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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    is/was weed at the time illegal or not? if weed is/was illegal at the time police smell it, then you can't fault them for doing their job.
    That's not the point. The point is that they're lying to cover their own ***** for racial profiling.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Goodness gracious man! That is not what he is saying at all. He is saying that these unemployment benefits and their extensions are creating an environment that is making it easier for a person to choose not to work when the option to work is there. It is huge in the construction industry at the moment. Plenty of jobs to be had, but are not being filled because people can make more sitting on their *** right now.

    And please try to relax on the term 'so on'.
    Which gets to the point of how bad the jobs being offered may be. It also as I noted isn't really a reason that others shouldn't be covered just because some are turning down poor paying jobs (or even decent ones) in the short term. A better way would be to provide more benefits to those able to offer jobs than cut off those in need due to these outliers would it not? As I said before you can lower it a little but the unemployment should still cover those in need and neither of you seem to acknowledge this or have better ideas yourselves being shared.

    Any actual data on how many jobs are being turned down so people can collect? I am not sure it is a massive issue you guys are making it out to be either so if that is the point you need to back it up. I would love to see someone back these ideas up with data if it's a real issue but it doesn't seem like this argument is based in data, he was saying it is what seems "fair" to him if you were reading the above.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 07-20-2020 at 03:24 PM.

  3. #108
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    They can always replace the meat packers who fell to the coronavirus. Plenty of job opening. A lot of jobs come through small businesses, which are close now. Even the re-open businesses were closed again when their employees came down with positive reading.

    They keep talking like there isn't pandemic happening.
    Last edited by WES445; 07-20-2020 at 03:24 PM.
    WE STILL KNOW WHERE THE PITCHFORKS ARE:Beau of the Fifth Column, you tube.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Which gets to the point of how bad the jobs being offered may be. It also as I noted isn't really a reason that others shouldn't be covered just because some are turning down poor paying jobs (or even decent ones) in the short term. A better way would be to provide more benefits to those able to offer jobs than cut off those in need due to these outliers would it not? As I said before you can lower it a little but the unemployment should still cover those in need and neither of you seem to acknowledge this or have better ideas yourselves being shared.

    Any actual data on how many jobs are being turned down so people can collect? I am not sure it is a massive issue you guys are making it out to be either so if that is the point you need to back it up. I would love to see someone back these ideas up with data if it's a real issue but it doesn't seem like this argument is based in data, he was saying it is what seems "fair" to him if you were reading the above.
    Well part of what I was saying fits into your comment of providing more benefits to those able to offer jobs. The PPP program was intended to allow companies to keep employees they might otherwise have to lay off, but the program was only designed to cover 2 months of expenses and we're already in month 4. So a lot of employees who were kept on were paid for 2 months and are now back to work making their regular pay...while watching their neighbors cash bigger checks while not even having to attempt to find work. $1,000/week to not have to look for work is a lot of money and I guarantee there's a lot of them collecting it (no data there either, but I know of some and it would be a logical thing to do) while taking cash paying projects like painting houses, etc. Outliers? Maybe, but a larger group than you may think.

    There were news items when states first started opening up about small businesses frustrated about not being able to persuade employees to return because they were making more at home. Again, you're talking like they're poor paying jobs...so question. If I'm a largely unskilled worker with no formal education, how often can I expect to be offered an above average paying job? As mentioned, in construction...most of those jobs are well above minimum wage, so the excuse to not come back is what, exactly? I'm just not a guy who likes feeling like we're giving even more people ways to play the system.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Well part of what I was saying fits into your comment of providing more benefits to those able to offer jobs. The PPP program was intended to allow companies to keep employees they might otherwise have to lay off, but the program was only designed to cover 2 months of expenses and we're already in month 4. So a lot of employees who were kept on were paid for 2 months and are now back to work making their regular pay...while watching their neighbors cash bigger checks while not even having to attempt to find work. $1,000/week to not have to look for work is a lot of money and I guarantee there's a lot of them collecting it (no data there either, but I know of some and it would be a logical thing to do) while taking cash paying projects like painting houses, etc. Outliers? Maybe, but a larger group than you may think.

    There were news items when states first started opening up about small businesses frustrated about not being able to persuade employees to return because they were making more at home. Again, you're talking like they're poor paying jobs...so question. If I'm a largely unskilled worker with no formal education, how often can I expect to be offered an above average paying job? As mentioned, in construction...most of those jobs are well above minimum wage, so the excuse to not come back is what, exactly? I'm just not a guy who likes feeling like we're giving even more people ways to play the system.
    So unemployment isn't the problem nearly as much as how they handled multiple other areas? Agreed, that is my point we should fix other areas not punish unemployed people because other issues like companies/ppp weren't handled well.

    This again is getting at the "fair" concept. Why would a neighbor care/be bothered if someone is able to make ends meet even though they were laid off? Do they want them to suffer if they aren't working or be forced to accept the first crappy job they get offered? This is the part I noted before and to dbroncs as you mentioning "fair" before but why is this so important? You also aren't sharing any data as I said before. If this is a massive problem where we can't find workers because everyone is collecting without searching and so on then provide some info on it.

    I have no idea what types of jobs they are, you guys aren't providing any real data or anything. You are just saying you feel its unfair these safety nets help people and apparently because neighbors may be jealous and this stuff may be happening (but no proof any extent). It's not up to me or you what people should expect from a job or what jobs they should take, that's part of my point actually. I have no idea what excuse they have and who is they? Again 0 data at all so who/how many and what is being turned down is just being made up.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 07-20-2020 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #111
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    All I said originally is that I didn't find it fair that Congress appeared more concerned about ensuring unemployed continued to get not just normal benefits but the super-sized benefits they've been getting while at most talking about others getting another $1200 one time payment. I wasn't looking at that comment as being something requiring data to prove.

    FYI typical baseline construction wages are like 170% of minimum wage
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    All I said originally is that I didn't find it fair that Congress appeared more concerned about ensuring unemployed continued to get not just normal benefits but the super-sized benefits they've been getting while at most talking about others getting another $1200 one time payment. I wasn't looking at that comment as being something requiring data to prove.

    FYI typical baseline construction wages are like 170% of minimum wage
    If you are complaining about the unemployment and comparing it to people employed like you keep doing then as I was saying and dbroncs said I had all wrong but this is just your subjective view of what is fair. Others don't need more payments because they still have a job is the obvious point to counter you. What requires data is the aspect dbroncs brought up and you kinda tagged onto of how many are choosing not to work just to collect benefits (as opposed to not being able to find work, no work available in main field, no work at similar pay, old job coming back soon hopefully just as some examples of other reasons). That is different than some of the other things said and would need data to show it's a huge issue or not. Your belief on what is fair doesn't require data but it also is pretty meaningless to what unemployment is for and the crisis happening imo or what to do moving forward as a country. I am sorry you think it is unfair some get 1200 and others get 1200+unemployment but I think unemployment is a good thing and this crisis created a major need for action to protect people as government shutdown.

    Alright, I have no idea what construction wages have to do with any of this. Not everyone is meant for construction jobs. Not everyone should be forced into them. I am glad they pay more than minimum wage but ours is so outdated that 170% isn't even that great still and many may have been earning more before with jobs expected to open soon. There are tons of reasons not everyone is taking construction jobs but that doesn't mean unemployment benefits are an issue now to the whole.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 07-20-2020 at 06:44 PM.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Well, republican held states tend to have the worst education systems, poor health care, suppressed wages, and a lot voter suppression. They have heavy poverty and most republcians southern states take more from the taxpayers coffers than the democrat held states like California, Illinois, NY, shall I continue? If the southern states secede from the union, they would probably be eligble for UN relief help and UN election oversight agents.

    It's the Americans who follow the rules of republican leaders to open up early, following their rep. leaders lead on not wearing face masking, poo-pooing social distancing by holding rallies, and belittling the danger of this virus because Trump in the White House wishing this pandemic away, that is the problem. The democrat cities in Illinois, NY, and even the Republican leaders in New England follow the guidelines. Yes, we had the outbreak first but it seems that the Republican states in the deep old south are setting records. California is bad but not breaking records like Florida. It to the point that I am glad we have our worthless democrat leaders in Illinois.

    Have you ever been to the middle east, Iraq, Yemeni, Sryia, Libya or Afghanistan? Where wars are actually being waged? I think we have a way to go before we little like the middle east.

    It depends on what you call normal.
    So with California ranked 51 of 56 (including territories) where one is best, how does that seem to be one of the best education systems? This is for graduating high school.
    Where are your facts from? What are you measuring? As an employer of HS graduates or less and paying them very well (40-70k with no college) I can't tell you they have a hard time reading coming out of the California School system.

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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Well he did just lose one of his top writers. So that is understandable.
    Dude was Tucker Carlson's top writer and was able to get his message out to one of the biggest political audiences in this country...via a man and a network wholly comfortable with his white nationalist beliefs...

    ...and this moron still felt the need to log onto twitter and espouse his racism.

    But hey, if I have the audacity to say "Tucker Carlson is a white supremacist" 10 posters on this site will be at my neck....and then turn right around and say that Bernie Sanders is basically Stalin and Mao. It's unbelievable.
    HELLO

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SfgiantsJD3 View Post
    So with California ranked 51 of 56 (including territories) where one is best, how does that seem to be one of the best education systems? This is for graduating high school.
    Where are your facts from? What are you measuring? As an employer of HS graduates or less and paying them very well (40-70k with no college) I can't tell you they have a hard time reading coming out of the California School system.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nal_attainment
    A couple of years of ago, I would engage you. I am so tired of worthless arguing that gets nowhere. So believe what you wish. See you at whatever endgames these corrupted politicians are taking us. Best of luck
    WE STILL KNOW WHERE THE PITCHFORKS ARE:Beau of the Fifth Column, you tube.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    A couple of years of ago, I would engage you. I am so tired of worthless arguing that gets nowhere. So believe what you wish. See you at whatever endgames these corrupted politicians are taking us. Best of luck
    You were arguing, he refutes you with stats and now you're so tired of arguing that you can't back up your post.

    Sounds about normal.
    GJO- You will never be forgotten. "MORE THAN MINFINITY"!

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    If you are complaining about the unemployment and comparing it to people employed like you keep doing then as I was saying and dbroncs said I had all wrong but this is just your subjective view of what is fair. Others don't need more payments because they still have a job is the obvious point to counter you. What requires data is the aspect dbroncs brought up and you kinda tagged onto of how many are choosing not to work just to collect benefits (as opposed to not being able to find work, no work available in main field, no work at similar pay, old job coming back soon hopefully just as some examples of other reasons). That is different than some of the other things said and would need data to show it's a huge issue or not. Your belief on what is fair doesn't require data but it also is pretty meaningless to what unemployment is for and the crisis happening imo or what to do moving forward as a country. I am sorry you think it is unfair some get 1200 and others get 1200+unemployment but I think unemployment is a good thing and this crisis created a major need for action to protect people as government shutdown.

    Alright, I have no idea what construction wages have to do with any of this. Not everyone is meant for construction jobs. Not everyone should be forced into them. I am glad they pay more than minimum wage but ours is so outdated that 170% isn't even that great still and many may have been earning more before with jobs expected to open soon. There are tons of reasons not everyone is taking construction jobs but that doesn't mean unemployment benefits are an issue now to the whole.
    First, I wasn't complaining at all...I was questioning the fairness of continuing to pay ppl $600 per week more than many were actually making prior to being laid off while some refuse to return to the job they were laid off from and others returned to those same jobs and don't get the extra. dbroncos mentioned construction, you said you didn't know what they made, and I gave you an idea of entry level wages. My primary reason for bringing it up at all was to question the methods they're applying to help financially and point out they still haven't learned.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    First, I wasn't complaining at all...I was questioning the fairness of continuing to pay ppl $600 per week more than many were actually making prior to being laid off while some refuse to return to the job they were laid off from and others returned to those same jobs and don't get the extra. dbroncos mentioned construction, you said you didn't know what they made, and I gave you an idea. My primary reason for bringing it up at all was to question the methods they're applying to help financially and point out they still haven't learned.
    Good point. The money we printed up has been used so inefficiently, we're really getting hammered from all angles with this damn thing. I feel like we're losing no matter which way you look at it.

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  14. #119
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    If we as Americans don't come together the USA will seized to exists

    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    First, I wasn't complaining at all...I was questioning the fairness of continuing to pay ppl $600 per week more than many were actually making prior to being laid off while some refuse to return to the job they were laid off from and others returned to those same jobs and don't get the extra. dbroncos mentioned construction, you said you didn't know what they made, and I gave you an idea of entry level wages. My primary reason for bringing it up at all was to question the methods they're applying to help financially and point out they still haven't learned.
    Alright so it is about fairness then. I did not ask that of dbroncs, I asked about data related to how many jobs were being turned down when he said that you were saying it was the issue and used construction as the example. He was claiming an environment of people turning down jobs to collect unemployment was happening and I asked to what extent and am still curious?

    I agree that they can improve their methods but as we both agreed later there are much more obvious failures like the business loans. Unemployment is one that's very tough given infrastructure in place and how necessary it is. As I said this isn't about being fair and giving everyone the same amount of $ though it is about covering people who have lost their job. I think you are looking at it wrong is my response to this "fairness" aspect.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 07-21-2020 at 12:01 AM.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    You mean the unemployment rate going from 4.7% to 11.1% since he's been in office? The virus, and the subsequent mismanagement of it that has stalled reopening, has completely wiped out the economic gains made since we came out of the Great Recession, let alone since he became President. Wall Street's still making money of course, but just like always Main Street takes the hit through job loss and lower wages.

    As to the cost of life, we're now at 140,000+ deaths and we have the 8th highest deaths per capita (per person) in the world. We're estimated to cross over 200,000 deaths by the end of September. Compared to Europe, the spread of the virus is quite stunning,

    https://www.gzeromedia.com/media-lib...C0&height=1044

    It takes some temerity to brag about Trump's accomplishments when literally thousands more people have died than otherwise would have had the White House done a better job at handling this virus. The ONLY thing he had going for him, the economy, is now at it's worst state since the Great Recession. What an accomplishment! Big Winner!
    using a pandemic is flawed. things would have been awful regardless of what Trump did.

    one can look at what was happening before this global pandemic.

    this from last October..

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/04/blac...ecord-low.html
    Black and Hispanic unemployment is at a record low
    it would have to be stupid to use covid-19 for a political agenda with the number of Americans that have died.


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