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  1. #1
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    2020 Game Day Thread

    Discuss all of the shortened 2020 season games here

  2. #2
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    Dec 2008
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    It would be nice to get 3 of 4 from the Reds and last White Sox game, because the next 10 are vs. the Twins (6) and Cubs.

    I wonder if Josh Hader will be available at the trade deadline even if we are playing well. 3+ years of Hader would be worth 3 or 4 really good prospects. If we could get a middle of the order type bat and high ceiling starter (that are in the upper minor or ready to start now) I think I would probably do it. Maybe there is a 3 team deal were we could get some proven player and prospect value.

    Hader to Twins for Alex Kirilloff, Jordan Balazovic, Lewis Thorpe, and ptbnl
    Hader to Padres for Adrian Morejon, Michal Baez, Josh Naylor, and ptbnl
    Hader to Yankees for Clarke Schmidt, Clint Frazier, Luis Medina, and ptbnl
    Hader to Rockies for Ryan Rolison, Micael Toglia, Ryan Vilade
    Hader to White Sox for Michael Kopech, Jonathan Stiever, ptbnl (pretty good one)
    Hader (maybe add a small 2nd piece) to Red Sox for Triston Casas, Bryan Mata, Noah Song, Jarren Durran

  3. #3
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    Nov 2008
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    This team kinda stinks. I think we all knew it was possible, but at the end of the day, we have been relying on everything falling perfectly in place for 2.5 years. And for the most part, it's actually been working. But this year was just too much to fall into place.

    I mean, we have 2 everyday regulars who would start for pretty much every team in yelich and hiura. If Cain was around, he'd probably fit that description too. He's good enough to be a top 3 OF on most teams. Avi is a bit below that but is still a starter for alot of teams. Omar is probably good enough to be part of a C platoon for half the teams. But beyond that, 4 of our 8 main defensive positions are being played by guys who are at best platoon guys for most teams and are more realistically bench guys for alot of teams.

    And the pitching staff isn't much better. Woody and houser are legit starters. Burnes is a back end guy for alot of teams with upside. But everyone else is maybe a 5th starter or swing/RP type. Hader is a legit reliever. Williams looks pretty solid, but the rest aren't great. Im not giving up on knebel but he isn't himself yet.

    At the end of the day, there really isn't anything this team is above average at. We've been trying to peice meal things together for too long. At some point, we need to just get talented players. Platooning a spot or two, especially when you're small market, isn't a bad plan. Platooning 4 or 5 spots is just a bad plan.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay87shot View Post
    It would be nice to get 3 of 4 from the Reds and last White Sox game, because the next 10 are vs. the Twins (6) and Cubs.

    I wonder if Josh Hader will be available at the trade deadline even if we are playing well. 3+ years of Hader would be worth 3 or 4 really good prospects. If we could get a middle of the order type bat and high ceiling starter (that are in the upper minor or ready to start now) I think I would probably do it. Maybe there is a 3 team deal were we could get some proven player and prospect value.

    Hader to Twins for Alex Kirilloff, Jordan Balazovic, Lewis Thorpe, and ptbnl
    Hader to Padres for Adrian Morejon, Michal Baez, Josh Naylor, and ptbnl
    Hader to Yankees for Clarke Schmidt, Clint Frazier, Luis Medina, and ptbnl
    Hader to Rockies for Ryan Rolison, Micael Toglia, Ryan Vilade
    Hader to White Sox for Michael Kopech, Jonathan Stiever, ptbnl (pretty good one)
    Hader (maybe add a small 2nd piece) to Red Sox for Triston Casas, Bryan Mata, Noah Song, Jarren Durran
    You know opposing prospects alot better than I do, so I'm usually not one to propose too many deals, but I'm all for trading Hader. I was on board this winter already. He's a phenomenal tool but to use him effectively you need a really good team. We don't have that and Hader is essentially a luxury at this point. I'd much rather have young, controllable every day players at this point.

    I know he's struggling, but rumors around summer guessed at something like andujar and quite a bit more for Hader. He's a guy that makes a ton of sense to me. Mets rumor including Dom Smith made sense too. Our corner IF is bare in the minors and in the bigs. Getting a young guy to plug at one of those spots would be nice.

    Cain sitting this year and Braun likely being out next year also could open up a chance to trade for an OF yet too if we think the DH is here to stay in the NL. Could allow us to throw Gamel in as a cheap 4th OF option to sweeten a deal too.

  5. #5
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    Nov 2012
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    The Brewers aren't very good this year and are bad at every phase of the game. Yelich dropped a foul ball that eventually lead to grand slam. There have been many fielding and throwing errors this season. They had men on second and third with one out and nobody could get a bat on a ball. Every time the Brewers score, it seems like they give up runs on the opponent's next at bat. Pitching has been bad, hitting has been worse.

  6. #6
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    I agree they aren't very good to this point, however with a lack of spring training and then the layoff with the Cards series I am willing to give them a slight pass. Yes, all the moves we made over the offseason haven't worked out but I am inclined to call the 1st 2-3 weeks spring training that counts. I didn't like the strategy of getting a ton of medicore players on 1 year deals (with options). However if I looked at some alternatives it probably wouldn't be much better.

    I really don't like Andujar as a main peice for Hader, he can't even make the Yanks roster and he doesn't walk (for most of the same reasons on Clint Frazier). However as a 3rd or 4th piece in the deal I would be ok with taking Andujar or Frazier and giving them a shot. I can't see anyone giving up a top 10-20 calibar prospect for Hader but we should be able to get a package like we did for Carlos Gomez (Hader, Santana, Phillips, Houser). Dom Smith would be a nice piece, I left the Mets of because they are in last place however I could see that being a good option. I'm not sure anyone else has much value that would be an option, maybe Narvaez, Garcia, a reliever, or someone but we won't be getting much back unless someone gets really hot.

    I want to make it clear that I am not thinking of tearing the team apart, we are only a 1/2 game behind Cincy for 2nd place in the division (playoffs). However Hader will be due substantial raises in arby and we have seen high quality relievers get major prospects for 1 or 1.5 years remaining and Hader has 3+. If we could get 2 high impact players in return and a couple wild cards I feel like trading Hader is an easy move.
    Last edited by jay87shot; 08-12-2020 at 03:05 PM.

  7. #7
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    The thing for me is that this team isn't really all that close to competing with the roster as is. They may make the expanded playoffs but we just don't have enough starting caliber players on the roster and don't have anything in the upper levels of the farm to replace guys.

    We have 2 all star caliber positional talents in Yeli and Hiura. We have 1 other guy who gets every day at bats for a decent amount of teams in Avi. Our catchers are both platoon option guys but neither is a full fledged must start. Next year Cain will be back but won't be any younger. But even if we plant him in CF every day, we have major questions at 1st, 3rd and SS. Maybe urias fills the SS role. But we still have nothing in 2 of the most important offensive slots.

    Then as pitchers, we have 2.5 starters. Woody and houser are good starters. Burnes can be but burnes isnt a top of the rotation guy until he dials things in and learns to not throw 90 pitches in 4 innings. So we still have 2 rotation spots to fill long term.

    The bullpen is probably okay ish. Williams has the makings of a stud. Hader is a stud. Hopefukky knebel comes back. Freddy and suter are solid multi inning types.

    But all in all, you need a middle of the order bat to play 1st or 3rd and you need hopefulky a solid, every day guy at the other spot. And you need probably 1 middle of the rotation guy and 1 back of the rotation guy. I dont see that coming internally. I dont think we have the cash to sign all of those guys in FA. So it kind of requires a trade and Hader is the peice that likely fetches the most while also not creating a massive hole.

  8. #8
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    Also, as a fan of statistics and advanced stats and all of that stuff, Hader is just a confusing guy in general. He's basically a 1 pitch pitcher that's fairly erratic and gets away with losing balls over the plate more than anyone in baseball. He could stay good forever because of his funky delivery, but if he hits a wall and can't figure things back out, I wouldnt be shocked either. So he seems like a perfect guy to sell high on.

    For what it's worth, I also advocated selling high in Corey knebel after his first all star year. It may not have worked out, but if we could have sold him at a legit closer level, we may have made out like bandits.

  9. #9
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    Trading Knebel would have been a tough sell as we were just on the upswing 2 years ago. However it would have been smart, kind of like the Tyler Thornburg trade. The trade deadline is already a couple weeks away so I would think this week with 4 vs. Cubs and 3 with Miiny will determine the teams short term trade plans.

  10. #10
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    I agree. But they did miss the playoffs in 2017, although not by a ton. This was also prior to trading for Yeli and signing Cain. If I remember correctly, I was on board with trading brinson for pitching (archer or gray, one of which could have been good, the other a major disaster.) And if we did that, we would have still needed OF help, with Domingo and Broxton as our primary OF. So Knebel for a younger, controllable OF was my thought process at the time.

    But I've always sort of been on that bandwagon with releivers. There is an inherent volatility with them and their total impact in total innings played always makes me lean towards dealing them for an everyday or starter type of guy. Hader has been an exception to the rule in most cases, but I think even a good #3 or #4 starter is more valuable than all but the most elite relievers. And even the most elite releivers, with a pretty small amount of exceptions, fall off the map fairly quickly.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I agree. But they did miss the playoffs in 2017, although not by a ton. This was also prior to trading for Yeli and signing Cain. If I remember correctly, I was on board with trading brinson for pitching (archer or gray, one of which could have been good, the other a major disaster.) And if we did that, we would have still needed OF help, with Domingo and Broxton as our primary OF. So Knebel for a younger, controllable OF was my thought process at the time.

    But I've always sort of been on that bandwagon with releivers. There is an inherent volatility with them and their total impact in total innings played always makes me lean towards dealing them for an everyday or starter type of guy. Hader has been an exception to the rule in most cases, but I think even a good #3 or #4 starter is more valuable than all but the most elite relievers. And even the most elite releivers, with a pretty small amount of exceptions, fall off the map fairly quickly.
    The best part of this team is the bullpen. The problem is the offense is pretty anemic and the pen rarely has a lead to protect. A guy goes 2 for 4 he is the team's hottest hitter like Ben Gamel..he had 3 good games and act like he was unreal. Also in an age where players are bigger and faster, power throughout the lineup the Brewers have a bunch of pint-sized guys. I mean Holt, Sogard, Arcia, Urias, Gyorko (who has some pop) are all kind of the same guys 2B/3B mostly MIs with little pop. It's fine to have a few of those guys but to depend on so many is kind of sad. I mean Sogard has a .370 obp and has a well below .600 OPS that is pathetic. This team needs a lot more punch offensively.

  12. #12
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    Yea, in an ideal world, I would love a lineup that looks something like this:

    Cain or Urias
    Yeli
    Huira
    1B/3B/DH
    Garcia
    1B/3B/DH
    Cain or Urias
    1B/3B/DH
    C

    Yeli and hiura could swap if the 4 hitter was also a righty. Depending on lineup, I could live with Cain sliding up a spot if urias could become the leadoff guy. And Narvaez should eventually settle in as a good enough hitter that he could bump up a slot too. So to me, it's not like we need an elite bat at 1B, 3B and DH. In fact, one of the spots could be a weak ish platoon type of guy, but we really need one more real middle of the order bat. That allows everyone to slide down a spot in the order and really maximize their value.

    That being said, given our farm and our likely budget, I just don't see how we get a potential middle of the order bat without a trade or a few trades. Our farm isn't deep enough to trade for an established guy, so we either need to trade an established guy for a potential middle bat or we need to stock the farm with trades to be able to swing that for a middle bat.

  13. #13
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    Back to .500, the rotation and offense could be a little better but things are looking up and Yeli (and 4 others) still hasn't done much. Luis Urias has looked great, not sure where he fits in everyday since Arcia has been better with the DH it is nice that he can float and be a utility guy. Kind of makes Holt uanessacry at this point.

    How great has the pen been, Phelps, Williams, Yardley, Suter, and Peralta/Burnes have been great as of recently. I don't know if we have any better options than Lindblom and Anderson but I can't see us sticking with either of them in the rotation for more than 2 more starts. Would Zach Brown get a shot, I think at this point it is better to leave Peralta in the multi-inning relief role. He has been very good there and seems to avoid the 1st inning blow up.

  14. #14
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    Anyone willing to take a risk on Yasiel Puig? He seems like a guy who might fit in the lineup well as a 4th OF with some middle of the order power especially with Gamel on a cold streak. I think he might fit in well with Arcia and some of our latino players.

    3B/2B/SS Urias
    RF/1B/DH Braun
    LF Yelich
    2B/DH Huira
    CF Garcia
    RF/DH Puig
    1B Smoak
    C Pina/Narvaez
    SS Arcia

    I'm sure Gyorko/Sogard/Gamel fit in enough but that lineup looks like it can get it done if a couple guys can right the ship.

    Can anyone think of a swap for a good starter that wouldn't cost a ton Mike Minor and Johnny Cueto come to mind, however neither of them have been very good. I could see Minor for 2 middle of the road prospects say Payton Henry and maybe a younger international signing guy (however player need to be on the 60 roster to be traded). I wouldn't give up anything meaningful for a 1 year guy who will give you 5-7 starts. Maybe Danny Duffy, I believe he has 1 more year and could fit in well into the roation as a decent #3.

  15. #15
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    I guess a little bit of a hit streak with some close wins doesn't change the course of action for me. Puig doesn't really interest me all that much. I wouldnt be upset if we tried to pull the trigger with him, but I'd almost rather take a chance with even a Keon Broxton to actually play CF. Garcia isn't a centerfielder. Give him credit for trying and he can absolutely fill in there, but having him out there every day isn't the answer.

    I agree that I wouldn't give up much for a rental. I wonder if some guys get sold for cash or international money this year. I'd be willing to do something like that, but no sense giving up someone of any tangible value for a few starts.

    As for a servicable #3/4 type of guy. I'm not opposed to it if it brings back a guy with more than 1 year. That being said, I still think we are one pretty significant bat away from really competing, so I'd hate to give up too much in the way of assets for a guy who isn't that, espeically since our cupboard is pretty bare.

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