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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Dennis Johnson, along with Gus Williams and Jack Sikma, led the Seattle Supersonics to the 1979 NBA Championship. In the Finals he averaged 22.6 points, 6.0 rebounds, and 6.0 assists and was named the Finals MVP.

    come on man
    1979. Come on man. Bird wasn't even in the league yet lol.

    Cedrick Maxwell won the NBA Finals MVP in 1981 too. Would you say he was the best player and leader of that team. How about when Iggy won it in 2015? Was he the beat player and leader of that team too? Magic won it over Kareem in 80. Would you say Magic was the best on the team and leader over Kareem? Are you really telling me that Dennis Johnson was the main alpha and leader of that team in 1979?

    Come on man. By the time Dennis Johnson played with Bird, he was fourth option material. His better days were behind him and as far as his NBA Finals MVP, I'll quote Wesley Snipes in White Men Can't Jump: "Even the sun shines on a dog's arse every now and then". Iggy, Cornbread, and him can get together to celebrate their roll player NBA Finals MVP awards while dining at Sizzler together. Yes, another White Men Can't Jump reference. Don't know why I'm thinking of that movie so much right now lol.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    1979. Come on man. Bird wasn't even in the league yet lol.

    Cedrick Maxwell won the NBA Finals MVP in 1981 too. Would you say he was the best player and leader of that team. How about when Iggy won it in 2015? Was he the beat player and leader of that team too? Magic won it over Kareem in 80. Would you say Magic was the best on the team and leader over Kareem? Are you really telling me that Dennis Johnson was the main alpha and leader of that team in 1979?

    Come on man. By the time Dennis Johnson played with Bird, he was fourth option material. His better days were behind him and as far as his NBA Finals MVP, I'll quote Wesley Snipes in White Men Can't Jump: "Even the sun shines on a dog's arse every now and then". Iggy, Cornbread, and him can get together to celebrate their roll player NBA Finals MVP awards while dining at Sizzler together. Yes, another White Men Can't Jump reference. Don't know why I'm thinking of that movie so much right now lol.
    I dont care if he was in the league or not You said these guys could not lead a team to the playoffs. Thats like Magic saying Kareem could not win without him.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I dont care if he was in the league or not You said these guys could not lead a team to the playoffs. Thats like Magic saying Kareem could not win without him.
    I said they were not franchise players who could be legit number one options and lead a team into the playoffs. That's like me saying that LeBron had Shaq on his team in 2010 and still failed with a three time NBA Finals MVP on his team. See how that works?

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    I said they were not franchise players who could be legit number one options and lead a team into the playoffs. That's like me saying that LeBron had Shaq on his team in 2010 and still failed with a three time NBA Finals MVP on his team. See how that works?
    You do realize Iggy also lead teams to the playoffs and was a star before GSW right?

    We are not talking popular names that is marketed and become house hold names. We are talking just simple basketball. Many players can be a # option and make the playoffs depending on the team.

    No i dont. A player that is considered the star of a team dont win rings unless he has legit help.
    Last edited by ldawg; 06-27-2020 at 08:06 AM.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    You do realize Iggy also lead teams to the playoffs and was a star before GSW right?

    We are not talking popular names that is marketed and become house hold names. We are talking just simple basketball. Many players can be a # option and win depending on the team.
    Yes, in 08 and 09 he averaged about 18 ppg and led Philly to a whoppin 40 wins one year, and 41 the next year in the weak east. Great find. Dude was a real stud as a number one option. I'm pretty positive that Philly was tanking those years too lol.

    So, are you telling me that when he was on GSW with Steph in 2015 playing as a fourth option, that he was at that point in time capable of leading a team to the playoffs as the number one guy? Likewise, I am referring to the mid to late 80's when Dennis Johnson played with Bird. Was that version of Dennis Johnson capable of being a franchise player/number one option leading a team to the playoffs? Again, if you wanna bring up past deeds and apply them to the present debate, then again I ask you, how come LeBron failed in 2010 with three time NBA Finals MVP Shaquille O'Neal?

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Yes, in 08 and 09 he averaged about 18 ppg and led Philly to a whoppin 40 wins one year, and 41 the next year in the weak east. Great find. Dude was a real stud as a number one option. I'm pretty positive that Philly was tanking those years too lol.

    So, are you telling me that when he was on GSW with Steph in 2015 playing as a fourth option, that he was at that point in time capable of leading a team to the playoffs as the number one guy? Likewise, I am referring to the mid to late 80's when Dennis Johnson played with Bird. Was that version of Dennis Johnson capable of being a franchise player/number one option leading a team to the playoffs? Again, if you wanna bring up past deeds and apply them to the present debate, then again I ask you, how come LeBron failed in 2010 with three time NBA Finals MVP Shaquille O'Neal?
    I am not telling you that but that is not how it works. Kobe could not lead a group of less talented guys to the playoffs when he got legit help he won rings. That apply for any NBA player. A hobbled Larry Bird will not win rings without legit help. Same with MJ remove them from the team the team itself was still capable of getting to the playoffs. Someone will be given more opportunity.
    Last edited by ldawg; 06-27-2020 at 08:16 AM.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I am not telling you that but that is not how it works. Kobe could not lead a group of less talented guys to the playoffs when he got legit help he won rings. That apply for any NBA player. A hobbled Larry Bird will not win rings without legit help. Same with MJ remove them from the team the team itself was still capable of getting to the playoffs. Someone will be given more opportunity.
    More strawman arguments. My original question was, from 1986-1989, could Parrish, Johnson, and Kevin McHale be franchise players on other teams and successfully lead teams to the playoffs? You said that they could. I proved to you that they couldn't because all three of them together were on the 89 Celtics roster with Bird only playing six games that year and they barely eeked into the playoffs in the east with 42 games won. Now, imagine a team with just one of those guys as the number one option with a mediocre squad at that. Do you really think they are going anywhere based on the proven data we have? The one year Larry plays six games, they have their lowest win total in the regular season in the past ten years. When he comes back, hobbled and all, they go back to winning around the mid 50's. Is this a coincidence to you? Can't you just admit that Larry's team impact was phenomenal. Perhaps you are boosting up his teammates a bit more than they truly deserve? Can't you admit that they likely would be flops as number one options without the guidance of a Larry Bird to lead them both on and off the floor?

  8. #188
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    Dennis Johnson was 2 years older than Bird. Mchale was 1 year younger, Parish 3 years older. Stop trying to paint a pic like they were over the hill and bird was a fresh rookie strapping old guys on his back.
    Last edited by ldawg; 06-27-2020 at 08:39 AM.

  9. #189
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    No its not a coincidence. Remove a key player from a team and the team more likely to regress. As with Lebron with Heat Cavs, Bulls with MJ, As with Kobe with Lakers. Once Shaq left was Kobe capable of being a #1 option? Why did he fail to make the playoffs or got egged in the 1st round? is or was Kevin Love, Cousins capable of being # 1 options and make the playoffs. Can you build a team around Davis to compete for rings as the # 1 option? if you remove Davis from Lakers will they make the playoffs with Lebron at age 35? How can Lakers miss the playoffs one season and be a top team the next? Remove Lebron would Lakers make the playoffs? Lebron is older than they were and may be the oldest top player in the league this season.
    Last edited by ldawg; 06-27-2020 at 09:27 AM.

  10. #190
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    Did better than Miami heat lol 37 wins

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    1979. Come on man. Bird wasn't even in the league yet lol.

    Cedrick Maxwell won the NBA Finals MVP in 1981 too. Would you say he was the best player and leader of that team. How about when Iggy won it in 2015? Was he the beat player and leader of that team too? Magic won it over Kareem in 80. Would you say Magic was the best on the team and leader over Kareem? Are you really telling me that Dennis Johnson was the main alpha and leader of that team in 1979?

    Come on man. By the time Dennis Johnson played with Bird, he was fourth option material. His better days were behind him and as far as his NBA Finals MVP, I'll quote Wesley Snipes in White Men Can't Jump: "Even the sun shines on a dog's arse every now and then". Iggy, Cornbread, and him can get together to celebrate their roll player NBA Finals MVP awards while dining at Sizzler together. Yes, another White Men Can't Jump reference. Don't know why I'm thinking of that movie so much right now lol.
    I really think there is a difference though between Dennis Johnson as a 4th option and another random player. I just posted the 2002 Kings rotation and Mike Bibby was arguably their 3rd/4th option (CWebb / Peja clear 1-2). Give me Dennis Johnson all day in that comparison. I would much rather have a proven former #1-#2 at the end of his prime as my 4th option than a guy who is nothing better than a 3rd/4th option at his peak. That's why Iguodala was so amazing on the Warriors. He was playing a role that required LESS of him than he was actually capable.


    Kristaps Porzingis
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  12. #192
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8AmBg5sGgQ i think he did a good job breaking down the Celtics

  13. #193
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    I dont even think Heat team would rank in the top 20 for best or most talented team ever.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I dont even think Heat team would rank in the top 20 for best or most talented team ever.
    Where would their rivals rank and where would the Celtics 80s rivals rank?

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Where would their rivals rank and where would the Celtics 80s rivals rank?
    that will take some time for me to figure out ill get back to you

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