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  1. #1
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    If LeBron had foreseen the Warriors dynasty in the making, what team bests Cleveland?

    Cavs had a great run and I'm sure Bron thought he had enough to become a dynasty of his own before KD did the unthinkable. But let's say Bron sees that coming down the line, surely Kevin Love becomes the worst possible pairing even if you believe it's still Cleveland.

  2. #2
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    At the time in 2015 Cleveland was the best possible landing spot. Cleveland had the last All Star game MVP. The #1 pick in the draft and 5 top 5 draft picks in the past 3 seasons. So going into the 2015 season having three 2014 All NBA players and 2 top 10 MVP candidates going into 2015 season is the best case scenario. During LeBronís second run in Cleveland only 3 players made the all NBA team in the eastern conference. In 4 years only 3 East players made ANY of the all NBA teams. Lebron and Irving where 2 of the 3 players. In those 4 years the East was the lowest winning conference in the history of the game.

    No situation was better then what Cleveland was offering going into 2015. Lebron original team was the second best situation a player could be in. Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Battier, Beasley, Birdman and Haslem. Pat Riley a great basketball mind and still playing in the East.

  3. #3
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    Now if Lebron could foreseen that Curry making his first All Star Game in 2014 was the beginning of a new dynasty then maybe Lebron goes out West and joins Okc. Curry was the only all star in GS in 2014. They lost in the first round that same year. Going into the 2015 season GS took the same exact team and benched itís highest paid player for a second round pick Draymond Green. Who could of foreseen Curry making his first All Star would get him 3 rings in 4 years. All 3 rings would also come from eliminating the #2 greatest peak player of all time. Basically Curry was beating every player in the history of the game not named Jordan.

    After foreseen Durant would also lose to Curry, joining Durant would make the best sense to take down Curry.
    Last edited by Bostonjorge; 07-27-2020 at 02:39 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Cavs had a great run and I'm sure Bron thought he had enough to become a dynasty of his own before KD did the unthinkable. But let's say Bron sees that coming down the line, surely Kevin Love becomes the worst possible pairing even if you believe it's still Cleveland.
    I think we are using revisionist history a bit there. Love was considered a very good player and a pretty big asset. I guess if we're giving lebron foresight, then maybe he sees that. But if we're basically telling lebron before he leaves Miami that Golden State is going to win 73 games then add Durant, I still think Cleveland with love is a fairly high option.

  5. #5
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    But if we're giving lebron foresight, I'm not 100% sure what the best move is, but for the short term, another year in Miami probably would have been best. Then perhaps leaving for San Antonio, where San Antonio signs lebron instead of Aldridge might have been best. No telling if kawhi stays healthy and/or happy in that situation. But that's probably the most formidable route for him.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    But if we're giving lebron foresight, I'm not 100% sure what the best move is, but for the short term, another year in Miami probably would have been best. Then perhaps leaving for San Antonio, where San Antonio signs lebron instead of Aldridge might have been best. No telling if kawhi stays healthy and/or happy in that situation. But that's probably the most formidable route for him.
    I didnt lay down any ground rules but can we really see Bron joining a team that had just recently beaten him for a championship? Spurs with Bron vs GS with KD definitely seems alot closer than staying in Cleveland.

    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I think we are using revisionist history a bit there. Love was considered a very good player and a pretty big asset. I guess if we're giving lebron foresight, then maybe he sees that. But if we're basically telling lebron before he leaves Miami that Golden State is going to win 73 games then add Durant, I still think Cleveland with love is a fairly high option.
    He had a terrible reputation his former team openly warned the Cavs about, horrendous defensive impact. He struggled to make an impact on Team USA, he was really a guy slightly ahead of his time but the league caught up quick and his attempts to get slimmer took away some of his offensive rebounding ability (not to mention more important defensive principles). Bosh was arguably still the superior prospect at the time but Wade had ceased being a star so he couldn't stay. If he stays in Cleveland, then couldn't they have landed some guys built more to contain the running/gunning style the game was about to blow up into. Kevin Love was virtually irrelevant in those Finals.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    At the time in 2015 Cleveland was the best possible landing spot. Cleveland had the last All Star game MVP. The #1 pick in the draft and 5 top 5 draft picks in the past 3 seasons. So going into the 2015 season having three 2014 All NBA players and 2 top 10 MVP candidates going into 2015 season is the best case scenario. During LeBronís second run in Cleveland only 3 players made the all NBA team in the eastern conference. In 4 years only 3 East players made ANY of the all NBA teams. Lebron and Irving where 2 of the 3 players. In those 4 years the East was the lowest winning conference in the history of the game.

    No situation was better then what Cleveland was offering going into 2015. Lebron original team was the second best situation a player could be in. Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Battier, Beasley, Birdman and Haslem. Pat Riley a great basketball mind and still playing in the East.
    All star game MVP? Does that really matter when other teams have better players at his position? Cleveland was lotto bound for years before his arrival and several teams posted better regular season numbers so its not like they were this clear cut powerhouse ahead and above their comp. That would've required Bron joining an actual team. Im just not sure which has the best combo of fit, talent and concievable flexibility to acquire him.

    Miami doesn't look attractive with the way Wade looked after the Finals and Bosh being increasingly less mobile and getting less and less PT. They should have joined up years sooner but whatever. Wade did shed some weight after this but hes not the kind of #2 you need to combat a dynasty.

    Theres gotta be a better option than by far the most defensively exploited PnR combination (Kyrie-Love) in Cleveland and a bunch of aging vets and cast offs.

    I will say, Miami was about to add Gasol had Bron commited but what becomes of Whiteside in that scenario? Was Spurs version of Pau that influential against the Dubs?

  8. #8
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    LeBron shoulda took a pay cut and signed long term right away, waited for the cap to explode and just played anywhere.

    He signed in 2014 for the max on a 1+1 when the salary cap was $63 million. He made $20 million that year. Imagine if he takes a discount, only makes likr $15 million or even $12 million, then the cap balloons.

    It literally wouldn't matter where he was, just go somewhere that didn't have garbage contracts on the books and dump all young assets/draft capital for proven stars.

    With hindsight it play, it's easy. You'll need one budding fringe star on a rookie deal, then cap explodes and you can sign 2 dudes to max or near max deals with LeBrons discounted deal. Then literally have some specialist or a dude on the MLE getting the books cooked with revenue streams in other ways and call it a day.

    Smack the Warriors around and 3-peat.

  9. #9
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    Add KD- an all time talent- to a 73 win team is akin to Shaq joining the Bulls after the 96 season.


    There is nothing LBJ (this assumption is made with him being the goat ahead of MJ too) could have done to beat them. It would have had to have been an existing absurdly dominant defensive team that had about 60 wins without him.

    Add him, they could have won. But just maybe.


    It's an impossible task. You dont beat the 96 bulls plus shaq. That's what the KD warriors were. The stats dont matte because they never needed to apply themselves for a season. They simply needed to get into the playoffs and it was over.

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  10. #10
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    The Celtics would have been a much better candidate. Thomas was already awesome. Horford and Bradley were still at the peak of their powers. Smart's already a productive defensive pest. They had a ton of picks and a valuable rookie in Jaylen. That's your best opportunity to build a contender for peak LeBron.
    Last edited by mrblisterdundee; 07-27-2020 at 01:22 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Add KD- an all time talent- to a 73 win team is akin to Shaq joining the Bulls after the 96 season.
    There is nothing LBJ (this assumption is made with him being the goat ahead of MJ too) could have done to beat them. It would have had to have been an existing absurdly dominant defensive team that had about 60 wins without him.
    Add him, they could have won. But just maybe.
    It's an impossible task. You dont beat the 96 bulls plus shaq. That's what the KD warriors were. The stats dont matte because they never needed to apply themselves for a season. They simply needed to get into the playoffs and it was over.
    LeBron with the 2016-17 Spurs ó a 61-win team with the league's top defensive raiting ó could have beat them. San Antonio was a dirty play by Pachulia away from competing with the Warriors. Put LeBron and Kawhi in the forward spots, and Golden State has no answer. Green isn't stopping either of them. Even if Kawhi still goes down, LeBron and Poppovich still make that a competitive series.
    Last edited by mrblisterdundee; 07-27-2020 at 01:34 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    LeBron with the 2016-17 Spurs ó a 61-win team with the league's top defensive raiting ó could have beat them. San Antonio was a dirty play by Pachulia away from competing with the Warriors. Put LeBron and Kawhi in the forward spots, and Golden State has no answer. Green isn't stopping either of them. Even if Kawhi still goes down, LeBron and Poppovich still make that a competitive series.
    Perfect example here.

    It's the only way. That could have been a series for sure.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    LeBron shoulda took a pay cut and signed long term right away, waited for the cap to explode and just played anywhere.

    He signed in 2014 for the max on a 1+1 when the salary cap was $63 million. He made $20 million that year. Imagine if he takes a discount, only makes likr $15 million or even $12 million, then the cap balloons.

    It literally wouldn't matter where he was, just go somewhere that didn't have garbage contracts on the books and dump all young assets/draft capital for proven stars.

    With hindsight it play, it's easy. You'll need one budding fringe star on a rookie deal, then cap explodes and you can sign 2 dudes to max or near max deals with LeBrons discounted deal. Then literally have some specialist or a dude on the MLE getting the books cooked with revenue streams in other ways and call it a day.

    Smack the Warriors around and 3-peat.
    No one knew about the 2016 cap spike in 2014. Lebron made his move for what would work right away and had no idea that things would drastically change 2 years later.

    And the Cavs were already at around $70 million of the $94 cap in 2016 but still had to pay Smith and Lebron plus a few others.

    He had made his bed before the spike and Iím sure he would have done things differently if heíd had known earlier. Iím sure a lot of guys would have. That was my problem with the whole cap spike thing: it came out of nowhere and didnít give teams time to plan accordingly. Besides Durant, the top guys that didnít stay with their own teams were guys like Horford, Ryan Anderson, and Dwight. Those a huge cliff to fall off of.
    Last edited by Saddletramp; 07-27-2020 at 06:43 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    No one knew about the 2016 cap spike in 2014. Lebron made his move for what would work right away and had no idea that things would drastically change 2 years later.

    And the Cavs were already at around $70 million of the $94 cap in 2016 but still had to pay Smith and Lebron plus a few others.

    He had made his bed before the spike and Iím sure he would have done things differently if heíd had known earlier. Iím sure a lot of guys would have. That was my problem with the whole cap spike thing: it came out of nowhere and didnít give teams time to plan accordingly. Besides Durant, the top guys that didnít stay with their own teams were guys like Horford, Ryan Anderson, and Dwight. Those a huge cliff to fall off of.
    Obviously, you're speaking on reality. Chronz was saying if LeBron knew what he knows now, back in 2014, what is done different.

    From a winning perspective, he locks in long term, takes less money and doesn't have 1 way at best knucklehead specialists like JR, TT, Shump, Moz and Delly to pay.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Obviously, you're speaking on reality. Chronz was saying if LeBron knew what he knows now, back in 2014, what is done different.

    From a winning perspective, he locks in long term, takes less money and doesn't have 1 way at best knucklehead specialists like JR, TT, Shump, Moz and Delly to pay.
    Well, hell. If he knew, he woulda forced a trade to GS centered around David Lee. No way Golden State says no in 2014.

    And I know this is what heíd do if he knew what GS would turn into big if he knew that, why wouldnít he just hop on? Everyone here already thinks heís the OG Snake and the Warriors werenít fringe dynasty before 14/15.

    /thread
    Last edited by Saddletramp; 07-27-2020 at 09:02 AM.

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