OFFICIAL G.O.A.T Peak Rankings - #13

[KnicksorBust]

Generally when discussing the GOAT player it is important that you look at their career. MVPs / Rings / All-NBA Teams / etc. But this ranking throws all that out the window. 1 game. At their absolute best. Who you taking?

#1.) Michael Jordan
#2.) LeBron James
#3.) Shaquille O'Neal
#4.) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#5.) Wilt Chamberlain
#6.) Larry Bird
#7.) Hakeem Olajuwon
#8.) Magic Johnson
#9.) Tim Duncan
#10.) Moses Malone
#11.) Bill Russell
#12.) Kawhi Leonard
#13.)
#14.)
#15.)
#16.)
#17.)
#18.)
#19.)
#20.)
#21.)
#22.)
#23.)
#24.)
#25.)

[KnicksorBust]

After narrowly missing his shot at #12, does Kevin Durant snag #13?

[More-Than-Most]

After narrowly missing his shot at #12, does Kevin Durant snag #13?

he def should but people are stupid tbh... they worry about his decision to leave but ignore the teams around jordan/magic/kobes and so on down the list.... hell if anything duncan should be the goat then... duncan won how many rings with parker and gino? imagine if he had pippen or kobe or so on down the list... jesus

[Iggie]

he def should but people are stupid tbh... they worry about his decision to leave but ignore the teams around jordan/magic/kobes and so on down the list.... hell if anything duncan should be the goat then... duncan won how many rings with parker and gino? imagine if he had pippen or kobe or so on down the list... jesus

I mean Duncan is a top 7 player or so for a reason lol

[JAZZNC]

he def should but people are stupid tbh... they worry about his decision to leave but ignore the teams around jordan/magic/kobes and so on down the list.... hell if anything duncan should be the goat then... duncan won how many rings with parker and gino? imagine if he had pippen or kobe or so on down the list... jesus

Please never compare those other players teams to the te KD joined. I know you love to love KD because it helps your narrative that Curry is a horrible player but this is ridiculous. Take Jordan, Kobe, Magic away from any team they were ever on and they win a total of zero rings and never do they win 60+ games much less 73. Unfortunately we will never know what a prime KD could do because during his prime he was either bowing out and blowing a 3-1 lead like a ***** or he was getting the same attention as TJ Warren.....***** please, this isn't a comparison man. KD should not be in the discussion yet.

[More-Than-Most]

Please never compare those other players teams to the te KD joined. I know you love to love KD because it helps your narrative that Curry is a horrible player but this is ridiculous. Take Jordan, Kobe, Magic away from any team they were ever on and they win a total of zero rings and never do they win 60+ games much less 73. Unfortunately we will never know what a prime KD could do because during his prime he was either bowing out and blowing a 3-1 lead like a ***** or he was getting the same attention as TJ Warren.....***** please, this isn't a comparison man. KD should not be in the discussion yet.

i wont hold it against curry being a top 15 player ever or 10 ever when its all said and done has well... holding he joined a top team against him but then having guys who played on stacked *** teams as all time greats is honestly stupid... durant was never the 2nd best player on his team... he was the guy even on the warriors. This logic just baffles me... I guess kobe shouldnt be in the top 10 ever then correct? I mean he forced his way to LA and played 3 of his titles with shaq? See you either use the argument for all or dont use it period

if durant was drafted by the warriors and led them with curry/dray/klay then it would be ok right? totally legit logic


also curry with klay and dray begged durant to join even saying he would take a backseat to durant... should we hold this against curry as well? i mean begging the 2nd best player in basketball to help you take down 1 guy is a little silly isnt it? does this now mean lebron--------> MJ considering MJ was never so god like that an arguable top 3 player along with 2 other top 15 players at the time had to beg a top 2 player to come help them beat big bad lebron.

[Chronz]

Im leaning Kobe 09 or Wade 09, not sure.

Looking more into the Durant case, this is where the parameters of your game matter. As a secondary star, KD is among the goats by virtue of being a 7ft sniper and having a good enough floor game to kill you on closeouts other ways. Off the ball, why wouldn't you want KD? 1v1 hes unguardable individually, BUT if hes the guy actually doing the heavy lifting and carrying the offense as its fulcrom with the brunt of the defense focused on stopping him above all, hes not as special. Hes always been at his best when surrounded by multiple playmakers that keep his decision making to a minimum. I mean, the playoffs the Dubs ran through everyone he posted a ridiculous 68 TS%. His best non-Warriors year was 63%, unsurprisingly it was the year he made the Finals as the teams best player but with 2 HOF level playmakers in Harden and RWB (both would go on to lead the league in assists once granted a greater role).

That said, I think other stars can approximate that value as a secondary star in a spaced out offense but provide more as the hub of an offense, Curry included. And I dont even have Curry next.

Still focusing more on the Curry vs KD case, I checked out the on/off data again. Heres the raw per36 numbers for KD:

Year One
With Curry: 27.1PTS (66.5 TS%) - 5AST/2.2 t.o. (+16.2)
W/Out Curry: 26.9PTS (61.3 TS%) - 5.9AST/3.0 t.o. (+1.6)

Year Two (Thx to injuries, he spent roughly half his time with Curry)
With Curry: 26.1PTS (67.8 TS%) - 5.5AST/2.2 t.o (+9.9).
W/Out Curry: 29.6PTS (60.7 TS%) - 5.8AST/3.4 t.o. (+0.4)

Year Three (1866Mins with vs 835 without)
With Curry: 24.4PTS (65.4 TS%) - 5.8AST/2.7 t.o. (+12.7)
W/Out Curry: 32.8PTS (59.7 TS%) - 6.7AST/3.7 t.o. (0.0)

The loss in efficiency is for the reasons you would think, less layups, less corner 3's, more mid range jumpers and an increased playmaking load that naturally leads to more turnovers. Tho for him the playmaking uptick is hardly worth the trade off. That final year was when KD was reluctant to run the team offense full time and went more into iso mode. He kind of took away from teammates that year, its partly why the team was less effective and why his individual numbers take a bigger leap, but lets look at Curry now.



Year One (1114 minutes without KD)
With KD: 25.4PTS (64.0 TS%) - 6.9AST/3.0 t.o. (+16.2)
W/Out KD: 29.9PTS (60.6 TS%) - 7.5AST/3.6 t.o. (+10.6)

Year Two (404 Minutes without)
With KD: 26.3PTS (67.0 TS%) - 7.1AST/3.3 t.o (+9.9).
W/Out KD: 40.2PTS (68.6 TS%) - 6.1AST/3.7 t.o. (+13.1)

Year Three (only played 465 minutes without KD)
With KD: 27.7PTS (65.9 TS%) - 5.6AST/2.9 t.o. (+12.7)
W/Out KD: 34.4PTS (59.0 TS%) - 5.5AST/3.4 t.o. (+2.5)


Interesting trend, with regards to which player was holding back more of his own offense theres no question its the reigning MVP who just got done posting historic seasonal averages. Its open knowledge that Curry allowed KD to fit in like a glove by holding back. Its why when he was the guy leading the charge without the other, the team was playing at a superior level. This is more evident in games where either star is missing.

I could be off by a game or 2 but IIRC Curry has about a 70 win pace without KD and KD has a 50 win pace without Curry. I dont know the strength of schedule or margin of victory but thats a sizable gap regardless.

When Kobe and Shaq were together, the team contended so long as Shaq was around. I dont think those 2 examples are coincidences, they indicate a greater level of manipulation on a team impact level. For all his shooting skill, at the end of the day Curry is a floor general, he could turn a role player like Iggy into a FMVP, what did people think he could get out of a guy like KD? That they were on the same team, that they led several teams before that, that they went h2h should make this an easy debate.



And neither one sniffs Wade or Kobe imo.

[KnicksorBust]

Im leaning Kobe 09 or Wade 09, not sure.

Looking more into the Durant case, this is where the parameters of your game matter. As a secondary star, KD is among the goats by virtue of being a 7ft sniper and having a good enough floor game to kill you on closeouts other ways. Off the ball, why wouldn't you want KD? 1v1 hes unguardable individually, BUT if hes the guy actually doing the heavy lifting and carrying the offense as its fulcrom with the brunt of the defense focused on stopping him above all, hes not as special. Hes always been at his best when surrounded by multiple playmakers that keep his decision making to a minimum. I mean, the playoffs the Dubs ran through everyone he posted a ridiculous 68 TS%. His best non-Warriors year was 63%, unsurprisingly it was the year he made the Finals as the teams best player but with 2 HOF level playmakers in Harden and RWB (both would go on to lead the league in assists once granted a greater role).

That said, I think other stars can approximate that value as a secondary star in a spaced out offense but provide more as the hub of an offense, Curry included. And I dont even have Curry next.

Still focusing more on the Curry vs KD case, I checked out the on/off data again. Heres the raw per36 numbers for KD:

Year One
With Curry: 27.1PTS (66.5 TS%) - 5AST/2.2 t.o. (+16.2)
W/Out Curry: 26.9PTS (61.3 TS%) - 5.9AST/3.0 t.o. (+1.6)

Year Two (Thx to injuries, he spent roughly half his time with Curry)
With Curry: 26.1PTS (67.8 TS%) - 5.5AST/2.2 t.o (+9.9).
W/Out Curry: 29.6PTS (60.7 TS%) - 5.8AST/3.4 t.o. (+0.4)

Year Three (1866Mins with vs 835 without)
With Curry: 24.4PTS (65.4 TS%) - 5.8AST/2.7 t.o. (+12.7)
W/Out Curry: 32.8PTS (59.7 TS%) - 6.7AST/3.7 t.o. (0.0)

The loss in efficiency is for the reasons you would think, less layups, less corner 3's, more mid range jumpers and an increased playmaking load that naturally leads to more turnovers. Tho for him the playmaking uptick is hardly worth the trade off. That final year was when KD was reluctant to run the team offense full time and went more into iso mode. He kind of took away from teammates that year, its partly why the team was less effective and why his individual numbers take a bigger leap, but lets look at Curry now.



Year One (1114 minutes without KD)
With KD: 25.4PTS (64.0 TS%) - 6.9AST/3.0 t.o. (+16.2)
W/Out KD: 29.9PTS (60.6 TS%) - 7.5AST/3.6 t.o. (+10.6)

Year Two (404 Minutes without)
With KD: 26.3PTS (67.0 TS%) - 7.1AST/3.3 t.o (+9.9).
W/Out KD: 40.2PTS (68.6 TS%) - 6.1AST/3.7 t.o. (+13.1)

Year Three (only played 465 minutes without KD)
With KD: 27.7PTS (65.9 TS%) - 5.6AST/2.9 t.o. (+12.7)
W/Out KD: 34.4PTS (59.0 TS%) - 5.5AST/3.4 t.o. (+2.5)


Interesting trend, with regards to which player was holding back more of his own offense theres no question its the reigning MVP who just got done posting historic seasonal averages. Its open knowledge that Curry allowed KD to fit in like a glove by holding back. Its why when he was the guy leading the charge without the other, the team was playing at a superior level. This is more evident in games where either star is missing.

I could be off by a game or 2 but IIRC Curry has about a 70 win pace without KD and KD has a 50 win pace without Curry. I dont know the strength of schedule or margin of victory but thats a sizable gap regardless.

When Kobe and Shaq were together, the team contended so long as Shaq was around. I dont think those 2 examples are coincidences, they indicate a greater level of manipulation on a team impact level. For all his shooting skill, at the end of the day Curry is a floor general, he could turn a role player like Iggy into a FMVP, what did people think he could get out of a guy like KD? That they were on the same team, that they led several teams before that, that they went h2h should make this an easy debate.



And neither one sniffs Wade or Kobe imo.

Honestly Curry in 15-16 had a top 3 dominant regular season. Dude sat out of so many 4th quarters because it was already a blowout that it was bananas. I'm going with him here.

[Iggie]

Honestly Curry in 15-16 had a top 3 dominant regular season. Dude sat out of so many 4th quarters because it was already a blowout that it was bananas. I'm going with him here.

And then he had an epic choke in the finals so by your criteria of 1 game winner takes all how can you pick Curry knowing he’ll likely fold under that kind of pressure?

[Iggie]

Im leaning Kobe 09 or Wade 09, not sure.

Looking more into the Durant case, this is where the parameters of your game matter. As a secondary star, KD is among the goats by virtue of being a 7ft sniper and having a good enough floor game to kill you on closeouts other ways. Off the ball, why wouldn't you want KD? 1v1 hes unguardable individually, BUT if hes the guy actually doing the heavy lifting and carrying the offense as its fulcrom with the brunt of the defense focused on stopping him above all, hes not as special. Hes always been at his best when surrounded by multiple playmakers that keep his decision making to a minimum. I mean, the playoffs the Dubs ran through everyone he posted a ridiculous 68 TS%. His best non-Warriors year was 63%, unsurprisingly it was the year he made the Finals as the teams best player but with 2 HOF level playmakers in Harden and RWB (both would go on to lead the league in assists once granted a greater role).

That said, I think other stars can approximate that value as a secondary star in a spaced out offense but provide more as the hub of an offense, Curry included. And I dont even have Curry next.

Still focusing more on the Curry vs KD case, I checked out the on/off data again. Heres the raw per36 numbers for KD:

Year One
With Curry: 27.1PTS (66.5 TS%) - 5AST/2.2 t.o. (+16.2)
W/Out Curry: 26.9PTS (61.3 TS%) - 5.9AST/3.0 t.o. (+1.6)

Year Two (Thx to injuries, he spent roughly half his time with Curry)
With Curry: 26.1PTS (67.8 TS%) - 5.5AST/2.2 t.o (+9.9).
W/Out Curry: 29.6PTS (60.7 TS%) - 5.8AST/3.4 t.o. (+0.4)

Year Three (1866Mins with vs 835 without)
With Curry: 24.4PTS (65.4 TS%) - 5.8AST/2.7 t.o. (+12.7)
W/Out Curry: 32.8PTS (59.7 TS%) - 6.7AST/3.7 t.o. (0.0)

The loss in efficiency is for the reasons you would think, less layups, less corner 3's, more mid range jumpers and an increased playmaking load that naturally leads to more turnovers. Tho for him the playmaking uptick is hardly worth the trade off. That final year was when KD was reluctant to run the team offense full time and went more into iso mode. He kind of took away from teammates that year, its partly why the team was less effective and why his individual numbers take a bigger leap, but lets look at Curry now.



Year One (1114 minutes without KD)
With KD: 25.4PTS (64.0 TS%) - 6.9AST/3.0 t.o. (+16.2)
W/Out KD: 29.9PTS (60.6 TS%) - 7.5AST/3.6 t.o. (+10.6)

Year Two (404 Minutes without)
With KD: 26.3PTS (67.0 TS%) - 7.1AST/3.3 t.o (+9.9).
W/Out KD: 40.2PTS (68.6 TS%) - 6.1AST/3.7 t.o. (+13.1)

Year Three (only played 465 minutes without KD)
With KD: 27.7PTS (65.9 TS%) - 5.6AST/2.9 t.o. (+12.7)
W/Out KD: 34.4PTS (59.0 TS%) - 5.5AST/3.4 t.o. (+2.5)


Interesting trend, with regards to which player was holding back more of his own offense theres no question its the reigning MVP who just got done posting historic seasonal averages. Its open knowledge that Curry allowed KD to fit in like a glove by holding back. Its why when he was the guy leading the charge without the other, the team was playing at a superior level. This is more evident in games where either star is missing.

I could be off by a game or 2 but IIRC Curry has about a 70 win pace without KD and KD has a 50 win pace without Curry. I dont know the strength of schedule or margin of victory but thats a sizable gap regardless.

When Kobe and Shaq were together, the team contended so long as Shaq was around. I dont think those 2 examples are coincidences, they indicate a greater level of manipulation on a team impact level. For all his shooting skill, at the end of the day Curry is a floor general, he could turn a role player like Iggy into a FMVP, what did people think he could get out of a guy like KD? That they were on the same team, that they led several teams before that, that they went h2h should make this an easy debate.



And neither one sniffs Wade or Kobe imo.

The right answer is Wade brother, Wade has multiple seasons better than Kobes best.

[mrblisterdundee]

Still Wade. He has several legitimate cases, including the 2006 finals, the most dominant performance since the merger of the NBA and ABA; the 2010 playoffs, when he was putting up 33 points, 6.8 assists, 5.6 rebounds, 1.6 steals, 1.6 blocks and 40% from three on 7.4 a game; or his monstrous 2008-09 season.

[More-Than-Most]

Still Wade. He has several legitimate cases, including the 2006 finals, the most dominant performance since the merger of the NBA and ABA; the 2010 playoffs, when he was putting up 33 points, 6.8 assists, 5.6 rebounds, 1.6 steals, 1.6 blocks and 40% from three on 7.4 a game; or his monstrous 2008-09 season.

does wade have multiple or any seasons better than durants best?

[Iggie]

does wade have multiple or any seasons better than durants best?

What Wade did in 2006 as a whole ***** on anything KD ever did, prove me otherwise.

[mrblisterdundee]

does wade have multiple or any seasons better than durants best?

We're picking a player at their absolute peak to win a game. That's what the OP says. I use playoff performance, because that's where the competition is the best. Wade's 2006 playoffs — particularly his finals, the best since the NBA-ABA merger — are better than anything Durant has done. And Wade was the lone alpha on that team, compared to Durant being hyper-efficient because he joined a loaded team. Take Curry away from Durant, and we'll see how effective he is running the show in Golden State.

[ewing]

Definitely Walton. He was a dominant defender, rebounder, passer, and scorer. Short prime but controlled the game more then anyone left


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