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  1. #1231
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoooooBull View Post
    Let's follow your logic using per 36... B/c you didn't look up the info, here you go.. per 36 whiteside is 20ppg 14rpg 3bpg 1apg. You see who's better. Even when you compare actual wcj play twice the time and averages four more point and one board. Possibly, The reason you think wings are needed is because of agressive defense which is undermined by not have a defensive anchor big body. Whiteside was a starter for a playoff team last year.
    The fact you think the bulls even have a remote chance to get the player you mentioned, idk what else to think youre just fantasy talking.
    I want wings because this team needs a 3 itís pretty obvious no? We have 1 interchangeable forward on this team teams need more unless you like seeing guys like Valentine and Arch getting significant minutes. Unfortunately Hutch hasnít been what the old regime thought he could be and Ottos body unfortunately just canít allow him to play any significant minutes these days. I want a more athletic versatile team that donít have to rely so much on someone else getting them shots P will is a hell of a start we need another guy like that.

    While Iím not a huge Per 36 fan Iím using it in this context to defend a 21 year old center who has talent. His biggest issue has been playing basketball when healthy heís not a liability are you acting like your trading him for Whiteside wasnít a ridiculous proposal? Like what front office in Nba would do that trade?

    And if we have this same conversation this time next year and wendell is still getting nagging injuries and hasnít developed offensively like I think he will in this scheme this could be an entire different conversation but for right now heís not a free agent.
    Last edited by Rndy; 02-27-2021 at 06:04 PM.

  2. #1232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rndy View Post
    I want wings because this team needs a 3 itís pretty obvious no? We have 1 interchangeable forward on this team teams need more unless you like seeing guys like Valentine and Arch getting significant minutes. Unfortunately Hutch hasnít been what the old regime thought he could be and Ottos body unfortunately just canít allow him to play any significant minutes these days. I want a more athletic versatile team that donít have to rely so much on someone else getting them shots P will is a hell of a start we need another guy like that.

    While Iím not a huge Per 36 fan Iím using it in this context to defend a 21 year old center who has talent. His biggest issue has been playing basketball when healthy heís not a liability are you acting like your trading him for Whiteside wasnít a ridiculous proposal? Like what front office in Nba would do that trade?

    And if we have this same conversation this time next year and wendell is still getting nagging injuries and hasnít developed offensively like I think he will in this scheme this could be an entire different conversation but for right now heís not a free agent.
    It seems that the bulls are able to get away with the wings they have now. Much prefer valentine than arch having playing time. You see they were able to keep close to a good suns team, but the weak points are center and pg, point blank.
    The question then becomes what do you do with wcj, he isn't comfortable at 5 like he said. So, do you go and try to pay a large premium for drummond and many have said. Then you expect wcj to stretch the floor which he showed not capable of doing, then when his contract expires what , you let him walk or try to panic trade him like Lauri ? The reason someone like whiteside was mentioned is experience small contract and you know what he can bring in a position that's needed. Another guy Vonleh is even more promising at center than wcj.
    Idk why any of the decisions made by the horrid previous front office should be trusted, but okay. What to do with wcj and who to pair him with b/c he doesn't look promising as a stretch four either.

  3. #1233
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoooooBull View Post
    It seems that the bulls are able to get away with the wings they have now. Much prefer valentine than arch having playing time. You see they were able to keep close to a good suns team, but the weak points are center and pg, point blank.
    The question then becomes what do you do with wcj, he isn't comfortable at 5 like he said. So, do you go and try to pay a large premium for drummond and many have said. Then you expect wcj to stretch the floor which he showed not capable of doing, then when his contract expires what , you let him walk or try to panic trade him like Lauri ? The reason someone like whiteside was mentioned is experience small contract and you know what he can bring in a position that's needed. Another guy Vonleh is even more promising at center than wcj.
    Idk why any of the decisions made by the horrid previous front office should be trusted, but okay. What to do with wcj and who to pair him with b/c he doesn't look promising as a stretch four either.
    They are getting away with it with bad teams the perimeter defense of this team is beyond awful and honestly when Lauri comes back our defense will likely be worse.

    I donít think wcj would be useful at any position but Center around the right team heís got good perimeter defense and solid post defense once our perimeter guys can actually stay in front of anyone I think his job becomes easier. Iím not against getting a Whiteside Noel type of back up for when we face teams with bigger centers being deep and versatile should be a goal here. My whole thing about our conversation was Iím just against getting rid of young players under rookie contracts where this team stands now unless youíre getting a long term asset

    Point guard is a big need not only for someone to run a half court offense but Coby has really played bad defense this season. Heís not going against back up guards anymore.
    Last edited by Rndy; 02-27-2021 at 11:03 PM.

  4. #1234
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    I talked about wanting Demar a lot for this upcoming fa before this season even started. Watching him continue to elevate as a true point forward in this league makes me want him even more.

    If we could get a point guard like dinwiddie/ball/Conley/Lowry and add Demar to play the 3.

    Fa Pg-Lavine-demar-pwill-wendell could give this team a very versatile offense and defense.

  5. #1235
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    Yeah we absolutely need a wing. The nice thing is, it could be a 3 or a versatile 4. Pat's versatility opened up options. Man if only we were in this position 1 year earlier. I feel like Pat and Jerami Grant would have been a filthy combo. Temple is a solid role player, and Denzel has had some good games, but neither should be starting when we are a finished product, and Valentine is a fringe rotational player. He's best suited for depth for the depth. A guy that backs up your backup SG and SF on a winning team. Not your 1st wing off the bench.

  6. #1236
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    Yeah we absolutely need a wing. The nice thing is, it could be a 3 or a versatile 4. Pat's versatility opened up options. Man if only we were in this position 1 year earlier. I feel like Pat and Jerami Grant would have been a filthy combo. Temple is a solid role player, and Denzel has had some good games, but neither should be starting when we are a finished product, and Valentine is a fringe rotational player. He's best suited for depth for the depth. A guy that backs up your backup SG and SF on a winning team. Not your 1st wing off the bench.
    Grant would fit like a glove here. Iíd try to make an offer for him but donít see a realistic possibility.

  7. #1237
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Grant would fit like a glove here. Iíd try to make an offer for him but donít see a realistic possibility.
    2 straight year the perfect PF and PG in Grant and Brogdon.

    Grant is sucha bargain for his production right now so itíd definitely be a hard sell. You never know though. They are so far from competing that getting assets for him might be worth it for Detroit. Maybe Lauri, Gafford, Hutch, some picks

  8. #1238
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    It's soooooo ridiculous comparing Wendell current stats to vets with 10 years experience, and saying that vet is better than him, lmfao!! Ya'll do realize Wendell just turned 21, right? The age a lot of guys get drafted?? And he's missed half the last two years with injuries. And has never averaged 30 minutes a night? Add in playing for the crappiest coach in the NBA in the worst offensive system.

    Whiteside is 31, Wendell is FAR more valuable, especially for a young team like the Bulls. Whiteside didn't start producing till 25, lmao! He's averaging an astounding 8 pts and 5.7 rebounds right now, that will surely turn us around.

    If you can definitively determine a NBA prospect's potential at 21 with accuracy, you should be scouting for the league, instead of posting in here. You're the greatest scout ever.

    Al Horford, the player Wendell is most compared to age 21: 10 pts, 9.7 rebounds, .9 blocks, .1 3pter's, 73% Free throw, .499 FG% made in 31 minutes. Didn't avg over .5 3pt attempts (not Makes) till age 29.

    Wendell age 21: 12.7 pts, 7 rebounds,.9 blocks, .9 3 pt attempts, 80% free throw, 55% FG in 27 minutes.
    Last edited by infinity2152; 02-28-2021 at 02:32 PM.

  9. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rndy View Post
    I want wings because this team needs a 3 itís pretty obvious no? We have 1 interchangeable forward on this team teams need more unless you like seeing guys like Valentine and Arch getting significant minutes. Unfortunately Hutch hasnít been what the old regime thought he could be and Ottos body unfortunately just canít allow him to play any significant minutes these days. I want a more athletic versatile team that donít have to rely so much on someone else getting them shots P will is a hell of a start we need another guy like that.

    While Iím not a huge Per 36 fan Iím using it in this context to defend a 21 year old center who has talent. His biggest issue has been playing basketball when healthy heís not a liability are you acting like your trading him for Whiteside wasnít a ridiculous proposal? Like what front office in Nba would do that trade?

    And if we have this same conversation this time next year and wendell is still getting nagging injuries and hasnít developed offensively like I think he will in this scheme this could be an entire different conversation but for right now heís not a free agent.
    There is a HUGE difference between WANT and NEED. We NEED a pg because we we just don't have an above average playmaking pg or wing for that matter. We NEED a center because we get **** on by any average center. We also don't get a ton of rebounds out of the Center position. We also have ZERO intimidation at the rim.

    The only reason you say we NEED a wing is because you WANT to move Lauri from the pf and then WANT another interchangeable wing there. That isn't a NEED but what some of ya'll WANT the team to be built like.

  10. #1240
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity2152 View Post
    It's soooooo ridiculous comparing Wendell current stats to vets with 10 years experience, and saying that vet is better than him, lmfao!! Ya'll do realize Wendell just turned 21, right? The age a lot of guys get drafted?? And he's missed half the last two years with injuries. And has never averaged 30 minutes a night? Add in playing for the crappiest coach in the NBA in the worst offensive system.

    Whiteside is 31, Wendell is FAR more valuable, especially for a young team like the Bulls. Whiteside didn't start producing till 25, lmao! He's averaging an astounding 8 pts and 5.7 rebounds right now, that will surely turn us around.

    If you can definitively determine a NBA prospect's potential at 21 with accuracy, you should be scouting for the league, instead of posting in here. You're the greatest scout ever.

    Al Horford, the player Wendell is most compared to age 21: 10 pts, 9.7 rebounds, .9 blocks, .1 3pter's made in 31 minutes. Guess they should have traded him immediately.
    Not even close to the same situation. Al Horford didn't get the blocks but you didn't get many opportunities going to the rim when he wasn't there. Al Horford was a very good rebounder coming into the league. Al Horford maybe didn't have a 3 point shot yet but he was one of the better mid range shooting bigs. I Also don't think Atlanta had to worry about average at best bigs getting 20 and 10 on a regular either.

    Carter fumbles passes all of the time. Probably has the worst set of hands I've seen in some years. In 14 out of his 21 games, he is under his season average on rebounds. That's terribly inconsistent. That's 2/3 of his games. To be honest if he didn't have the 17 and 15 rebound games he would probably be under 7 rebounds a game as we speak. No one is saying he can't or even won't get better but you can clearly see he isn't it for this team. If Zach was on his 1st contract you could have the patience with Carter but he isn't.

  11. #1241
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownbullsBG7 View Post
    Not even close to the same situation. Al Horford didn't get the blocks but you didn't get many opportunities going to the rim when he wasn't there. Al Horford was a very good rebounder coming into the league. Al Horford maybe didn't have a 3 point shot yet but he was one of the better mid range shooting bigs. I Also don't think Atlanta had to worry about average at best bigs getting 20 and 10 on a regular either.

    Carter fumbles passes all of the time. Probably has the worst set of hands I've seen in some years. In 14 out of his 21 games, he is under his season average on rebounds. That's terribly inconsistent. That's 2/3 of his games. To be honest if he didn't have the 17 and 15 rebound games he would probably be under 7 rebounds a game as we speak. No one is saying he can't or even won't get better but you can clearly see he isn't it for this team. If Zach was on his 1st contract you could have the patience with Carter but he isn't.
    Carter still has 2 more years on his rookie contract and is in his first year playing with a real coach. Horford averaged 10 rebounds in 31 minutes at 21, Wendell averaged 9.4 in 29 minutes at 20. Rebounding is down but so are his minutes, so that's to be expected. We also have stronger rebounders playing with him, we played 3 guard line ups most of last year, we didn't have a SF. There are NO centers you can trade Wendell for that will instantly make us a contender, especially not 8pts, 5 rebound 31 year old Whiteside who'd be getting replaced fairly quickly. How many centers are actually dominating anyway? 4, 5 maybe?

    I was seeing all this same bs about Lonzo two months ago before he started picking it up, first he wasn't good enough to trade for, now he'll cost too much to get him. Selling your first round picks before they develop, when you KNOW you drafted 19 year old projects is insane. Very few players are Lebron, Kobe, KG, dominating at 20 years old. And those few dominate through physicality, they're still developing skills.

    And if you think Wendell has the worst set of hands, you must change the channel when Gafford play, lmao! As for him being under his season average 14 games, how many of those games did he play his full minutes? he's been on minute restrictions coming back from injuries, have to use context. Not sure a lot of bad rebounders get 17 rebounds, period, regardless of how often.
    Last edited by infinity2152; 02-28-2021 at 02:54 PM.

  12. #1242
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    2 straight year the perfect PF and PG in Grant and Brogdon.

    Grant is sucha bargain for his production right now so itíd definitely be a hard sell. You never know though. They are so far from competing that getting assets for him might be worth it for Detroit. Maybe Lauri, Gafford, Hutch, some picks
    Donít think thatís enough salary to match up. Iíd offer something like Lauri, sato, 2021 1st round (top 3 protected), future 1st top 10 protected. Probably doesnít get it done but worth a shot I guess

  13. #1243
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity2152 View Post
    Carter still has 2 more years on his rookie contract and is in his first year playing with a real coach. Horford averaged 10 rebounds in 31 minutes at 21, Wendell averaged 9.4 in 29 minutes at 20. Rebounding is down but so are his minutes, so that's to be expected. We also have stronger rebounders playing with him, we played 3 guard line ups most of last year, we didn't have a SF. There are NO centers you can trade Wendell for that will instantly make us a contender, especially not 8pts, 5 rebound 31 year old Whiteside who'd be getting replaced fairly quickly. How many centers are actually dominating anyway? 4, 5 maybe?

    I was seeing all this same bs about Lonzo two months ago before he started picking it up, first he wasn't good enough to trade for, now he'll cost too much to get him. Selling your first round picks before they develop, when you KNOW you drafted 19 year old projects is insane. Very few players are Lebron, Kobe, KG, dominating at 20 years old. And those few dominate through physicality, they're still developing skills.

    And if you think Wendell has the worst set of hands, you must change the channel when Gafford play, lmao! As for him being under his season average 14 games, how many of those games did he play his full minutes? he's been on minute restrictions coming back from injuries, have to use context. Not sure a lot of bad rebounders get 17 rebounds, period, regardless of how often.
    Again you aren't on a timeline to see if Wendell will produce more or better at the age of 24 or 25. Zach is ready to win now? So what are you going to do? Are you going to sit on your hands and hope Zach stays. This man only Talks about winning. He isn't staying to watch Coby and Wendell take 3 more years to HOPEFULLY develop.

    Then on top of that, AKME has ZERO reason to wait for anyone on this roster outside of PWILL to develop. These aren't his guys. The only safe people are probably Zach and PWILL. Management tried to trade Wendell in the draft to move up. The coach doesn't play him much in crunch time. That should tell you everything.

    I wanted Lonzo so i don't even know why it's relevant. He fits next to Zach.

  14. #1244
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Grant would fit like a glove here. Iíd try to make an offer for him but donít see a realistic possibility.
    Detroit is in full tank mode, so who knows... but I doubt they'd move him, and if they did it'd take a haul.

  15. #1245
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoooooBull View Post
    Let's follow your logic using per 36... B/c you didn't look up the info, here you go.. per 36 whiteside is 20ppg 14rpg 3bpg 1apg. You see who's better. Even when you compare actual wcj play twice the time and averages four more point and one board. Possibly, The reason you think wings are needed is because of agressive defense which is undermined by not have a defensive anchor big body. Whiteside was a starter for a playoff team last year.
    The fact you think the bulls even have a remote chance to get the player you mentioned, idk what else to think youre just fantasy talking.
    I don't think using per 36 numbers on guys like Cam Payne makes any sense. Even moreso for Whiteside. Of course Whiteside is dominating playing 15 minutes against backups.

    There's a reason he's bounced around lately. There's a reason he signed a minimum deal this year. There's a reason the playoff team he started for didn't sign him for that same minimum. You see how far his production dropped in the playoffs?

    Anyone who suggests trading a 21 year old center, who at worst is a productive rotational big, for a guy you can likely sign for the minimum next year, probably doesn't know basketball enough to tell tell others they don't.

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