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View Poll Results: Who is the G.O.A.T at their absolute peak?

Voters
9. You may not vote on this poll
  • Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

    6 66.67%
  • Wilt Chamberlain

    1 11.11%
  • Larry Bird

    1 11.11%
  • Shaquille O'Neal

    1 11.11%
  • Tim Duncan

    0 0%
  • Magic Johnson

    0 0%
  • Kobe Bryant

    0 0%
  • Hakeem Olajuwon

    0 0%
  • Moses Malone

    0 0%
  • Bill Russell

    0 0%
  • Stephen Curry

    0 0%
  • Kevin Durant

    0 0%
  • Dr. J

    0 0%
  • Bill Walton

    0 0%
  • Oscar Robertson

    0 0%
  • James Harden

    0 0%
  • Charles Barkley

    0 0%
  • David Robinson

    0 0%
  • Giannis Antetokounmpo

    0 0%
  • Karl Malone

    0 0%
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Results 31 to 45 of 54
  1. #31
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    The best player not on the list
    Michael Jordan -GOAT
    "He's getting the best job in baseball."

    Bruce Bochy sent a clear message to whoever will be the Giants' next manager
    🙌
    https://bit.ly/2ndI9eG

  2. #32
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    Kareem

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SfgiantsJD3 View Post
    The best player not on the list
    Michael Jordan -GOAT
    You think Michael Jordan should be #1 AND #3? Hot take!


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GREATNESS ONE View Post
    Kareem
    Kareem takes a 1 vote lead. Tight race.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Magic had Worthy and Kareem
    Bird had DJ / McHale / Parish
    Shaq had Kobe
    MJ had Pippen
    That is an invalid argument. These guys had competition on a similar level. The Heat did not. The only thing that made competition win against them was Lebron not being as great as people thought he was and Wade taking the back seat and later on (2014) just failing to show up at that level.
    If Lebron was anywhere near as great as Bird or Magic, the Heat would have won 4/4 for sure. And the 2010s Cavs would have also won at least another one before Durant jumped ship. But Lebron on stacked teams against a competition that doesn't have stacked teams (with the exception of 2 years with the Warriors) is a failed experiment. That should be enough context right there.

    Saying that Lebron didn't know how to post up until he turned 30 is also another great one. You picked the most stacked Heat team as LeBron's peak year. That just shows how insecure the argument for LeBron's top level peak is. He only gets praise in an all time context when his team is super strong.

    He was a far more dominant player in 2009 than in 2013.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    That is an invalid argument. These guys had competition on a similar level. The Heat did not. The only thing that made competition win against them was Lebron not being as great as people thought he was and Wade taking the back seat and later on (2014) just failing to show up at that level.
    If Lebron was anywhere near as great as Bird or Magic, the Heat would have won 4/4 for sure. And the 2010s Cavs would have also won at least another one before Durant jumped ship. But Lebron on stacked teams against a competition that doesn't have stacked teams (with the exception of 2 years with the Warriors) is a failed experiment. That should be enough context right there.

    Saying that Lebron didn't know how to post up until he turned 30 is also another great one. You picked the most stacked Heat team as LeBron's peak year. That just shows how insecure the argument for LeBron's top level peak is. He only gets praise in an all time context when his team is super strong.

    He was a far more dominant player in 2009 than in 2013.
    your lebron hate is adorable.
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 07-02-2020 at 04:50 AM.

  7. #37
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    Jesus, this guy cries more over Lebron than Curry and Co. did after he beat them. Just let it go already, dang.

    Not even Top 20 in peak? Why does anyone give a **** what you say about anything basketball related? You donít know ****.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Jesus, this guy cries more over Lebron than Curry and Co. did after he beat them. Just let it go already, dang.

    Not even Top 20 in peak? Why does anyone give a **** what you say about anything basketball related? You donít know ****.
    pretty much this lol

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Jesus, this guy cries more over Lebron than Curry and Co. did after he beat them. Just let it go already, dang.

    Not even Top 20 in peak? Why does anyone give a **** what you say about anything basketball related? You donít know ****.
    You wouldn't recognize a player's peak even if it were screaming at you.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    That is an invalid argument. These guys had competition on a similar level. The Heat did not. The only thing that made competition win against them was Lebron not being as great as people thought he was and Wade taking the back seat and later on (2014) just failing to show up at that level.
    If Lebron was anywhere near as great as Bird or Magic, the Heat would have won 4/4 for sure. And the 2010s Cavs would have also won at least another one before Durant jumped ship. But Lebron on stacked teams against a competition that doesn't have stacked teams (with the exception of 2 years with the Warriors) is a failed experiment. That should be enough context right there.

    Saying that Lebron didn't know how to post up until he turned 30 is also another great one. You picked the most stacked Heat team as LeBron's peak year. That just shows how insecure the argument for LeBron's top level peak is. He only gets praise in an all time context when his team is super strong.

    He was a far more dominant player in 2009 than in 2013.
    Why did you ignore the rest of my post?

    First of all, picking the version of LeBron that shot worse from 3pt and didn't have a post game just doesn't make sense sense to me. Second of all, you didn't address why his strength suffered at 28 years old. Finally, I want you to respond to the question below.

    I think his peak is 2013. This is my 3rd time saying it. LeBron had just won his second consecutive league MVP and his second consecutive Finals MVP. He led his team to an NBA best 66 wins in the regular season while making All-NBA 1st team and All-NBA Defensive 1st Team. He averaged 27ppg - 7 rpg - 7apg - 2spg while shooting 57% from the field and 40% from 3pt range. His advanced statistics were equally impressive.

    What else would have had to do in 2013 to prove he was having an all-time great season?
    Last edited by KnicksorBust; 07-02-2020 at 12:01 PM.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    your lebron hate is adorable.
    I have no problem with people taking minority opinions (I've been known to have a few). I just don't understand how he is reaching his conclusion that 2009 LeBron > 2013 LeBron. I also don't understand what else LeBron could have done BETTER in 2013 to prove he was having one of the greatest seasons ever. He did everything possible a player could do to contribute to winning offensively and defensively and earned almost every award except DPOY but he was all-defensive 1st team.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    You wouldn't recognize a player's peak even if it were screaming at you.
    I recognize a shitposter pretty easily, though.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I have no problem with people taking minority opinions (I've been known to have a few). I just don't understand how he is reaching his conclusion that 2009 LeBron > 2013 LeBron. I also don't understand what else LeBron could have done BETTER in 2013 to prove he was having one of the greatest seasons ever. He did everything possible a player could do to contribute to winning offensively and defensively and earned almost every award except DPOY but he was all-defensive 1st team.
    Do we agree that Lebron in 2013 vs Lebron in 2009 played in a much better team?
    A team that was expected to break the 72-10 record and sweep everyone in the playoffs? That was the argument back then, I'm pretty sure we can dig up many threads about how the 2013 Heat are going to be the best team ever, how they beat Bulls 96, how they break the records and all that. I mean, you cannot disagree with this.

    You realize that your entire argument is based on a series of stats and the notion that Lebron "learned' how to post up? The stats are inflated because he's a ball dominant player on the most dominant NBA team. He's always been very ball dominant anyway, but being on a much better team than anyone else can put out helps inflate your numbers.

    And USG% is not a decent metric for this, it just measures the final action.

    Why was Lebron better in 2009? Because the choke factor wasn't there. He deferred less to his teammates, he wasn't laying the ball to the guy next to him to no avail just becase he was afraid (that came in 2010), he was still the man, he took initiative, he took the hard shots, he made the crucial decisions. By 2010 when the FA thing hit him and the Boston collapse occured, he was a changed player. He could have recovered, but instead we've had an even worse NBA Finals performance the year after. After that he's just been a constant very good performer without being "the man". He had his moments of course, he still was the best player in the league, but he just lost the 'it' factor.


    A player on his Peak does not offer us a shameful display like Game 3 in the NBA Finals. Game 2 is forgivable, but still not really an elite display, but then you go on and have that Game 5... He was also very bad in Game 6 but people love to comment on how he recovered in the 4th quarter when reminded that Ray Allen, Chris Bosh and Gregg Popovich saved their ***, which is to his credit of course as he did rally in the 4th quarter, but overall it was a poor series.
    His only great game came in game 7 and I get that this is where legacies are made or broken, but you cannot argue that the entire season showed his peak, it was a poor season for his standards under very favorable circumstances.
    2009 Lebron on that Heat team in 2013 would have beaten the Spurs in 5.

    Just checked and found out that 2009 was also his best season shooting the FT, which is the simplest way to argue about a player's shooting ability. 2013 ranks 6th in his career in the same category.

    As for why so low? As usual, I don't like players who don't really respect the game. Players that travel all the time, flop, don't know how to dribble properly and my main issue with Lebron is that he could have been an elite all time player but he settled for just dominating weak competition, he never really improved his game until he started to lose his strength. You cannot really expect me to believe that the game's best player cannot dribble properly and doesn't know how to post up. I've seen him being mocked by international competition in 2006 and 2008 because he was so bad at basic basketball. He never improved on much of those, he just managed to play with his back to the basket a little after he was already 10 years into the league already, but his footwork remains **** to this day. Something my 7 years old at the basketball academy see and laugh at.

    But anyway, this is peak.

    Lebron's peak is not as high as his great career should suggest. He has longevity and an extremely healthy prime, similar to the likes of Karl Malone, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Moses Malone, but his peak is not that great, just like Karl Malone's peak isn't spectacular. Great, but not all time great.

    Larry Bird is the SF with the highest peak, Grant Hill and Bernard King are possibly the next two. Can you honestly give me a reasoning how you can dismiss that Bird, Hill and King (all have 4 letter last names coincidentally) are the Top 3 SFs in terms of Peak?

    I dare even say that Durant has had a higher peak than Lebron. Has Lebron ever been as great as Durant was in 2014? You may argue due to some boxscore that Durant was better in 2017 or 2019 than in 2014, but that again ignores the fact that he gets a boost for playing for a better team.

    I genuinely think that Durant in 2014 was the best player we've seen the previous decade in terms of peak.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    You wouldn't recognize a player's peak even if it were screaming at you.
    either would you if the guy was from the 2000s on.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Do we agree that Lebron in 2013 vs Lebron in 2009 played in a much better team?
    A team that was expected to break the 72-10 record and sweep everyone in the playoffs? That was the argument back then, I'm pretty sure we can dig up many threads about how the 2013 Heat are going to be the best team ever, how they beat Bulls 96, how they break the records and all that. I mean, you cannot disagree with this.

    You realize that your entire argument is based on a series of stats and the notion that Lebron "learned' how to post up? The stats are inflated because he's a ball dominant player on the most dominant NBA team. He's always been very ball dominant anyway, but being on a much better team than anyone else can put out helps inflate your numbers.

    And USG% is not a decent metric for this, it just measures the final action.

    Why was Lebron better in 2009? Because the choke factor wasn't there. He deferred less to his teammates, he wasn't laying the ball to the guy next to him to no avail just becase he was afraid (that came in 2010), he was still the man, he took initiative, he took the hard shots, he made the crucial decisions. By 2010 when the FA thing hit him and the Boston collapse occured, he was a changed player. He could have recovered, but instead we've had an even worse NBA Finals performance the year after. After that he's just been a constant very good performer without being "the man". He had his moments of course, he still was the best player in the league, but he just lost the 'it' factor.


    A player on his Peak does not offer us a shameful display like Game 3 in the NBA Finals. Game 2 is forgivable, but still not really an elite display, but then you go on and have that Game 5... He was also very bad in Game 6 but people love to comment on how he recovered in the 4th quarter when reminded that Ray Allen, Chris Bosh and Gregg Popovich saved their ***, which is to his credit of course as he did rally in the 4th quarter, but overall it was a poor series.
    His only great game came in game 7 and I get that this is where legacies are made or broken, but you cannot argue that the entire season showed his peak, it was a poor season for his standards under very favorable circumstances.
    2009 Lebron on that Heat team in 2013 would have beaten the Spurs in 5.

    Just checked and found out that 2009 was also his best season shooting the FT, which is the simplest way to argue about a player's shooting ability. 2013 ranks 6th in his career in the same category.

    As for why so low? As usual, I don't like players who don't really respect the game. Players that travel all the time, flop, don't know how to dribble properly and my main issue with Lebron is that he could have been an elite all time player but he settled for just dominating weak competition, he never really improved his game until he started to lose his strength. You cannot really expect me to believe that the game's best player cannot dribble properly and doesn't know how to post up. I've seen him being mocked by international competition in 2006 and 2008 because he was so bad at basic basketball. He never improved on much of those, he just managed to play with his back to the basket a little after he was already 10 years into the league already, but his footwork remains **** to this day. Something my 7 years old at the basketball academy see and laugh at.

    But anyway, this is peak.

    Lebron's peak is not as high as his great career should suggest. He has longevity and an extremely healthy prime, similar to the likes of Karl Malone, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Moses Malone, but his peak is not that great, just like Karl Malone's peak isn't spectacular. Great, but not all time great.

    Larry Bird is the SF with the highest peak, Grant Hill and Bernard King are possibly the next two. Can you honestly give me a reasoning how you can dismiss that Bird, Hill and King (all have 4 letter last names coincidentally) are the Top 3 SFs in terms of Peak?

    I dare even say that Durant has had a higher peak than Lebron. Has Lebron ever been as great as Durant was in 2014? You may argue due to some boxscore that Durant was better in 2017 or 2019 than in 2014, but that again ignores the fact that he gets a boost for playing for a better team.

    I genuinely think that Durant in 2014 was the best player we've seen the previous decade in terms of peak.
    you do realize lebron was still a better 2 way player that year correct? offensively it was close with durant getting a slight nudge but overall lebron was the better player.
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 07-02-2020 at 08:01 PM.

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