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  1. #1
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    The simple case that Michael Jordan is STILL the GOAT

    I don't here this case made enough. A players greatness is technically about how many Championships they've won. It's measured to a greater extent, or at least should be, by how well they performed individually--especially in the postseason.

    Yes, the Chicago Bulls, with Jordan, are one of nine NBA/ABA dynasty's (by my definition). Jordan won six Finals MVPs--and my math can show how he deserved all of them. No other player has won more Finals MVPs following the 1969 Finals, and no other player before 1969 would've won six Finals MVP.

    Jordan since his playoff debut was never outperformed by another player in any postseason series--he was always the best player, and always played like it.

    The post and article below is an ode to the GOAT.

    https://matthewmurphy1.wordpress.com/2020/06/22/417/

  2. #2
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    I値l keep it simple.

    Kobe said Jordan is his favorite player and the GOAT. Simple as that.

    BLM

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    I値l keep it simple.

    Kobe said Jordan is his favorite player and the GOAT. Simple as that.

    BLM
    I was a huge KOBE fan. I may've been the only Lakers fan happy when Shaq left so Kobe could shine.

    But I've watched and analyzed a lot of basketball, my man Kobe RIP... is not a top 10 player. I saw the ESPN list, I disagree.

    I'm pretty confident that these are the top 10 players all-time. I know everyone has their own criteria, but I could make simple, consistent arguments as to why I believe each player belongs in this order.

    1 Michael Jordan
    2 LeBron James
    3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    4 Wilt Chamberlain
    5 Magic Johnson
    6 Shaquille O'Neal
    7 Bill Russell
    8 Tim Duncan
    9 Julius Erving
    10 Larry Bird

    11 Hakeem Olajuwon
    12 Kevin Durant
    13 Kobe Bryant
    14 Kevin Garnett
    15 Dwyane Wade
    16 Moses Malone
    17 George Mikan
    18 Karl Malone
    19 Jerry West
    20 Charles Barkley

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    I was a huge KOBE fan. I may've been the only Lakers fan happy when Shaq left so Kobe could shine.

    But I've watched and analyzed a lot of basketball, my man Kobe RIP... is not a top 10 player. I saw the ESPN list, I disagree.

    I'm pretty confident that these are the top 10 players all-time. I know everyone has their own criteria, but I could make simple, consistent arguments as to why I believe each player belongs in this order.

    1 Michael Jordan
    2 LeBron James
    3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    4 Wilt Chamberlain
    5 Magic Johnson
    6 Shaquille O'Neal
    7 Bill Russell
    8 Tim Duncan
    9 Julius Erving
    10 Larry Bird

    11 Hakeem Olajuwon
    12 Kevin Durant
    13 Kobe Bryant
    14 Kevin Garnett
    15 Dwyane Wade
    16 Moses Malone
    17 George Mikan
    18 Karl Malone
    19 Jerry West
    20 Charles Barkley
    Lol @ KD being number 12!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakerfan85 View Post
    Lol @ KD being number 12!!
    Why? He hasn't really accomplished that much. Joining an already stacked Warriors team will always be looked at as soft, regardless of whether he was the best player on the court next to Curry and LeBron. He ain't moving up the list unless he wins more championships.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    Why? He hasn't really accomplished that much. Joining an already stacked Warriors team will always be looked at as soft, regardless of whether he was the best player on the court next to Curry and LeBron. He ain't moving up the list unless he wins more championships.
    He means it's too high.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    Why? He hasn't really accomplished that much. Joining an already stacked Warriors team will always be looked at as soft, regardless of whether he was the best player on the court next to Curry and LeBron. He ain't moving up the list unless he wins more championships.
    It was a weak move for Durant to join the 73-win Warriors especially when Durant and the Thunder blew a 3-1 lead in the 2016 playoffs. I can't imagine Bryant deciding to join the Phoenix Suns after he and the Lakers blew the 3-1 over the Suns 10 years earlier.

    But I'm not sure what was the weaker move, Durant joining the Warriors or the Warriors 'Hampton 5' desperately recruiting Durant all through the 2015-16 season--a regular season where they won a record 90% of their games. They were coming off a Championship. They had the unanimous MVP and Coach of the Year. And they were still scared of LeBron.

    Again, I can't imagine Bryant or Gasol crying in the parking lot begging for Dirk to come joint them after they lost to the Celtics in 2008. Bryant actually wanted Shaq off the team. Some of today's superstars seem to want to get bypass competition by teaming up with them as oppose to playing against them


    Anyhow,

    All that doesn't take me off of the fact that Kevin Durant is the much better shooter. Durant's eFG% is 54% to Kobe's 48%--that's a sizable difference in favor of Durant.

    Durant's best regular season performance (2013-14) was better than Kobe's best (2005-06). Durant's best postseason performance in 2018 is the higher peak value as well, Bryant's best was 2009.

    Bryant had some very inefficient shooting performances in the finals, in fact Bryant shot only 41% from the field in his seven career NBA Finals.

    Durant never shot less than 52%, averaging 43% from 3pt.

    Bryant took some of the most difficult, highly contested shots I've ever seen a player attempt. Unfortunately, he missed most of them.

    Bryant was a better on-ball defender, but he obviously didn't possess the shot-blocking wingspan of Durant.

    Bryant played in 20 seasons to Durant's 12--but for reasons I expressed in my blog post, my rankings emphasize elite play. Kobe stepped his play up to an elite level beginning in the 2001 postseason. He began to show decline following the 2010 Finals. Durant's been playing at an elite level since the start of his third year, the 2009-10 season, through 2018-19. Durant's already exhibited elite play for as long as Bryant, in addition to having a higher peak.

    I think he's the slightly better player, already.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    I was a huge KOBE fan. I may've been the only Lakers fan happy when Shaq left so Kobe could shine.

    But I've watched and analyzed a lot of basketball, my man Kobe RIP... is not a top 10 player. I saw the ESPN list, I disagree.

    I'm pretty confident that these are the top 10 players all-time. I know everyone has their own criteria, but I could make simple, consistent arguments as to why I believe each player belongs in this order.

    1 Michael Jordan
    2 LeBron James
    3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    4 Wilt Chamberlain
    5 Magic Johnson
    6 Shaquille O'Neal
    7 Bill Russell
    8 Tim Duncan
    9 Julius Erving
    10 Larry Bird

    11 Hakeem Olajuwon
    12 Kevin Durant
    13 Kobe Bryant
    14 Kevin Garnett
    15 Dwyane Wade
    16 Moses Malone
    17 George Mikan
    18 Karl Malone
    19 Jerry West
    20 Charles Barkley
    I want to hear your case for Dr. J in the top 10, especially ahead of Bird and Dream. I don't have huge issues with the rest of the lest (although I have a hard time with any list that has Mikan in the top 20 based on the lack of talent in his era). Dr. J was a phenomenal talent and is unquestionably a top 20-25 guy for me. But the fact that his ABA numbers were so dramatically better than his NBA numbers really hurts him in an all-time argument. He's definitely not a top 10 guy for me, but I'm sure you have justification for that take.
    Last edited by mightybosstone; 06-24-2020 at 03:40 PM.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I want to hear your case for Dr. J in the top 10, especially ahead of Bird and Dream. I don't have huge issues with the rest of the lest (although I have a hard time with any list that has Mikan in the top 20 based on the lack of talent in his era). Dr. J was a phenomenal talent and is unquestionably a top 20-25 guy for me. But the fact that his ABA numbers were so dramatically better than his NBA numbers really hurts him in an all-time argument. He's definitely not a top 10 guy for me, but I'm sure you have justification for that take.
    This is a good question.

    Dr. J spent his first five seasons in the ABA. He's easily the ABA's best player. Whether you rank Dr. J top-10 or fringe top-10 is directly related to how you view the quality of competition in the ABA. I created an index (on an all-time scale) based on the performances of 50 of the 200 or so 1976 ABA players that transferred to the NBA in 1977. I also noted the NBA/ABA exhibitions.

    In the 1973-74 ABA season my index factor = .867 compared to the 1973-74 NBA season = .966
    Basically my work finds the 1973-74 ABA season equivalent to the 1966-67 NBA season.

    Erving's game translated a lot better than what people traditionally think, when you really look at the per 100 possession stats in the NBA/ABA it more so validates his ABA numbers. If you have respect for the ABA league quality, I think it becomes much easier to consider guys like Dr. J and Artis Gilmore--who ranks 26th all-time on my lists by the way--all-time greats.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    I was a huge KOBE fan. I may've been the only Lakers fan happy when Shaq left so Kobe could shine.

    But I've watched and analyzed a lot of basketball, my man Kobe RIP... is not a top 10 player. I saw the ESPN list, I disagree.

    I'm pretty confident that these are the top 10 players all-time. I know everyone has their own criteria, but I could make simple, consistent arguments as to why I believe each player belongs in this order.

    1 Michael Jordan
    2 LeBron James
    3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    4 Wilt Chamberlain
    5 Magic Johnson
    6 Shaquille O'Neal
    7 Bill Russell
    8 Tim Duncan
    9 Larry Bird
    10 Hakeem Olajuwon

    11 Kobe Bryant
    12 Julius Erving
    13 Kevin Durant
    14 Kevin Garnett
    15 Dwyane Wade
    16 Moses Malone
    17 George Mikan
    18 Karl Malone
    19 Jerry West
    20 Charles Barkley
    Just a minor tweek

    Best poster on PSD Douglas

  11. #11
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    Mar 2007
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    Houston, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    I値l keep it simple.

    Kobe said Jordan is his favorite player and the GOAT. Simple as that.

    BLM
    So because one NBA player said a particular player was the GOAT, that automatically makes him the GOAT? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here or are genuinely serious.


  12. #12
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    I love how Durant gets heat for this but Lebron doesn't get heat for joining the Heat. Yes, too much heat.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    I love how Durant gets heat for this but Lebron doesn't get heat for joining the Heat. Yes, too much heat.
    People have to take off their "fanboy" goggles if they want to truly look at things objectively.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    I love how Durant gets heat for this but Lebron doesn't get heat for joining the Heat. Yes, too much heat.
    Not even comparable. Durant joined a 73 win team.

    Lebron and friends dismantled a team to play together.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    Click here to register!

    Hope to see some new posters around here soon.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    I love how Durant gets heat for this but Lebron doesn't get heat for joining the Heat. Yes, too much heat.
    LeBron doesn't get heat for joining the Heat? What rock have you been living under the last decade?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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