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  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    How much impact will Heyward's 4 yrs 23 per have on what they're able to do going forward, he pretty much handcuffs them from adding an impact bat in RF..

    Anyone think if the Cubs eat about 5-6 per, they might be able to move him or would it take more then that
    Iím guessing that theyíd have to eat more than that. A LOT more.

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    1) Bryant hit his career line last year. So what is the basis for your "opinion" his offense wont last?
    2) Statistics literally have proven that by the late 20's defense tends to fall off
    3) Plate approach (a batters ability to make contact, not chase pitches, and the like) is one of the skills that lasts the longest and predicts longevity of the bat as proven, again, by statistics.

    So...you really have no basis for your opinion other then "That's what I think". Now, are you allowed to have that opinion? Yeah, sure, whatever. But it's grounded in nothing, has zero basis, statistics tell you it's a horrible gamble, and seems to be predicated on "I like Baez more than Bryant so there!"

    It's almost assuredly a bad opinion.
    There are literally hitters like Kris Bryant available every single off season. Heís not a special or unique player. He is more easily replaceable than a potential GG short stop with 850+ ops. If the Cubs made them both available for trade Baez would have significantly more value.
    Last edited by PeanutPunch33; 07-28-2020 at 12:17 PM.

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Oooooooh yes they were. "We have plenty of interesting arms in AAA. The bullpen is just a crapshoot anyway." Plenty of those takes going on all off-season.

    I should emphasize I'm not saying you were one of those making said takes.
    Helen Keller could see this bullpen was going to be a giant issue.

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutPunch33 View Post
    There are literally hitters like Kris Bryant available every single off season. Heís not a special or unique player. He is more easily replaceable than a potential GG short stop with 850+ ops.
    So, we're changing the goal posts again. That wasn't the debate. This is the third or fourth time we've moved the goal posts.

    I mean, have you looked at the SS FA's the next 2 years? Lindor, Simien, Story...

    So yeah, You can probably replace Baez. And Baez doesn't profile as a player who's going to age gracefully.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    So, we're changing the goal posts again. That wasn't the debate. This is the third or fourth time we've moved the goal posts.

    I mean, have you looked at the SS FA's the next 2 years? Lindor, Simien, Story...

    So yeah, You can probably replace Baez. And Baez doesn't profile as a player who's going to age gracefully.
    We just have to agree to disagree about how to fundamentally build around a team then. Iíll take my chances with a Superstar shortstop that can do it all, you can take the 3rd basemen future outfielder and pay him even more

    Again, if the Cubs made them both available today for trade, Baez would field more offers and have more interest and thatís really all that needs to be said. No goal posts moved, just an unfortunate reality that some donít want to accept.

  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    It would take immensely more then that. To get rid of Heyward right now you're probably going to have to buy him out down to $8m a season. Or add in considerable prospects.
    Wow, you think his value sunk that low

    I was thinking at most theyd have to eat 10, and a team would pay 13 per for him

    Whatever it takes, I think we're gonna see some noticeable roster changes this offseason

  7. #547
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    What gonna be the end results here, all Marlins games will be forfeited..
    Are all teams gonna vote against going to Miami or want the team traveling to their city


    https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/statu...437435907?s=19

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutPunch33 View Post
    We just have to agree to disagree about how to fundamentally build around a team then. Iíll take my chances with a Superstar shortstop that can do it all, you can take the 3rd basemen future outfielder and pay him even more

    Again, if the Cubs made them both available today for trade, Baez would field more offers and have more interest and thatís really all that needs to be said
    I'm not agreeing to disagree about nonsense. You've had literally nothing backed up. This whole thing started with "Baez is better than Bryant" and "Bryant isn't a 3 hitter" or whatever. It's been thoroughly disproven. Then it was "he's a better base runner!" Nope wrong again. Then you tried non sequiturs like "Heyward" and "Quintana". Then you tried to ***** that Bryant thinks he should get more money, weren't able to prove that. Then it's "Baez will age better", zero proof behind that. Now it's "Baez has more trade value". Fangraphs disproves that too, right here. Bryant is ranked 25th, where as Baez is 34th. It's based on statistics and everything. So, once again, wrong.

    We can leave the discussion here if you'd like. I'd probably reccomend that. But I'm not "agreeing to disagree" here when you've done nothing to support your position, consistently shifted goal posts around to create new arguments every time one of your arguments is shut down, and then try to shift conversations to complete non sequiturs.

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Wow, you think his value sunk that low

    I was thinking at most theyd have to eat 10, and a team would pay 13 per for him

    Whatever it takes, I think we're gonna see some noticeable roster changes this offseason
    You have to ask yourself "If Heyward was a FA right now, what would he make?" No one in their right mind is giving him 4/$52m. That's $12m short of Castellanos. No way. Not in a million years right now.

    He's probably going to get 2/$20m on the high end. High end. So you have to work your way down. If we eat money to $8m a season, that's still 4/$32m. It's still above his market value. You're probably going to have to toss in a somewhat interesting low level prospect at that.

  10. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs420 View Post
    Helen Keller could see this bullpen was going to be a giant issue.
    And she doesn't even know anything about baseball

  11. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I'm not agreeing to disagree about nonsense. You've had literally nothing backed up. This whole thing started with "Baez is better than Bryant" and "Bryant isn't a 3 hitter" or whatever. It's been thoroughly disproven. Then it was "he's a better base runner!" Nope wrong again. Then you tried non sequiturs like "Heyward" and "Quintana". Then you tried to ***** that Bryant thinks he should get more money, weren't able to prove that. Then it's "Baez will age better", zero proof behind that. Now it's "Baez has more trade value". Fangraphs disproves that too, right here. Bryant is ranked 25th, where as Baez is 34th. It's based on statistics and everything. So, once again, wrong.

    We can leave the discussion here if you'd like. I'd probably reccomend that. But I'm not "agreeing to disagree" here when you've done nothing to support your position, consistently shifted goal posts around to create new arguments every time one of your arguments is shut down, and then try to shift conversations to complete non sequiturs.
    I have supported my position. Thereís a reason KB wonít get the contract he is looking for, will end up on another team in 2 years and the Cubs will never look back. And he will never sniff another WS or MVP again. Donít worry, you know Iíll be around to remind you when this happens. Thereís a reason 5 different teams needed a 3B this off season and nobody wanted him except the desperate Nats lol.

  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutPunch33 View Post
    Look at the team friendly deal the Brewers got for Yelich. If he wanted to stay heíd find a way. My guess is that he loves playing in Chicago but heís tired of dealing with this terrible FO and ownership group. The Cubs played games with him, the Mets didnít do that crap to Alonso and I promise you he will spend his career in NY unless he implodes as a player
    Yelich was 3 years away from free agency and he was going to be a 31 year old free agent. His situation is different. The further away from FA you sign, the more of a discount you give.

  13. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Yelich was 3 years away from free agency and he was going to be a 31 year old free agent. His situation is different. The further away from FA you sign, the more of a discount you give.
    The Cubs have been trying to extend Bryant for years, when he was 3 years away too. No discount given, and thatís fine, he can do what he wants. But the reality is that he might be disappointed when the offers arenít as high as he expects.

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    You have to ask yourself "If Heyward was a FA right now, what would he make?" No one in their right mind is giving him 4/$52m. That's $12m short of Castellanos. No way. Not in a million years right now.

    He's probably going to get 2/$20m on the high end. High end. So you have to work your way down. If we eat money to $8m a season, that's still 4/$32m. It's still above his market value. You're probably going to have to toss in a somewhat interesting low level prospect at that.
    Cant argue that..[emoji38]

  15. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutPunch33 View Post
    I have supported my position. Thereís a reason KB wonít get the contract he is looking for, will end up on another team in 2 years and the Cubs will never look back. And he will never sniff another WS or MVP again. Donít worry, you know Iíll be around to remind you when this happens. Thereís a reason 5 different teams needed a 3B this off season and nobody wanted him except the desperate Nats lol.
    If you think you've "supported your opinion" you'd make a horrible lawyer. It's been the equivalent of going to court and standing up and saying "He murdered the guy cause I SAID SO!" and then sat back in your seat. You've provided nothing of substance. Not a damn thing.

    Have you refuted your original assessment that "Bryant is a glorified leadoff hitter" and "not a 3 hitter"? Nope, your only defense was "Heyward/Quintana" and "Baez is a better base runner

    Have you refuted Bryant's stats proving he's a better base runner? Nope, your argument then was "Bryant is asking for too much money"

    Have you show he was asking too much money? Nope, didn't do that. Then tried to say Bryant was more easily replacable.

    Showed all of the good SS's slated to be FA's. Did you refute that? Nope, then tried to say Bryant's got less trade value than Baez.

    Showed an article on fangraphs showing Baez probably has less. What's your refutation? Saying he "won't sniff another WS or MVP". Oh, okay. Another goalpost shift.

    You've literally refuted nothing. So no, I won't agree to disagree and give your argument a single validation. It's been one of the least backed arguments I've ever seen. Your only recourse is to shift to something else. Something new. Because you know, and I know, you've got nothing. It started off as a troll position, a whiny, impetuous rant over 14 PA's, and you picked a bad position. You have no ground to stand or you'd, you know, actually stand it.

    But whatever. I'm sure the next thing will be "Oh yeah, well Baez can eat more chicken wings than Kris Bryant! Bet you that!" or "Javier Baez could build that 1,200 piece lego castle in less time than Bryant! I bet Bryant doesn't even know how to read an instructions book!"

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