God that's bad. GSW would need to add to that.

  4. #4
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    Simmons is overrated as hell. I'd have zero issue trading him away if I'm Philly.

  5. #5
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    They're both mentally weak but only one tries to act like he's not.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    Simmons is overrated as hell. I'd have zero issue trading him away if I'm Philly.
    Agreed. This shouldnít be a debate


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  7. #7
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    They should keep both and try to figure out a way to get a scoring wing/guard.

    They were so close to figuring that out last year with Butler. Theyíre should have done everything in their power to keep him.

    They are disappointing this year but I think they need to tweak rather than blow it up.


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOboston View Post
    They should keep both and try to figure out a way to get a scoring wing/guard.

    They were so close to figuring that out last year with Butler. Theyíre should have done everything in their power to keep him.

    They are disappointing this year but I think they need to tweak rather than blow it up.


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    Their financials are the worst in the league, if they can't move Harris or Horford, it will have to be one out of Simmons or Embiid...

    They sure need to add shooting and playmaking, you are right on this, but I can't see a feasible way of doing it and believe me... I'm good at it!

    Perhaps they may decide to keep things intact and attempt to draft smth spectacular this season additionally to firing the entire coaching squad, but if there will be a 1st round exit accompanied with a sweep... I don't think this will be enough to calm the fans down.

    This is too bitter for the fans to swallow! I believe their first attempt will be to move Horford sweetened with picks, but I think the reply on the other side of the phone, will always be either Simmons or Embiid... they have nothing else that could be of value...

    I don't know... Richardson perhaps packed with Horford + the 21st + a future 1st for (expiring) DeRosan? Could be, but will Pops take Horford's remaining 3 years? Can't he find better from elsewhere?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOboston View Post
    They should keep both and try to figure out a way to get a scoring wing/guard.

    They were so close to figuring that out last year with Butler. Theyíre should have done everything in their power to keep him.

    They are disappointing this year but I think they need to tweak rather than blow it up.


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    I heard from someone that I trust that Butler basically told Brand that unless he got 5 years, Brett Brown gone, and Simmons traded he didn't want to resign. I honestly don't know what the right answer there was. You do that and you are handing a player that hasn't won anything the ability to dictate how to run the team, but if you don't....you get what we got.

    The biggest issue I have right now is year to year, the front office seems to be reacting on what happened the previous year.
    2018 - Shooters galore, but what cost us there was the inability to have other guys that create and play defense.
    2019 - Overreact by getting guys that can create and defend, but we don't have the necessary size to compete.
    2020 - Overreact by overpaying a starting center to play PF and 'backup' center and getting defenders.

    Hell even our drafting has reflected this. 2018 draft Landry Shamet. 2019 draft Zhaire Smith. 2020 draft Matisse Thybulle. Heck good draft picks but they fit the mold of what they were trying to do.

    As a fan this is where I'm frustrated. Harris talked a good game of wanting to build the right way by making sure guys fit together, taking the time even if it takes a few years. I know a lot of people mocked Hinkie, but he really looked at Embiid as the centerpiece he was going to build around. Wanted to pick Porzingis as an asset to later trade. Hinkie was run out of town by other owners who were upset not about his tanking, rather the frustration was his use of second round pick contracts if you really do a deep read. Guarantees being higher and longer than previously accepted made more 2nd round picks wanting that deal.

    Then Colangelo's came in and they claimed to wanting to do the same thing. But they pushed the agenda a little more. Picked Simmons #1. But then there was the setting yourself up as the team that was going to overpay for talent. When you set yourself up as that team it's hard to get out of it. They jumped all over Fultz because they thought without Simmons shooting they needed that. I keep thinking about this one, where we really handed yall a gift and the "better GM Colangelo" (in relation to Hinkie) got played. Boston got their guy and got assets. Lakers were likely taking Ball no matter what. That was a draft I was calling to trade down for multiple assets or just bail out of it and use the pick on a good player via trade.

    I think at this point the Sixers had The Process and The Burners going on and Harris picked a GM he could "bully" around and would do what they wanted. Harris got impatient and really pushed to get things. I think in the 2018-19 season if we do ONLY the Butler trade or ONLY the Harris trade we're better off. So consider this, a 2018-19 end of season lineup of:
    Butler trade only Harris trade only
    PG Simmons PG Simmons
    SG Redick SG Redick
    SF Butler SF Covington
    PF Chandler PF Harris
    C Embiid C Embiid
    Key Bench: Shamet, Amir,
    Muscala, Fultz, McConnell
    Key Bench: Amir, Scott,
    Fultz, McConnell

    The future with either one of those teams is better than one that does both of those trades.

    Now fast forward to the 2019 offseason. Harris (ownership) is really pushing. They have long been obsessed with bigs (they forced the drafting of Okafor). They really push for Horford like signing. We can't trade Bayless, Saric, Covington, Muscala, Shamet, Chandler, 2020 1st, 2021 1st, 2021 2nd, 2023 second and have nothing to show for it. One thing I hate more than anything is teams having to sign a player to a contract because they would have nothing to show for that player (especially being traded for).

    Anyways looping around to where I was originally at with agreeing:
    I think tweaks are 100% needed. We've got a two teams thing going on. We've got a hodgepodge of players that would work best with Simmons or Embiid, but not a setup of players that work well with both. Unlike a what a certain poster will write, Horford and Harris are movable, it's a matter of what we give up to make it happen. Harris is a little easier to move IMO than Horford (age + skillset).

    But here's where I sit with it.
    Better for Simmons: Shake Milton, Al Horford, Josh Richardson, Furkan Korkmaz, Matisse Thybulle
    Better for Embiid: Tobias Harris, Josh Richardson, Matisse Thybulle, Mike Scott, Alec Burks

    Notice how there's only two crossover spots? Yea. So that means that there's a lot of work to be had there. If they pick one of these two players, the work has to be in dumping the guys on the other ones list. It comes down to which player do you believe has the easier to hide flaws.

    So the two thoughs:
    Build around Simmons: You move Embiid for a stud G/F player that is capable of spacing the floor, but can handle the ball. Someone that can really be the half court player. Trade Tobias Harris with 21 for a player with maybe just as bad of a contract, but with less time on it. Something like take 21 off there and go straight up for KLove. Maybe you end up with a lineup with something like: Milton, Beal, Richardson, Simmons, Horford with a bench of Love, Korkmaz, Thybulle. So much spacing for Simmons. Richardson and Horford can direct the half court offense.

    Build around Embiid: You move Simmons for another ball handlers. Heck maybe you use sending him out as a way to take a touch of a hit on return and attach Horford. Shake Milton is a catch and shoot guard, but he's not really a PG to play with a big like Embiid because he doesn't make entry passes. Move him for a little back or a similar style player. Within this I had a bit of a thought this morning, and mind you it's a little nutty: Simmons, Horford, 21, Harrell on S&T to OKC, CP3 and Shamet to Philly, Steven Adams to LAC. I know much more needs to be done to make finacials work (I think it would be the LAC part as the most difficult). But them you could end up with a Sixers team looking: CP3, JRich, Thybulle, Harris, Embiid with a bench of Shamet, Scott, Burks.

    Honestly in ease of movement and payoff of return, Simmons is the best one to build around. Also in today's NBA, it's going to be easier to mask the shortcomings of Simmons than it will be to mask the shortcomings of Embiid.

  10. #10
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    ****, I know I just put that long post out there but I think I talked myself into a "Build around Simmons" mega trade:
    Sixers out Hornets out Wizards out Kings out
    Joel Embiid
    Tobias Harris
    Mike Scott
    Zhaire Smith
    Terry Rozier
    Nicolas Batum
    Bradley Beal
    Davis Bertans
    Thomas Bryant
    9
    Harrison Barnes
    Buddy Hield
    12
    Sixers In Hornets In Wizards In Kings In
    Bradley Beal
    Terry Rozier
    Harrison Barnes
    Tobias Harris
    Mike Scott
    Joel Embiid
    Buddy Hield
    12
    Nicolas Batum
    Davis Bertans
    Thomas Bryant
    Zhaire Smith
    9

    Balance this with some 2nds or top 20 protected 1sts within this.

    Philadelphia 76ers
    Starters: Ben Simmons, Bradley Beal, Josh Richardson, Harrison Barnes, Al Horford
    Key Role Players: Terry Rozier, Matisse Thybulle, Furkan Korkmaz
    Why the Sixers do it:
    They aren't going to get out of the length of the deals that easily, so taking back some longer contracts is going to be something they have to do. The keystone of this deal is Embiid - Beal swap. The starting lineup allows Ben to be surrounded with catch and shoot players. Barnes and Simmons can defend the 3/4, Al mans the center, Beal and Richardson take the 1/2 defensively. Rozier coming in can either play off ball or on ball. Allows him to slide back into his old role. Downside is of course needing to find a backup center with limited mobility.

    Charlotte Hornets
    Starters: Devonte' Graham, Killian Hayes (draft @ 3), Miles Bridges, Tobias Harris, Cody Zeller
    Key Role Players: Malik Monk, PJ Washington, Mike Scott
    Why the Hornets do it:
    They are not a FA destination by any means. With Batum coming up to expire, him walking isn't really a help to them in gaining the cap space. So moving out Batum and Rozier for Harris gains them some space, but gets them an upgrade at the F spot while also giving them a clear path of who to pick in the draft with Hayes for a young solid back court of Graham and Hayes.

    Washington Wizards
    Starters: John Wall, Buddy Hield, Tony Brown Jr, Rui Hachimura, Joel Embiid
    Key Role Players: Ish Smith, Isaac Bonga, Aaron Nesmith (draft @ 12)
    Why the Wizards do it:
    Without Wall, we're seeing Beal isn't good enough to carry the load on his own, but he is a great player. Getting Embiid without having to give up much else would be a good get for them, especially if Wall isn't himself when he comes back. Rui needs a paint player with him around the edges. Honestly they are in the worse position of all these teams in this deal, because Wall is the fly in the drink so to speak. But through S&T they get Hield to act as a floor spacer with the slight hit to the draft position

    Sacramento Kings
    Starters: De'Aaron Fox, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Nicolas Batum, Davis Bertans, Richaun Holmes
    Key Role Players: Thomas Bryant, Zhaire Smith, Nemanja Bjelica, Marvin Bagley, Devin Vassell (draft @ 9)
    Why the Kings do it:
    In swapping Barnes for Batum they cut 3 years off the end of that deal, opening them up for financial flexibility in the future. Davis Bertans in for Hield allows them to trade out shooting for shooting but at a better position, and getting him via S&T allows the kings to let go of Bjelica or hold him for a modest return at the trade deadline. This puts a solid group of shooters around the Pick and Roll tandem of Fox and Holmes.

  11. #11
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    Seems like a good place for this:

    https://twitter.com/liberty_ballers/...381412865?s=21

    Brand picked coach over player. Fire him.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Seems like a good place for this:

    https://twitter.com/liberty_ballers/...381412865?s=21

    Brand picked coach over player. Fire him.
    Firing the coach the owner eats the money, trading a player the contract goes away. Can't conclusively blame the GM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Firing the coach the owner eats the money, trading a player the contract goes away. Can't conclusively blame the GM.
    Yea you can. We were going to eventually be a tax team either way. Plus he's one of the lowest paid coaches in the NBA at $2mil/year.

  14. #14
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    - Hinkie gets fired and cant see process through
    - Colangelo gets booked with a burner account gets fired
    - Over paying Harris
    - Giving up assets to get Butler, and then losing him for nothing even though he was the piece they needed
    - lost Reddick for nothing
    - Over paying Horford even though they have Embiid and Harris front court
    - building corner stones (Simmons&Embiid) dont compliment eachother well.
    - Staying stagnate with Coach Brown

    The good news is:

    - You can replace Brown
    - You have assets for a quick and swift rebuild
    - You have option: i.e Keep Simmons move Embiid, or keep Embiid and move Simmons, or Keep both and try to move Horford &Harris for a better supporting cast etc etc.

    It could be alot worse for the 76ers who had a string of bad luck and FO changes in the middle of a crucial rebuild. They have alot of ways to improve quickly.

  15. #15
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    I was the first one to call the Horford signing a terrible move. Almost like an unintentional poison pill contract with Boston letting him walk and letting the 6ers bite that bullet..

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