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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Stroman has been a major disappointment, Diaz was awful last year and blew 2 games in a 60 game season. Cano has been injured twice and playing great in 17 games this year.
    I feel like myself and YS already posted this but over Cano's last 60 games back to last season, he has an OPS over .900. He's clearly been better since his mediocre start last year. Diaz is striking out 20 batters per 9 innings this year, has a XFIP of 1.45 and is still 26 years old. Dude is not done.

    Stroman was mediocre but again no one could have predicted a global pandemic in which he wouldn't pitch at all this year. Its not hot garbage either way. That move was clearly made to mitigate the fact that the Mets weren't going to pay Wheeler.
    Last edited by metswon69; 08-23-2020 at 09:55 PM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I feel like myself and YS already posted this but over Cano's last 60 games back to last season, he has an OPS over .900. He's clearly been better since his mediocre start last year. Diaz is striking out 20 batters per 9 innings this year, has a XFIP of 1.45 and is still 26 years old. Dude is not done.

    Stroman was mediocre but again no one could have predicted a global pandemic in which he wouldn't pitch at all this year. Its not hot garbage either way. That move was clearly made to mitigate the fact that the Mets weren't going to pay Wheeler.
    Simple question, would you rather have Kelenic, Dunn, Jake Scheiner, Arodys Vizcaíno and Jesse Biddle plus 20 + million or Diaz and Cano? Cano was a major disappointment last year and this year he has played in 17 games. With that 20 million the Mets could have signed Wheeler or someone else.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Simple question, would you rather have Kelenic, Dunn, Jake Scheiner, Arodys Vizcaíno and Jesse Biddle plus 20 + million or Diaz and Cano? Cano was a major disappointment last year and this year he has played in 17 games. With that 20 million the Mets could have signed Wheeler or someone else.
    Making up arbitrary moves the Mets might not have made even without those trades doesn't really sway me either way. Most of the time teams don't make moves fans hope they make. If I had a choice, I take Kelenic and the money back but I'm not going to be unfair to Diaz and Cano. They can still help this team now and even in the foreseeable future.

    Yeah they could have re-signed Wheeler. They also could have done exactly what they did this offseason.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Making up arbitrary moves the Mets might not have made even without those trades doesn't really sway me either way. Most of the time teams don't make moves fans hope they make. If I had a choice, I take Kelenic and the money back but I'm not going to be unfair to Diaz and Cano. They can still help this team now and even in the foreseeable future.

    Yeah they could have re-signed Wheeler. They also could have done exactly what they did this offseason.
    Diaz was awful last year. Cano is worth more this year in 17 games than all of last year.

    And if they did exactly what they did this off season, they would be in the same position as they are in right now. On the outside looking in.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Diaz was awful last year. Cano is worth more this year in 17 games than all of last year.

    And if they did exactly what they did this off season, they would be in the same position as they are in right now. On the outside looking in.
    Diaz has been good this year and he still has the ability to be the guy they acquired. Cano has hit well since the 2nd half of last year and can help this team going forward.

    They are closer to being a playoff team with those guys than without.

  6. #96
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    The problem, the Zen Master will tell us, is that this is a wasted season. Cano is hitting the hell out of the ball when few of us care. Baseball likely will resume in earnest next season. Then what, Mr Cano, who will be another year older?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I wouldn't call Cano, Diaz and Stroman hot garbage. Cano has been hitting really well since the 2nd half of last year, Diaz still has the ability to be a lights out closer and Stroman was supposed to be a piece to get them to the playoffs this year before the pandemic hit.

    It hasn't worked out that way but I would rather go down trying than not.
    You know how I've felt about the Cano and Diaz trade from day one. It was a horrific trade from the start and there is no way anyone can look at it in retrospect and consider it anything but an unmitigated disaster. The only saving grace is that we end up with a new owner that doesn't let the Cano contract cripple us for another few years - but that has nothing to do with BVWs ability as a GM.

    The Stroman trade was overkill last year. He traded away assets to get a luxury arm that added very little down the stretch - and he did it as Wheeler insurance. So my question is, once it was clear the Wilpons would be selling the team, why not just resign Wheeler?

    I don't know how much of these moves were BVW or Jeffy, but I do know BVW was his hand picked bro. And the overall body of work is crap.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    You know how I've felt about the Cano and Diaz trade from day one. It was a horrific trade from the start and there is no way anyone can look at it in retrospect and consider it anything but an unmitigated disaster. The only saving grace is that we end up with a new owner that doesn't let the Cano contract cripple us for another few years - but that has nothing to do with BVWs ability as a GM.

    The Stroman trade was overkill last year. He traded away assets to get a luxury arm that added very little down the stretch - and he did it as Wheeler insurance. So my question is, once it was clear the Wilpons would be selling the team, why not just resign Wheeler?

    I don't know how much of these moves were BVW or Jeffy, but I do know BVW was his hand picked bro. And the overall body of work is crap.
    I do and you're right it was a bad trade. i told Clay the same thing last year. It was trying to find a silver lining because Cano and Diaz can still be productive assets. i am not disagreeing with that part. I just think its not entirely fair to call those guys garbage.

    As for Stroman, yeah the Mets made the deal as a way to cushion the blow of Wheeler walking, which they knew at the time of the trade they were moving on from. The pandemic ruined any chances of that guy contributing this year. I know we are a lot more confident about this teams world series chances if Thor and Stroman are here.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I do and you're right it was a bad trade. i told Clay the same thing last year. It was trying to find a silver lining because Cano and Diaz can still be productive assets. i am not disagreeing with that part. I just think its not entirely fair to call those guys garbage.

    As for Stroman, yeah the Mets made the deal as a way to cushion the blow of Wheeler walking, which they knew at the time of the trade they were moving on from. The pandemic ruined any chances of that guy contributing this year. I know we are a lot more confident about this teams world series chances if Thor and Stroman are here.
    I'd be more confident with Wheeler still here. Can't blame Stroman or anyone else IMO for how they handle 2020 - that's their prerogative in an unprecedented situation. I can however blame BVW and the Wilpons for having no intelligent plan or approach to running the organization. Incompetence over time becomes a moon sized crater of failure. That's what we're staring at unless a new owner like Cohen steps in, cleans house, and infuses a lot of cash into the team to correct the deficiencies.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    I'd be more confident with Wheeler still here. Can't blame Stroman or anyone else IMO for how they handle 2020 - that's their prerogative in an unprecedented situation. I can however blame BVW and the Wilpons for having no intelligent plan or approach to running the organization. Incompetence over time becomes a moon sized crater of failure. That's what we're staring at unless a new owner like Cohen steps in, cleans house, and infuses a lot of cash into the team to correct the deficiencies.
    I agree, but the problems aren't just with free agency. It's creating a pipeline of talent that can withstand an onslaught of injuries. Actually develop an analytics department, not one for show. I could go on, but if Cohen needs to blow it up to make a dramatic improvements, then so be it. I was hoping we wouldn't have to do that after Sandy but then Brodie reared his head.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    I agree, but the problems aren't just with free agency. It's creating a pipeline of talent that can withstand an onslaught of injuries. Actually develop an analytics department, not one for show. I could go on, but if Cohen needs to blow it up to make a dramatic improvements, then so be it. I was hoping we wouldn't have to do that after Sandy but then Brodie reared his head.
    I disagreed with a good deal of what Alderson did here but I never disputed his methodical way of building up younger talent. And then BVW came in and just decided to go through it with a chain saw.

    The only common denominator is the Wilpons. Once they're gone I fully expect a comprehensive approach to rebuilding this organization in a sustainable way,

    Don't worry. He's got this.

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