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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Has Durant ever been the best player in the game, in a single year? How about in a single playoff run? Has he ever led his team to anything as the best player on his team? Nope to all of it. Bird is a yes to all of those.

    There is context to legacy, and ranking unfortunately. Durant has killed his own legacy, and there is nothing he can do about it at this point. His sheer talent will get him into that top 20. But he robbed us, and himself, of an all timer ranking in the top 10 by his actions. Where you are considered when finished has context, it's not just a math equation.
    that's a bingo.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Has Durant ever been the best player in the game, in a single year? How about in a single playoff run? Has he ever led his team to anything as the best player on his team? Nope to all of it. Bird is a yes to all of those.

    There is context to legacy, and ranking unfortunately. Durant has killed his own legacy, and there is nothing he can do about it at this point. His sheer talent will get him into that top 20. But he robbed us, and himself, of an all timer ranking in the top 10 by his actions. Where you are considered when finished has context, it's not just a math equation.
    Agreed

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    The case for LeBron not being the best SF ever died after he won in Cleveland. It has been nothing but distancing himself from Bird since then.

    So if Kyrie doesn't make the three, Lebron isn't better than Bird?
    If Ray Allen doesn't make the three, Lebron isn't better than Bird?

    What kind of argument is this?

    Even with such a simplistic touch, I'm astounded at how you ignore how long it took him to get there, let alone by what means he ended up with 3 rings.
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 06-18-2020 at 05:04 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    So if Kyrie doesn't make the three, Lebron isn't better than Bird?
    If Ray Allen doesn't make the three, Lebron isn't better than Bird?

    What kind of argument is this?
    Of course. He isnít better then Bird despite them making those 3s


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  5. #65
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    Bird hit some clutch shots. Hes better than Lebron. Kyrie had to win it for Lebron. your all over the place. Bird had better shoes, Bird had better hair. Hell yes hes better than Lenron. Come on man those are straw man arguments. Horry, Fisher is more clutch than Kobe were they better than Kobe?
    Last edited by ldawg; 06-18-2020 at 08:51 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Of course. He isnít better then Bird despite them making those 3s


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    Where do you rank LeBron all-time as of right now?
    The Baker has come. Believe the hype.


  7. #67
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    Is Larry Bird underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Where do you rank LeBron all-time as of right now?
    Honestly I donít know. Given his longevity he is probably #2 out of guys I got a decent look at (that doesnít include Kareem, Wilt, Russel....) I donít think he became total killer until his second stint in Clev when he learned to shoot. Since LeBron that can shoot and LeBron that constantly plays D really didnít co-exist I feel there is a case to be made for Bird having a better peak. Since his return to Clev his has had a second career that really impresses me and probably puts him #2 overall on my list


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    Last edited by ewing; 06-19-2020 at 12:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  8. #68
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    the fact that people have Bird outside of the top 3 GOAT is already crazy as someone who has been watching basketball since the early 80s. Michael is the clearcut #1, that's a given. But there was no player no more singularly dominant than Bird during the 80s, not Kareem, not Erving, not young Jordan, not even Magic who was the next best. He was THAT good. The guy was Jordan before Jordan became Jordan - the one guy that no one could stop, completely took over, made all of the clutch plays to the point where when failure happened you were shocked. Lebron is the second most dominant physical force of the modern NBA after Shaq, but in terms of making the big play when it counts the most or completely taking over to take multiple rings, he falls short in comparison to the other GOAT candidates. Bird certainly does not.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiG View Post
    the fact that people have Bird outside of the top 3 GOAT is already crazy as someone who has been watching basketball since the early 80s. Michael is the clearcut #1, that's a given. But there was no player no more singularly dominant than Bird during the 80s, not Kareem, not Erving, not young Jordan, not even Magic who was the next best. He was THAT good. The guy was Jordan before Jordan became Jordan - the one guy that no one could stop, completely took over, made all of the clutch plays to the point where when failure happened you were shocked. Lebron is the second most dominant physical force of the modern NBA after Shaq, but in terms of making the big play when it counts the most or completely taking over to take multiple rings, he falls short in comparison to the other GOAT candidates. Bird certainly does not.
    If Lebron played in bird era will he be the most dominat player in the game with the combination of Skills, Speed, athletic ability? Its very hard for me to picture Bird being overall better. I do think he was the better shooter but i cannot give him the go ahead because of that.
    Last edited by ldawg; 06-20-2020 at 06:54 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    If Lebron played in bird era will he be the most dominat player in the game with the combination of Skills, Speed, athletic ability? Its very hard for me to picture Bird being overall better. I do think he was the better shooter.
    Was Darryl Dawkins the best center in the 80s?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Was Darryl Dawkins the best center in the 80s?
    No

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    No
    He was the strongest, most athletic big in the league. Why didn't he dominate? Why would Lebron dominate if Dawkins, playing in a position and with a body that enables him to have it easier than getting beat up to enter the clogged paint on the drive couldn't?
    Do you really think LeBron's skillset alone would put him in the top 10 of the 80s non-bigs?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    He was the strongest, most athletic big in the league. Why didn't he dominate? Why would Lebron dominate if Dawkins, playing in a position and with a body that enables him to have it easier than getting beat up to enter the clogged paint on the drive couldn't?
    Do you really think LeBron's skillset alone would put him in the top 10 of the 80s non-bigs?
    he did not have the skills to go along with his athletic ability. Kobe was slightly more skilled than MJ. Mj was more Athletic.

    No it would be the combination of having both.
    Last edited by ldawg; 06-20-2020 at 08:20 PM.

  14. #74
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    a lot of people don't realize how insanely athletic the players in the 80s through early 90s were... just discussing starters and significant role players Michael Jordan, Dominique Wilkins, Clyde Drexler, David Thompson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Darryl Dawkins, Julius Erving, Shawn Kemp, Larry Nance, Spud Webb, Muggsy Bogues, Dee Brown, Kenny Smith, Dennis Rodman, Sidney Moncrief, Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, David Robinson, Rex Chapman, Cedric Ceballos, Dan Majerle, Orlando Woolridge, Scottie Pippen would all be amongst the most elite athletes in the game if they were playing today with MJ, Drexler, Nique, Erving, Kemp, Woolridge amongst the players that could play the wing that were in the same class athletically to Lebron.

    This shows how incredible Bird (and Magic) were to be better than ALL of these players throughout the 80s and early 90s with the exception of 90s Jordan.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiG View Post
    a lot of people don't realize how insanely athletic the players in the 80s through early 90s were... just discussing starters and significant role players Michael Jordan, Dominique Wilkins, Clyde Drexler, David Thompson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Darryl Dawkins, Julius Erving, Shawn Kemp, Larry Nance, Spud Webb, Muggsy Bogues, Dee Brown, Kenny Smith, Dennis Rodman, Sidney Moncrief, Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, David Robinson, Rex Chapman, Cedric Ceballos, Dan Majerle, Orlando Woolridge, Scottie Pippen would all be amongst the most elite athletes in the game if they were playing today with MJ, Drexler, Nique, Erving, Kemp, Woolridge amongst the players that could play the wing that were in the same class athletically to Lebron.

    This shows how incredible Bird (and Magic) were to be better than ALL of these players throughout the 80s and early 90s with the exception of 90s Jordan.
    The NBA was a joke in the 80s and 90s. Lacking athleticism and talent due to expansion.

    Not sure where you got the idea that it was so athletic lol.

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