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  1. #46
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    Who’s better or impacts winning more, Gobert or Mitchell? Mitchell has a better scoring skillset but Jazz fans will tell you Gobert is the better player.
    <a href=https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7 target=_blank>https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7</a>

    8/24/2

  2. #47
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    I just checked siakams stats, he was more efficient than bam now, in last year's secondary role. So we have proof Pascal can thrive if given that kind of role and given his superior skillset as a scorer, he's clearly the better player offensively. In that role, his defense might be better too but idk.

    What's funny is checking siakams stats the last 2 years, statistically he's actually worse or the same, just getting more shots off. his PER has barely changed, meaning by their very lenient standards on the cost-reward/usage-efficiency trade of, it's not really changing much. Which to me is a bad sign, per and usage are highly correlative so an increase in 1 but not the other isn't that impressive, certainly not mip worthy.

    By barometers that actually value efficiency, he's undoubtedly playing worse.

    Idk about the impact stats but I'd wager he's prolly better in those numbers, he's gotta be getting more defensive attention

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I just checked siakams stats, he was more efficient than bam now, in last year's secondary role. So we have proof Pascal can thrive if given that kind of role and given his superior skillset as a scorer, he's clearly the better player offensively. In that role, his defense might be better too but idk.

    What's funny is checking siakams stats the last 2 years, statistically he's actually worse or the same, just getting more shots off. his PER has barely changed, meaning by their very lenient standards on the cost-reward/usage-efficiency trade of, it's not really changing much. Which to me is a bad sign, per and usage are highly correlative so an increase in 1 but not the other isn't that impressive, certainly not mip worthy.

    By barometers that actually value efficiency, he's undoubtedly playing worse.

    Idk about the impact stats but I'd wager he's prolly better in those numbers, he's gotta be getting more defensive attention
    From what I’ve seen and posted Bam has a higher impact
    <a href=https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7 target=_blank>https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7</a>

    8/24/2

  4. #49
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    I meant siakams impact metrics vs himself last year

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I meant siakams impact metrics vs himself last year
    My bad, from what I’m seeing it looks like Siakams impact has taken a slight dip this year as opposed to last. Not very much at all though.
    <a href=https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7 target=_blank>https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7</a>

    8/24/2

  6. #51
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    Siakam was playing at a really high level to start the year and then slowed down with teams giving him more attention. He's working through it and the growing pains are expected when you go from a number 2/3 to a primary scorer.

    I can see the argument for Bam. I'm a huge fan but I like Siakam's upside better.

    Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    Bam Basic: 16.2-10.4-5.1-1.2-1.3 on 11 FGA at 57% shooting, 8% from 3, 69% from the free throw.
    Bam Advanced: 20.6 PER, 61%TS, 21 usage, 4.7OWS, 3.7DWS, 8.4WS, .175 WS/48, 1.6OBPM, 2.0DBPM, 3.6BPM, 3.2VORP

    Siakam Basic: 23.5-7.5-3.6-1-.09 on 19FGA at 46% shooting, 37% from 3, 81% from the free throw.
    Siakim Advanced: 18.6 PER, 56%TS, 28 usage, 2.1OWS, 3.4DWS, 5.5WS, .135 WS/48, 1.7OBPM, 0.6DBPM, 2.3WS, 2.2VORP

    The reigning MIP vs this years soon to be MIP. Watching Bam completely lock up Siakam for the 2nd or 3rd time this season had me thinking about this again (I’ve thought Bam was better all year, especially after Siakams hot start came to an end). It looks to me Siakim is only better when it comes to shooting from 3 and the free throw but Bam is better at everything else and his impact destroys Siakams. I think we see with Bam next year what we’ve saw with Siakam this year as well in terms of competing for MIP for consecutive seasons.

    Who is the better player?
    You are using head to head numbers oddly. Sample size is incredibly small and defense is a 5 on 5 game. Siakam was locked down with 22 points on 50% shooting? While Bam had 10 points? I dont but your hyperbole.

    Interesting video on the matchup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxEFl8P_RZk

    I love Bam and wish he was a Raptor, but your analysis is clearly biased.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    You are using head to head numbers oddly. Sample size is incredibly small and defense is a 5 on 5 game. Siakam was locked down with 22 points on 50% shooting? While Bam had 10 points? I dont but your hyperbole.

    Interesting video on the matchup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxEFl8P_RZk

    I love Bam and wish he was a Raptor, but your analysis is clearly biased.
    Those were their season stats not head to head.

    Bam didn’t guard Siakam in the 1st quarter when he was going off, he disappeared when Bam switched on him.

    Bam said he lost sleep because he wasn’t as aggressive as he should’ve been that game because we were getting so many open looks so against Boston he absolutely dominated and fouled Smart out
    <a href=https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7 target=_blank>https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7</a>

    8/24/2

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    Those were their season stats not head to head.

    Bam didn’t guard Siakam in the 1st quarter when he was going off, he disappeared when Bam switched on him.

    Bam said he lost sleep because he wasn’t as aggressive as he should’ve been that game because we were getting so many open looks so against Boston he absolutely dominated and fouled Smart out
    He is a great defender and I've seen him lock down a variety of guys. Maybe I misread your statement. Siakam is also an exceptional defender who switches everywhere too. Two of the most exciting young NBA players for the modern, positionless game. Siakam is clearly further along offensively. Defensively, I'm fine conceding Bam, but the difference isn't as large as on the offensive end IMO.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I just checked siakams stats, he was more efficient than bam now, in last year's secondary role. So we have proof Pascal can thrive if given that kind of role and given his superior skillset as a scorer, he's clearly the better player offensively. In that role, his defense might be better too but idk.

    What's funny is checking siakams stats the last 2 years, statistically he's actually worse or the same, just getting more shots off. his PER has barely changed, meaning by their very lenient standards on the cost-reward/usage-efficiency trade of, it's not really changing much. Which to me is a bad sign, per and usage are highly correlative so an increase in 1 but not the other isn't that impressive, certainly not mip worthy.

    By barometers that actually value efficiency, he's undoubtedly playing worse.

    Idk about the impact stats but I'd wager he's prolly better in those numbers, he's gotta be getting more defensive attention
    With Kawhi gone and Siakam now being the focal point in the offense, hes getting way more attention from defences..

    You have to consider the fact that Siakam proved he can be the 2nd option on a championship squad. That has to account for something. Also the fact that we lost Kawhi and the Raptors didnt slide, infact before the shut down the team was one win better than last season with Kawhi.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    From what I’ve seen and posted Bam has a higher impact
    Youre biased lol

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    So Siakam is a better scorer, other than that what does he do better than Bam?
    If he was only a better scorer and a poor defender then Id agree with you. But his ofensive arsenal is better and his defence is still pretty dam good. So when you consider both sides of the ball Id give the edge to Siakam right now. Also if you consider the fact that Siakam has already won a ship as a 2nd/3rd option I think he def has less to prove.

    This goes back to role& team need, Siakam doesnt need to be a defensive anchor because we have Gasol/Ibaka for that. But Siakam can also guard 1-5 on the perimiter or in the paint if need be. Hes proven it in the past.

    But again Bam is still improving so we should revisit this in a couple years when hes fully developed. He could become the more impactfull player when all is said and done.

    I actually think a Siakam/Bam front court would work really well together in terms of their respective skillsets.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 08-05-2020 at 09:15 PM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Youre biased lol
    What lol? Maybe so but I posted the numbers showing his impact was higher lol
    <a href=https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7 target=_blank>https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7</a>

    8/24/2

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    If he was only a better scorer and a poor defender then Id agree with you. But his ofensive arsenal is better and his defence is still pretty dam good. So when you consider both sides of the ball Id give the edge to Siakam right now. Also if you consider the fact that Siakam has already won a ship as a 2nd/3rd option I think he def has less to prove.

    This goes back to role& team need, Siakam doesnt need to be a defensive anchor because we have Gasol/Ibaka for that. But Siakam can also guard 1-5 on the perimiter or in the paint if need be. Hes proven it in the past.

    But again Bam is still improving so we should revisit this in a couple years when hes fully developed. He could become the more impactfull player when all is said and done.

    I actually think a Siakam/Bam front court would work really well together in terms of their respective skillsets.
    We’re going to see that duo on steroids in 2021 but instead of Siakam next to Bam it will be Giannis!!
    <a href=https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7 target=_blank>https://images.app.goo.gl/RaiMUpUeDMoeqDZt7</a>

    8/24/2

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    What lol? Maybe so but I posted the numbers showing his impact was higher lol
    More impactfull than winning a ship as a 2nd option? Thats yet to be seen.

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