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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    and yet some in the media think Seattle won this trade......because it doesn't make the Jets better in 2020 and they'll have to use a premium pick to replace Adams......................like most trades involving only picks, time will tell...but whatever pick the Jets make, it'll be 2024 or so before a 1st rd pick costs them what Adams wants right now
    Well, the Jets did get Bradley McDougald but rank that where ya want.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    and yet some in the media think Seattle won this trade......because it doesn't make the Jets better in 2020 and they'll have to use a premium pick to replace Adams......................like most trades involving only picks, time will tell...but whatever pick the Jets make, it'll be 2024 or so before a 1st rd pick costs them what Adams wants right now
    Pretty much. No teams win pick trades right away. Ever.

    Like looking at the Minkah trade. People are still hanging onto it might have been bad because it could have been a top 5 pick. Well....we ended up with an all-pro safety. Meaning whatever happened with our pick needs to be all-pro to convince me it was a bad trade (used on Austin Jackson, who ironically is replacing Tunsil, whos draft pick the netted was used in Noah Igdinoghene).

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    The Jets got a 1st for each of his career interception. JD got more for a box safety than Kalil Mack and Jalen Ramsey.
    And expect the going rate to be three first rounders for similar players the next time they go on the block.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Pretty much. No teams win pick trades right away. Ever.

    Like looking at the Minkah trade. People are still hanging onto it might have been bad because it could have been a top 5 pick. Well....we ended up with an all-pro safety. Meaning whatever happened with our pick needs to be all-pro to convince me it was a bad trade (used on Austin Jackson, who ironically is replacing Tunsil, whos draft pick the netted was used in Noah Igdinoghene).
    It's still asset management. They could have traded the third for Trent Williams to improve protection for Wilson, and traded a first for Yannick Ngakoue to improve their pass-rush. They are already three-deep at corner for the year. And they would still retain a first round pick.

    Instead, they traded two firsts, a third and gave up a large contract (another asset) for a box safety. Really, really bad deal, and even if the Jets draft the next Robert Gallery and Aaron Curry, the Seahawks still lose this deal with the assets they gave up for a box safety.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Pretty much. No teams win pick trades right away. Ever.

    Like looking at the Minkah trade. People are still hanging onto it might have been bad because it could have been a top 5 pick. Well....we ended up with an all-pro safety. Meaning whatever happened with our pick needs to be all-pro to convince me it was a bad trade (used on Austin Jackson, who ironically is replacing Tunsil, whos draft pick the netted was used in Noah Igdinoghene).
    Sometimes you can get a pretty quick idea of how it worked. The 49ers traded Buckner for a 1st, traded that first down, picked the best DT/NT in the draft in Kinlaw, used the assets from the trade down to trade up back into the 1st to take Aiyuk who is likely to be their #1 WR to start the season, and trading for Trent Williams.

    I've never seen a star player trade for a pick turn out so well so quickly ... so far at least.

    The Cowboys dynasty of the 90s was built on the back of a star player trade.

    More often what happens is that the team that over-pays for a star play with picks falls off a cliff in a few years.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Sometimes you can get a pretty quick idea of how it worked. The 49ers traded Buckner for a 1st, traded that first down, picked the best DT/NT in the draft in Kinlaw, used the assets from the trade down to trade up back into the 1st to take Aiyuk who is likely to be their #1 WR to start the season, and trading for Trent Williams.

    I've never seen a star player trade for a pick turn out so well so quickly ... so far at least.

    The Cowboys dynasty of the 90s was built on the back of a star player trade.

    More often what happens is that the team that over-pays for a star play with picks falls off a cliff in a few years.
    I've seen the Redskins crash and burn trading picks for players and then overpaying them. That's why I would rather draft the players and give out the contract in free agency.

    The only time it really worked out for us was trading a first rounder for Laverneous Coles. Not because Coles really worked out well for us- he was above average- but because we traded Coles back to the Jets after two years for Santana Moss.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    I've seen the Redskins crash and burn trading picks for players and then overpaying them. That's why I would rather draft the players and give out the contract in free agency.

    The only time it really worked out for us was trading a first rounder for Laverneous Coles. Not because Coles really worked out well for us- he was above average- but because we traded Coles back to the Jets after two years for Santana Moss.
    Exactly. And that's part of the deal. It's not like the players need to be as good as Adams to make it a good deal. Even if those two first round picks turn into okay starters, there's a good chance its a bad deal.

    The "normal" lifecycle for most players is they are a steal on their rookie contract. Then they get paid in FA and thoae first couple years are usually pretty fair for compensation. Then towards the end of tgst first deal or sometime in a 2nd multi year deal, the player regresses and they're overpaid for a while until they become low contract fodder basically. That's not everyone, but that's a somewhat normal lifecycle.

    Seattle gave up 2 1sts to get 1 of the steal years and then will be forced to either overpay or maybe fairly pay him for his services. Adams will get paid. Personally, I'm not sure hell deserve it, but that's irrelevant. If they like the player, then paying him a record setting deal isn't neccesarily bad. But giving up 2 1sts to get 1 cheap year and then give yourself the best chance at paying hon a record setting deal is just not a great plan, no matter how bad their recent draft history has been in the first.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Exactly. And that's part of the deal. It's not like the players need to be as good as Adams to make it a good deal. Even if those two first round picks turn into okay starters, there's a good chance its a bad deal.

    The "normal" lifecycle for most players is they are a steal on their rookie contract. Then they get paid in FA and thoae first couple years are usually pretty fair for compensation. Then towards the end of tgst first deal or sometime in a 2nd multi year deal, the player regresses and they're overpaid for a while until they become low contract fodder basically. That's not everyone, but that's a somewhat normal lifecycle.

    Seattle gave up 2 1sts to get 1 of the steal years and then will be forced to either overpay or maybe fairly pay him for his services. Adams will get paid. Personally, I'm not sure hell deserve it, but that's irrelevant. If they like the player, then paying him a record setting deal isn't neccesarily bad. But giving up 2 1sts to get 1 cheap year and then give yourself the best chance at paying hon a record setting deal is just not a great plan, no matter how bad their recent draft history has been in the first.
    And honestly, setting a record payment- either at safety or giving him a top 10 defender contract- is stupid. Adams is a great player, but he's a strong safety who excels in the box. That's like the all-glove, no bat starting shortstop. Is he great at what he does? Absolutely, but he requires a strong supporting cast. I've said the same about the Redskins signing Landon Collins as well. He's a nice player, but we didn't need to break the bank for him.

  9. #39
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    Hard to get excited about trading your best player but the jets win with the haul they got


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #40
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    He has lined up more often as a DL than a S, he's got a similar look to Kam Chancellor.

    Adams



    Kam

    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 266 @ 64.1%, 6.8 oer att, 1 TD, 0 INT, 92.5 Rate
    Wentz: 270 @ 57.1%, 6.4 per att, 2 TD, 2 INT, 72.5 Rate


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Pretty much. No teams win pick trades right away. Ever.

    Like looking at the Minkah trade. People are still hanging onto it might have been bad because it could have been a top 5 pick. Well....we ended up with an all-pro safety. Meaning whatever happened with our pick needs to be all-pro to convince me it was a bad trade (used on Austin Jackson, who ironically is replacing Tunsil, whos draft pick the netted was used in Noah Igdinoghene).
    That's bad logic IMO. A "good" QB is so much more valuable than a top 5 safety. Not that I think Fitzpatrick really caused you to miss a top 5 pick, your front 7 was pretty beasty and set the tone for the team IMO.

  12. #42
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    Thing is that Earl Thomas is what allowed Kam to be Kam (and some others on that defense). I've always said those versatile box safety types are good pieces to push a good defense into a great defense, but I don't think they make an average or below average defense all that much better.

    Elite guys at other spots allow you to shape your identity. An elite FS allows you to play more single high and load the box or blitz more. An elite cover corner allows you to shift coverage away from that guy and/or blitz more if your other corners are okay. An elite pass rusher allows you to drop more guys into coverage.

    An elite box safety doesn't really shape your identity as much. It maybe allows you to play some more nickel D and be a little more creative with blitz packages, but it doesnt really cover for deficiencies as well as the other guys can.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    That's bad logic IMO. A "good" QB is so much more valuable than a top 5 safety. Not that I think Fitzpatrick really caused you to miss a top 5 pick, your front 7 was pretty beasty and set the tone for the team IMO.
    My bigger issue is you're still hanging onto what could have been rather than what happened.

  14. #44
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    And now Seattle and Adams have agreed to table extension talks until next offseason.........further putting Adams in a much better situation than Seattle since they either pay him what he wants or he walks away, while they give up the 2 1sts and a 3rd for one year with him.......but yeah, trade was a 'virtual tie'
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    And now Seattle and Adams have agreed to table extension talks until next offseason.........further putting Adams in a much better situation than Seattle since they either pay him what he wants or he walks away, while they give up the 2 1sts and a 3rd for one year with him.......but yeah, trade was a 'virtual tie'
    Rough aggregate grades have been Jets B+, Seattle C/C-

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