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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Not even close to the biggest whiff of all time but one that I argued with my brother in law over was when the Knicks took Kevin Knox over Michael Porter Jr. That one is really starting to hurt. MPjr looks great.
    IMO. a lot has to do with the development assistance each team can provide to rookies, in NY they seem to blow it with rookies, not because the talent isn't there, but because they seem to lack the support provision a rookie requires.

    IMO, neither Knox or Ntilikina ever were bad choices, especially at the position they were drafted. If they would have been drafted with another team, I think they would have been developed much better by now.

    Knox was projected by draft reports to have a KD ceiling and Ntilikina is a stunning defender with highly creative basketball IQ, very good athleticism and great court vision... His shot mechanics look great too, it therefore seems to me that it is the team doing something wrong...

    Heck, which rookie did ever have success after drafted by the Knicks in recent years anyway? They've even parted with Porzingis!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Not even close to the biggest whiff of all time but one that I argued with my brother in law over was when the Knicks took Kevin Knox over Michael Porter Jr. That one is really starting to hurt. MPjr looks great.
    Him and Bol Bol will be studs, theyíve always been at the top of their class. Canít believe so many people passed on both, especially Bol falling into mid-2nd round where we drafted then traded him 😔

    Denver is going to be tough
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    8/24/2

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    Of course everyone thinks immediately of Portland picking Bowie over Jordan but I think the Bagley over Luka thing is going to haunt Sacramento for ever also. Here are my top draft day disasters:

    1. Portland
    Bowie over Jordan

    2. Portland
    Oden over Durrant

    3. Sacramento
    Bagley over Luka
    It's way too early to tell on Bagley, who looks like he'll be a decent player. If this is a retrospective, how about Cleveland drafting Anthony Bennett over Giannis? A guy who played 151 meaningless games over four seasons instead of a perennial MVP and DPOY candidate. A lot of teams whiffed on Giannis, but none nearly as hard as Cleveland.
    As for Portland, we all know who the king of draft-day ****-ups is. I'll give my top five:
    1. Bowie over Jordan
    2. Oden over Durant
    3. LaRue Martin over Julius Erving or Bob McAdoo in 1972. This one is closer to Oden over Durant than you think.
    4. Drafting Moses Malone, then trading him for $350,000 and a pick that became Herm Gilliam. JFC, you cheap bastards.
    5a.Wally Walker over Robert Parish
    5b. Trading down from the third to sixth pick in 2005, taking Martell Webster instead of Chris Paul.

  4. #34
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    Darko over Wade, Pistons couldíve won 5-6 in a row and Wade would be considered better than MJ.
    <a href=https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7 target=_blank>https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7</a>

    8/24/2

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    It's way too early to tell on Bagley, who looks like he'll be a decent player. If this is a retrospective, how about Cleveland drafting Anthony Bennett over Giannis? A guy who played 151 meaningless games over four seasons instead of a perennial MVP and DPOY candidate. A lot of teams whiffed on Giannis, but none nearly as hard as Cleveland.
    As for Portland, we all know who the king of draft-day ****-ups is. I'll give my top five:
    1. Bowie over Jordan
    2. Oden over Durant
    3. LaRue Martin over Julius Erving or Bob McAdoo in 1972. This one is closer to Oden over Durant than you think.
    4. Drafting Moses Malone, then trading him for $350,000 and a pick that became Herm Gilliam. JFC, you cheap bastards.
    5a.Wally Walker over Robert Parish
    5b. Trading down from the third to sixth pick in 2005, taking Martell Webster instead of Chris Paul.
    If there was one team that really blew it from all respects in the 2013 draft, that was Orlando... Not only they didn't draft Giannis but passed like the other 13 did, but they picked the 2nd best after Giannis on Olandipo and ...traded him to Indy... Then, they hired the Bucks GM in 2017 exactly because he picked Giannis back in 2013 (and also traded for Middleton) and are hoping that there will be another like Giannis at sometime and Jon Hammond (the ex-bucks GM who they hired to be theirs) will be able to forsee and pick him!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    It's way too early to tell on Bagley, who looks like he'll be a decent player. If this is a retrospective, how about Cleveland drafting Anthony Bennett over Giannis? A guy who played 151 meaningless games over four seasons instead of a perennial MVP and DPOY candidate. A lot of teams whiffed on Giannis, but none nearly as hard as Cleveland.
    As for Portland, we all know who the king of draft-day ****-ups is. I'll give my top five:
    1. Bowie over Jordan
    2. Oden over Durant
    3. LaRue Martin over Julius Erving or Bob McAdoo in 1972. This one is closer to Oden over Durant than you think.
    4. Drafting Moses Malone, then trading him for $350,000 and a pick that became Herm Gilliam. JFC, you cheap bastards.
    5a.Wally Walker over Robert Parish
    5b. Trading down from the third to sixth pick in 2005, taking Martell Webster instead of Chris Paul.
    I think even if we aren't using retrospect, the Luka over bagley thing can be considered not great. Bagley had some questions and Luka was considered by some as a stud. And Luka was actually playing at a high level in a high level league. It's not like giannis or even a Darko who were more physical specimen type wild cards. I would have taken Luka first that year but didn't have a huge issue with ayton. Bagley over Luka was just bad at the time, almost regardless of what bagley becomes.

    To me, Darko was the biggest whiff I can remember even at the time. I'm okay when teams go for uncertain upside in most drafts, but that draft was loaded. Say what you want about the Melo of the last few years, but draft day Melo was a really, really good prospect. He goes first most years. Taking Darko mostly because of his workouts was a foolish move at the time and still is. Like the year Bargnani went first, I was okay with that Aldridge was a solid prospect, but it was a pretty questionable top of the class. So trying to find upside made sense. But Melo was a damn good prospect with a super high floor and a high ceiling. Darko had the ceiling, but a much lower floor, as Detroit found out.

    Other than that I hesitate to call alot of whiffs. Guys like giannis and kawhi aren't really whiffs. Both guys developed, but realistically, the level they got to should not have been the expectation for the most likely scenario on draft day. And that's the best way to analyze guys on draft day. Look at the upside, look at the downside and try to estimate a range of where the guy lands. Figure out the most likely scenario and use that as a guideline and understand your risk willingness. Some guys have really wide error bars, some guys are tighter.

    Occasionally, guys will exceed expectations like a giannis or kawhi or Pascal siakam and so on. Use those examples to see if there's something wrong with your process, but you can't beat yourself up too much on some of those guys. Because for every one of those guys, there's 10 somewhat similar guys who never do anything.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 08-06-2020 at 02:05 PM.

  7. #37
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    Michael Olowokandi #1 overall over Vince Carter, Dirk, Pierce, Bibby.

  8. #38
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    Top Draft Whiffs of All-Time

    Quote Originally Posted by mouseslept View Post
    IMO. a lot has to do with the development assistance each team can provide to rookies, in NY they seem to blow it with rookies, not because the talent isn't there, but because they seem to lack the support provision a rookie requires.

    IMO, neither Knox or Ntilikina ever were bad choices, especially at the position they were drafted. If they would have been drafted with another team, I think they would have been developed much better by now.

    Knox was projected by draft reports to have a KD ceiling and Ntilikina is a stunning defender with highly creative basketball IQ, very good athleticism and great court vision... His shot mechanics look great too, it therefore seems to me that it is the team doing something wrong...

    Heck, which rookie did ever have success after drafted by the Knicks in recent years anyway? They've even parted with Porzingis!
    Frank is a PG that canít shoot or drive and has the demeanor of a battered women. . Knoxs is low motor and came into the league lacking physical strength. MPJ is better today then either of those guy will ever be. When the Knicks draft well the players do fine- KP, Mitch Robinson, even Dotson
    I still think Knox has a shot to grow into a starter I just doubt it


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    Darko over Wade, Pistons couldíve won 5-6 in a row and Wade would be considered better than MJ.
    I always thought Travis Diener was better then either of those guys


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I always thought Travis Diener was better then either of those guys


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    He is and heís still showing it in that TBT tournament every summer lol
    <a href=https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7 target=_blank>https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7</a>

    8/24/2

  11. #41
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    I'm still furious over the Celtics having Dallas draft Olynyk over Giannis for them... didn't know Giannis would be the MVP level type but it was no contest for me back then.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    He is and heís still showing it in that TBT tournament every summer lol
    Not surprised. Could always tell he was a gym rat


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

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