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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Not sure if it's been said but the Magic need to blow it up. They spent 185 million on Vucevic, Ross and Aminu this past off-season and made no improvements. Everyone not named Fultz and Isaac should be available.
    They surely aren't in the best possible situation financially, but aren't in a "dead end" either as to blow the team up, they have Vooch and Gordon under beautiful descending contracts, lack another guard to add next to Fultz and their main problem is that Fournier expires and the dead cap which adding Mozgov has caused them.

    If they can draft well, renew Fournier on a decent contract and trade Gordon for a decent combo guard who can start next to Fultz, they should be alright for the future, if it proves that they can't, they can postpone radical changes for later than the following season.
    Last edited by mouseslept; 07-19-2020 at 03:27 PM.

  2. #77
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    Teams that should blow it up after this season

    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Not sure if it's been said but the Magic need to blow it up. They spent 185 million on Vucevic, Ross and Aminu this past off-season and made no improvements. Everyone not named Fultz and Isaac should be available.
    They are such a weird franchise to me. It always seems like they have stock pile of young talent but they are never able to do anything with it.

    Victor, Sabonis, Tobias, Gordon, Vic, Fultz...why does it seem like they can never capitalize?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by ewing; 07-19-2020 at 03:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    They are such a weird franchise to me. It always seems like they have stock pile of young talent but they are never able to do anything with it.

    Victor, Sabonis, Tobias, Gordon, Vic, Fultz...why does it seem like they can never capitalize?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Outside of Dipo, they've just drafted big guys for the past decade. The fit never makes sense.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseslept View Post
    They surely aren't in the best possible situation financially, but aren't in a "dead end" either as to blow the team up, they have Vooch and Gordon under beautiful descending contracts, lack another guard to add next to Fultz and their main problem is that Fournier expires and the dead cap which adding Mozgov has caused them.

    If they can draft well, renew Fournier on a decent contract and trade Gordon for a decent combo guard who can start next to Fultz, they should be alright for the future, if it proves that they can't, they can postpone radical changes for later than the following season.
    They're a treadmill team which is one of the worst situations you can be in. Keeping Fournier around will bring more of the same. Anywhere from a 7-10 finish in the East every year. They either need to package pieces for a star or sell off.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    They are such a weird franchise to me. It always seems like they have stock pile of young talent but they are never able to do anything with it.

    Victor, Sabonis, Tobias, Gordon, Vic, Fultz...why does it seem like they can never capitalize?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Because it's pretty much always been the "good not great" type of young talent and they've always had poor roster composition.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    They are such a weird franchise to me. It always seems like they have stock pile of young talent but they are never able to do anything with it.

    Victor, Sabonis, Tobias, Gordon, Vic, Fultz...why does it seem like they can never capitalize?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    IMO, it's trading for Mozgov which has "killed" them. That and drafting Bamba instead for looking to draft a guard (Heck S.G. Alexander was drafted five places later on that draft).

    But I think I know why they drafted Bamba, the Magic had just hired Bucks-ex to be their GM on John Hammond and he thought that by drafting Bamba he could perhaps hit a "2nd Giannis" in a few years!

    LOL, body resemblance isn't enough John, you should have known better!

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Here mate, direct question, no word salad. Why couldn't the Warriors (the example team you wanted to use) fill their 15th roster spot back in October? If teams don't lose those privileges...

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...-march-3%3famp

    "As a result, the Dubs find themselves in a "hard cap" situation this season, which means they cannot -- under any circumstance -- have their payroll go above $138,928,000.

    When you add up the salaries of the 13 guaranteed contracts -- plus Alfonzo McKinnie's non-guaranteed deal and Shaun Livingston's $666,667 cap hit -- you get a total of ... $138,520,743.

    That puts the Warriors $407,257 below the hard cap. A minimum contract counts for more than that on the books, which is why the Dubs have an open roster spot and can't sign anybody... Assuming the Warriors can stay $407,257 below the hard cap, they could add a 15th guy on a minimum deal on March 3. Deals signed at various points of the season are pro-rated."
    The Warriors were hard capped because they took back D-Lo via S&T. That kicked in the hard cap for them for the remainder of the season. If Durant had re-signed with them instead there would have been no hard cap since they wouldn't have acquired anyone via S&T.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Because it's pretty much always been the "good not great" type of young talent and they've always had poor roster composition.
    Add on their "high picks" tend to be the 5-10 range which means roll the dice on a player with the "P" word or go with the low ceiling high floor guy. They seem to be hell bent on taking players with potential.

    Since the DH12 trade that brought them vooch, they've drafted:
    2013 #4 Dipo, not a bad pick but they wasted him.
    2014 #4 Aaron Gordon, again good pick but they didn't really build around him well, high potential player.
    2015 #5 Mario Hezojia, high potential player
    2016 #11 Domantas Sabonis who they traded for Ibaka
    2017 #6 Jonathan Isaac, high potential player
    2018 #6 Mo Bamba, high potential player

    Now I know this is easy with the power of hindsight:
    2014 #4 - Marcus Smart
    2015 #5 - Justice Winslow/Devin Booker/Myles Turner (I'll go with Winslow since he was the highest pick
    2016 #11 - Keep the pick
    2017 #6 - Lauri Maarkanen
    2018 #6 - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander/Collin Sexton

    So then you could be looking at an Orlando starting lineup:
    SGA
    Dipo
    Fournier
    Sabonis
    Vooch
    Bench: Smart, Winslow, Maarkanen

    That's actually a really fun team TBH.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    They're a treadmill team which is one of the worst situations you can be in. Keeping Fournier around will bring more of the same. Anywhere from a 7-10 finish in the East every year. They either need to package pieces for a star or sell off.
    Fournier is a "stupid contract" in this league to me. he was in the same boat that Batum is in with his deal in Charlotte. They are over the cap, and he's "too good" to lose without replacing, but he's not worth the contract he's on. So they overpay him in order to keep him in house because they can't afford to replace him.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    They are such a weird franchise to me. It always seems like they have stock pile of young talent but they are never able to do anything with it.

    Victor, Sabonis, Tobias, Gordon, Vic, Fultz...why does it seem like they can never capitalize?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    They make terrible trades and have a habit for overpaying role players. I still remember when they pried Biyombo away from the Raps with a 4 year 72 million dollar deal. If you put Dipo and Sabonis back on this team then they're a threat in the East. In order to do that it means they'd have no T-Ross...

    PG: Oladipo/Fultz
    SG: Fournier/MCW
    SF: Isaac/Fournier
    PF: Sabonis/Gordon
    C: Vucevic/Bamba

    That would be a solid 9 man rotation in the East.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    The Warriors were hard capped because they took back D-Lo via S&T. That kicked in the hard cap for them for the remainder of the season. If Durant had re-signed with them instead there would have been no hard cap since they wouldn't have acquired anyone via S&T.
    Ik man, ol dingus on the dupe is trolling about hard cap.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Ik man, ol dingus on the dupe is trolling about hard cap.
    you go ahead and believe any nonsense that suits you, what do I care?

    EDIT:

    1.There is nothing stopping a team from feeling all 15 roster spots in the CBA.
    2.There is nothing stopping a team to be able and draft in the CBA.
    3.There is nothing which can stop a team to make a trade in the CBA.
    4.There is no "hard capped" team in the NBA with the meaning the term has in other sports.
    5.There is no official "hard cap" term in the CBA.
    6.There is nothing stopping a team to extend a player on his previous contract with the same team or to limit the new contract from its eligibility in the CBA.

    All there is, is the apron, which if a team exceeds, then 1. and 3. (and only 1. and 3. out of all six) above have limitations, i.e. for 1. above, adding a FA must be of min.salary and the MLE is restricted (all other exceptions are cancelled) and for 3. above, the 125% rule is cancelled and if there is salary difference it must be one that reliefs salary (even if it is one penny) from the team which exceeds the apron. That condition we call "hard-cap" in basketball language and no other.

    Either you agree on the above, or there is no point in me to continue participating in conversations with ignorants who invent fictitious "rules" that never existed or will ever exist.
    Last edited by mouseslept; 07-19-2020 at 07:02 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    They make terrible trades and have a habit for overpaying role players. I still remember when they pried Biyombo away from the Raps with a 4 year 72 million dollar deal. If you put Dipo and Sabonis back on this team then they're a threat in the East. In order to do that it means they'd have no T-Ross...

    PG: Oladipo/Fultz
    SG: Fournier/MCW
    SF: Isaac/Fournier
    PF: Sabonis/Gordon
    C: Vucevic/Bamba

    That would be a solid 9 man rotation in the East.
    That team is an absolute dumpster fire defensively. I mean there's some D on the bench but can you imagine Vuc and Sabonis having to defend the PnR every time down the court? And not one actual PG.


    Rippin' lips son!!

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    The Warriors were hard capped because they took back D-Lo via S&T. That kicked in the hard cap for them for the remainder of the season. If Durant had re-signed with them instead there would have been no hard cap since they wouldn't have acquired anyone via S&T.
    This all of course is outer nonsense!

    The Warriors were above the apron entering the off season last season, but KD refused his P.O. which resulted on his salary being wiped off from the books and then they were below the apron. They could then proceed and make the S&T which resulted in adding Russell's salary and being over the lux tax threshold and the apron again after they extended Thompson too.

    By trading D.A. Russell on the trade deadline and having a couple of roster spots left unfilled, they have saved some more salary and were able to end the season just below the lux tax threshold, thus avoiding to pay any tax at all.

    They are above the apron again this season, because Green's new contract kicks in and because there are salary raises on the existing contracts.
    Last edited by mouseslept; 07-20-2020 at 12:13 PM.

  15. #90
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    For the Magic, they probably would not have Sabonis and Oladipo with most of the same roster intact. I'm not sure that the Magic would've even drafted Sabonis if they didn't trade him and Oladipo for Ibaka. Assuming the Magic did draft Sabonis, would they have still resigned Vucevic? Would they have resigned Fournier in 2016 if they kept Oladipo? Does the new regime still draft Isaac and Bamba? There are a lot of questions, and I think the roster would look a lot different.

    Also, I think the pick Orlando sent to Philadelphia for Fultz was OKC's pick. I think Orlando actually acquired the OKC pick from Philadelphia by trading the pick 1st round pick Orlando got from Toronto for Ibaka. So Orlando probably would not have Fultz (and even if they could've acquired Fultz somehow, would they have if they kept Oladipo?).

    To address the question, I don't see the Magic blowing it up after the year, nor do I think they should. They're not going to be able to trade Vucevic, and I think they're probably better off with Gordon than what they'd get back. I'm fine with them letting Fournier leave though.

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