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  1. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    https://youtu.be/Arsx6i08xWc

    Heís a all lives matter
    why do people insist on escalating these situations. The dude had the thing on video, get a lawyer and go after the cop in court. If the guy was completely cooperating and the cop was still threatening to pepper spray him- the guy would have such a great case in court.

    Although, if he was cooperating and not trying to get the cop to make a mistake- the interaction would have likely gone a lot better

  2. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Apparently that is old footage. And I think we could all imagine that if the driver was African American or Hispanic, it wouldn't be a scene reminiscent of a comedy flick but something much more aggressive.
    But the cops are equally *******s to the minimum level towards everyone with no exceptions.

    What to think of the no more pepper spray situation? Hmm...
    complete joke.... people freak out when a cop used deadly force, then they dont want the cops to use any force. LOL- itd be like sending a military to war not armed with anything but protest signs.

  3. #648
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    Dayum, USA. You are fracked. So many idiots saying so many stupid things. CHAZ is just pure gold. Good luck friends.

  4. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    Thats such an empty statement. Its so big and vague, its hard to have a productive conversation about it. It could literally mean a thousand different things depending on who you ask. I realize those type of statements sound noble, but nobody ever actually unpacks them. You would need to point to a specific law or regulation that exists that you would like to see changed.... rather than say everyone should feel like they are treated equal. Inequality does not always mean injustice, and every instance of inequality should not be immediately attributed to "Society is racist"
    Inequality comes in different forms. If there was no racism there would still be inequality among class, sex etc. I never said inequality is attributed to racism only.

    Are you suggesting theres is no issues with rasicm here? Im trying to understand what youre getting at.

  5. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Initially I'll just apologize in advance for the depth that I may go here. I'm saying this as an outside observer who has studied a lot of folklore, history and that kind of subjects. But I understand it is very sensitive for several people.



    Well, here is the historical context kicking in.

    The European settlers came to what is now the USA, did what they did and then..imported Africans like commodity. They didn't invite them into their country, they bought them as disgusting as it sounds.

    Everyone else pretty much came to the USA as part of an invitation to migrate. I personally think that this is why the blacks of the USA still are the ones suffering from racism the most. The Hispanics are actually more than the African Americans so you would expect that to be more prevalent. But there are other sensitivities there. This subconsciously hits at the core of people.

    In Europe we grew up unaware of all these things with a few exceptions in England and France. Until the mid 2000s at least, you could distinguish a person's nationality from his face. Today, not so much, there are too many minorities that were born and rased from the late 80s and on in some big European countries. But still, there's a typical German face, typical Italian, typical Russian etc. The classic "you don't look French/Polish/Greek etc".

    At the same time, we recognized the USA as a bastion of multiculturalism, where everyone coexisted happily with each other. As years progressed and the internet and social media made everything flow faster, these racial outbreaks have alarmed people over here and it started to burst bubbles. Something that has also triggered "racists" in Europe to speak up against this turns of events with population shifting. So this is why we have so much far right and people opposed to this. For a significant part of the people this is unnatural for a nation. The calmer voices claim that Europe is not mature yet for this and that the USA also had these early issues, but as times goes by I think more and more people see that this is not feasible by human nature. There's always going to be racism.

    Democracy or not, it doesn't mean much. It's a matter of respect. Racism is there, it's natural and a part of human evolution through our tribalism. But respect is not. Societies need to learn how to respect and also earn it. That's what makes them function. The founding fathers were democratic, but they still segregated people from citizens and non citizens.

    India for example is one of those unknown multicultural countries. They have separated each other in their own state basically. You're not even allowed to live and work in a different state unless you get a special permit. Imagine not being allowed to move freely to Nevada, Pennsylvania or Florida as an American. India is also a democracy. The main difference is that they are all Indians, even if they aren't ethnically and linguistically the same.

    I'm gonna go generalizing and with stereotypes here so excuse this part if you feel that it doesn't relate to you.
    The problem I see in the USA is that it's a hardcore subject. Genuinely hardcore. The Europeans seem to feel that the country belongs to them. The Africans feel like they are still not welcome and are regarded as second rate citizens. The Hispanics feel ostracized, at least those not identifying as white. The Asians feel irrelevant. It all feels dysfunctional and that is what needs to be addressed. It does not feel like everyone is o board with the fact that the USA belongs to all of the people that live there. There is too much historical baggage.

    Now imagine that the States were split equally in terms of population. The Hispanics are entitled to 8-9 states out of 50. The Africans are entitled to 6-7 states out of 50.

    These guys are the minorities everywhere now. A large enough minority to be important, but not large enough to not be ignored all the time.
    Maybe Hispanics being a majority in California and New Mexico helps them somehow?

    Do you think it'd be a more fair distribution to have states where the minorities are the vast majority? This is pretty much what the UN wants to push if you follow news on Bosnia, Cyprus etc. Because this is what they feel is what works.
    But the problem here is that this means you acknowledge that all Americans aren't just Americans and they cannot live together if they aren't of the same ethnicity. I've met several people who will condemn this and feel that everyone is an American. But the behavior of the government and lots of people is that there are too many differences. It is borderline offensive to support this, yet the UN wants to split people who are different, while the EU now supports bringing diverse people together. It's not an easy task. I actually believe that the USA does a lot better job in tackling racial issues than it is getting credit for. The problem still lies with the people I'd say.

    And it's a matter of respect. And there's too much lack of it. From all parties.

    Now you've said you wouldn't want to live in Brazil. I will agree probably. But I'd also say that I wouldn't want to be a foreign minority somewhere. It feels awkward and I've done it for roughly 10 years, being a foreigner somewhere. Sometimes getting stares, being ridiculed for my weird name, for having an accent at times, being told to **** off back to Spain (which is always funny being confused for a Spaniard to me, but not really a haha moment at the time of the event) and other every day stuff.

    But what I'd hate to be a minority in a country that's supposed to be my own. And I guess this is how minorities in the USA feel. It makes you feel like a foreigner in your own country. Unwelcome by some, hated by others. I'd pass. But the reality is that there are millions that do not have this option to pass but get to live to in this situation and it's ugly. I believe that personally I'd feel like a second rate citizen. I'd strive to prove everyone wrong, but I'd need a lot of luck to achieve it.

    As for the core subject of recent, I do believe that the police is more trigger happy against African Americans, but I don't feel I'm in a position to talk on whether that is warranted or not.
    But I view it more of a police issue than a race issue.

    I get that there is a big discussion of each side reacts, what problems exist and all that. Fair points most of them, but it is important to get over the historical contextual obstacle. People ignore all that. And it goes both ways.


    What I think it's ironic that there probably are more African Americans with longer direct lineage to the continent than White Americans. There is a disproportionate amount of European settlers that came to the USA in the 19th century that helped grow the population by a lot. The African American population was 20% for a long period of time and dropped to 12% at the turn of the century despite African Americans breeding more children. So it is a big irony that this minority has more of a claim on the US territory than those who now form the majority.

    Anyway, I know that maybe some people will see this viewpoint as some sort of alien opinion, but I hope some may at least appreciate the input of someone from the outside.
    That makes it even worse. Everyone else was invited to migrate but the african american was sold as a commodity. The reason its worse is because they didnt have a choice and now have been here for generations and obviously still feel opressed to various degrees to this day. The irony is that you say some people have no choice to be a minority in another country. Well thats exactly what were talking about here orginally black people had no choice as you said they were sold like cattle.

    From what youve described to me is that youve experienced racism first hand. Getting ridiculed for your name, getting stares, laughing at your accent is all racism. its so petti and childish to me. Im guessing you chose to migrate, imagine your great, great grand father was sold as a slave and you remain a minority generations later still experiencing some form of racism a couple hundred years later. Ive expeŗrienced it as well as a minority. Infact I dont even use my real name when Im in Houston. I go by an alias, its just better for business. Not alot of people want to do business with a guy named Hamed in Texas.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 06-14-2020 at 01:55 PM.

  6. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Inequality comes in different forms. If there was no racism there would still be inequality among class, sex etc. I never said inequality is attributed to racism only.

    Are you suggesting theres is no issues with rasicm here? Im trying to understand what youre getting at.
    "They are made to feel like minorities when their auntsestors have been here pretty much as long as the european settlers. Why is that?"

    That's the original statement that I was responding too. I don't believe the vast majority of the inequalities are injustices. I do believe there are things that could be changed with our policing. Its really hard to definitively prove that racism is the cause of the problem with police brutality. That is to say- African Americans find themselves in life or death situations with police more than other races because they tend to escalate situations more than other races.

    For instance- Rayshard Brooks resisted arrest, punched 2 officers multiple times, then stole ones taser and tried to use it on the police. If a white person did that, theres a good chance the police would shoot at him too...... Yet.... Brooks case is being used to show we need to defund police, and nobody is talking about all of the things Brooks could have done different to avoid that situation. The story is being made that these cops just went out and saw a black man so they gunned him down.

    But to the point- if you are going to say black people are treated worse by society- say exactly what laws are in place to keep black people down? Is society making a choice to keep them down, or are they making poor life decisions for themselves and their families generation after generation? We are no longer in 1860 or even 1960 so dont bring up past laws. Talk about what youd specifically like to see changed to promote equal treatment right now.

  7. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    That makes it even worse. Everyone else was invited to migrate but the african american was sold as a commodity. The reason its worse is because they didnt have a choice and now have been here for generations and obviously still feel opressed to various degrees to this day. The irony is that you say some people have no choice to be a minority in another country. Well thats exactly what were talking about here orginally black people had no choice as you said they were sold like cattle.

    From what youve described to me is that youve experienced racism first hand. Getting ridiculed for your name, getting stares, laughing at your accent is all racism. its so petti and childish to me. Im guessing you chose to migrate, imagine your great, great grand father was sold as a slave and you remain a minority generations later still experiencing some form of racism a couple hundred years later. Ive expeŗrienced it as well as a minority. Infact I dont even use my real name when Im in Houston. I go by an alias, its just better for business. Not alot of people want to do business with a guy named Hamed in Texas.
    Pretty much, yes.

    It's difficult because you have to understand social dynamics are different than personal dynamics.

    For example if make a group of 10 people, you put 2 Americans with 8 foreigners, they are very likely to be attracted to each other to form a closer relationship (ie friendship). It won't matter if it's a Caucasian with an African American or a Hispanic with an Asian American. They have more in common than what separates them.

    But if you now have a group of 10 Americans, you're very likely to see them split into ethnicities. There would be the odd one out, there always is, but it's how it is. People perceive difference because we think with our eyes instead of our brains and the first impression scars our minds. Asking people to jump that hurdle may be too much for them.

    The USA has done an outstanding job in covering some inherent human traits, but those will always exist. Unfortunately we are a species that wants to be part of a homogenous group and even then we are very likely to be territorial, so homogeneity is divided into family groups etc. When you are a nation based on a dysfunctional basic system such as this, you are bound to have several issues.
    I honestly cannot tell what the answer is, but I can tell you that Europe is heading into a worse situation than the USA because Europe was never ready for this. The USA was built on settlers and immigrants and the original inhabitants do not get to tell their story.

    For example Australia has a similar background but if you look at their ethnic diversity, it's almost non-existent. The European descendants make up something like 90% of the population, Chinese are like 4-5% and the Africans and natives are less than 2%. You still have racism there, but the country is considered one of the best places to live, something that the USA has lost and I wouldn't say that there is systemic racism like in the USA. The minorities aren't big enough to spill over these issues over generations of genuine oppression towards non-whites in Australia.
    And if you see the census of Australia, you are not being counted by skin tone, but by country of origin. There's a huge difference. And just like in the USA, you have these people group together, same neighbourhoods and all that. I met an Australian girl last year in Greece and she was like "I love Greeks, I grew up on a street where 20 out of 22 houses were Greek, every day there was a party somewhere". I've met and spoken to many people in Australia and even have relatives there. They all love it there but they are all pretty much living in they enjoy some self instilled segregation. And there could be tensions between lots of these ethnic groups, but it's a bit weird to hear news about Australia in that light.

    I also have extended family in South Africa. Most of them have fled already. What is going on there is the complete opposite. The remaining whites are being constantly under threat. Home invasions, armed robberies, car thefts, breaking of shop windows, kidnappings and various other crimes are at play. This is pretty much cold blood revenge. The remaining members of my family are now in their 70s and whenever they hear noise at their home at night, they just pretend they're sleeping and they go downstairs the next morning to see the place messed up. That happens at least 3 times a month.

    In South Africa they call this "white genocide", which is an exaggeration, but it does show that there's a tendency for this kind of attacks. But from what I gather, it's not that these people's homes are targetted because whites live there, but the fact that those are the biggest and in the more fancy neighbourhoods is what does the trick. And the same situation applies to farms. But at the same time, the whites are a significant and powerless minority that is under threat. At the same time, you still have white-only towns in South Africa, either because they are a lost reamnant of Apartheid, or because the remaining whites want a place to be secure from the crime that has met the majority of the other whites. At the end of the day, the point is that South Africa has serious racial issues as well. But they also have internal problems, with tribal wars.

    South Africa has some things common with Brazil. When it comes to census. They split the population in white, black, mixed and others. White skinned applies to both, black skinned also, but the South Africans call them 'Bantu' which is the main tribe. And one has 'brown' (Brazil) and the other has 'coloured'. Both are essentially what Americans call 'mixed' heritage. And these people are a significant portion of the population.


    Why all this? Well, the idea is that racism is prevalent in places where you have various races living together. You go to Poland or a place like Libya, people will tell you they're not racists. That's because they usually do not live with other races. When someone different comes to their land, well, they tend to stare. It's a different kind of person than what they're used to. If you dump a 10-15% worth of the entire population of these people into these countries, racism will become an issue for sure.

    We have these issues in Europe a lot nowadays, especially after the 90s and countries like the UK, France, Germany, Sweden and Belgium (and others) have opened up to African and Asian populations, something that wasn't the case all over the place. So you have an imaginary 'iron curtain' of who is okay with multiculturalism and who isn't.
    There was a study by Eurostat a while back, which is the official statistical tool of the European Union. It asked if the family would be comfortable with their child dating a white person (92% said yes), a black person (64% said yes) or an Asian person (69% said yes). Asian here means Chinese basically (whereas in the UK Asian means a person from the Indian peninsula so not sure if they got mixed up there). In my opinion, if you had asked this question in Eastern Europe or South Europe alone, the approval rate would fall significantly to less than 40%. Unfortunately we do not have the official numbers or who was asked, but some possibly fake maps have circulated, though the link in the picture is about unemployment actually, but here it is

    It is how things are. People have these innate defense mechanisms that in the bigger picture create a racial chasm. As I've said earlier, the USA has two signfiicant minorities that are being marginalized, which is what always happens with minorities, but they are large enough to cause friction to the society when they speak out. I honestly don't know the solution to this but I have noticed that it's the source of many problems.

    In Cyprus where I have resided for several years, the island is split now because Turkey invaded due to an ethnic conflict. The reason? 18% of the island's inhabitants were Turks. Now they control 36% of the land illegally and the populace is separated between whatever cease fire line the United Nations have placed.
    The whole Yugoslav wars erupted because there were minorities in some places.
    Africa and to an extent the Middle East are in today's mess not really because of colonialism, but mostly by decolonialism. They didn't let the natives sort matters themselves, the British and to a lesser degree the French just drew the map as if no one was living there and now you have multiple nations with significant minorities and lots of internal conflicts. The last disastrous one was with Sudan, which led to the formation of South Sudan. Then you have the ongoing issues in Nigeria.
    And of course the most popular of them all with Israel & Palestine.

    I think the USA is safe from this kind of escalation as long as the minorities still view themselves as Americans of the USA. When they give up hope in being perceived as equals, then we'll enter into an entire new mess. And once more I'll say that the USA has done a very good job at improving the situation, but it's still not enough. I'm not sure if it will ever be enough. There seems to be too much hatred in the air for this to be fixed with a few legislative points and a couple of reforms.


    On an ending note, I'll give you something from a personal experience. I was studying in London and I had someone come to visit from home. We went on a train and I sat on the left hand side of the train and my relative sat on the right hand side. After a stop, there was an empty spot across my relative but I didn't feel like getting off my seat. A black person sat across my relative. This was a train with 2 seats on either side and two opposing seats facing them. My relative grew anxious at this development, which I found bizarre. This was just some guy in his work clothes going home. After a couple of nods, I joined my relative and sat there. Of course there was nothing, but my relative seemed genuinely scared. It's not as if this was the first time they had encountered a black person. I mean my building's doorman was a black dude that my relative was fond of and my relative's family even lived in central Africa for a while. But this stranger that sat across got my relative going a bit mad. The same thing happened when a big drunken fat white dude sat on the subway next to my relative, so this was something like a mental reflex, some defensive trigger. This person I am describing is not racist, but that moment in the train could convince anyone that it was racially driven. Maybe it was, but at the same time, it wasn't on purpose.

    Now imagine this person magnified into a society of hundreds of million people. A slight reaction may cause an outbreak.

    It could also be related to political ideology really. Different = good VS different = bad. Liberals vs Conservatives. Maybe it all starts there. Or maybe it all leads to what political alignment you'll have.
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 06-14-2020 at 03:20 PM.

  8. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    "They are made to feel like minorities when their auntsestors have been here pretty much as long as the european settlers. Why is that?"

    That's the original statement that I was responding too. I don't believe the vast majority of the inequalities are injustices. I do believe there are things that could be changed with our policing. Its really hard to definitively prove that racism is the cause of the problem with police brutality. That is to say- African Americans find themselves in life or death situations with police more than other races because they tend to escalate situations more than other races.

    For instance- Rayshard Brooks resisted arrest, punched 2 officers multiple times, then stole ones taser and tried to use it on the police. If a white person did that, theres a good chance the police would shoot at him too...... Yet.... Brooks case is being used to show we need to defund police, and nobody is talking about all of the things Brooks could have done different to avoid that situation. The story is being made that these cops just went out and saw a black man so they gunned him down.

    But to the point- if you are going to say black people are treated worse by society- say exactly what laws are in place to keep black people down? Is society making a choice to keep them down, or are they making poor life decisions for themselves and their families generation after generation? We are no longer in 1860 or even 1960 so dont bring up past laws. Talk about what youd specifically like to see changed to promote equal treatment right now.
    "African Americans find themselves in life or death situations with police more than other races because they tend to escalate situations more than other races."

    I repsectfully disagree.

    Not all police brutality is based on racism, but all police brutality is wrong. Theres two different conversations going on here.

  9. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Pretty much, yes.

    It's difficult because you have to understand social dynamics are different than personal dynamics.

    For example if make a group of 10 people, you put 2 Americans with 8 foreigners, they are very likely to be attracted to each other to form a closer relationship (ie friendship). It won't matter if it's a Caucasian with an African American or a Hispanic with an Asian American. They have more in common than what separates them.

    But if you now have a group of 10 Americans, you're very likely to see them split into ethnicities. There would be the odd one out, there always is, but it's how it is. People perceive difference because we think with our eyes instead of our brains and the first impression scars our minds. Asking people to jump that hurdle may be too much for them.

    The USA has done an outstanding job in covering some inherent human traits, but those will always exist. Unfortunately we are a species that wants to be part of a homogenous group and even then we are very likely to be territorial, so homogeneity is divided into family groups etc. When you are a nation based on a dysfunctional basic system such as this, you are bound to have several issues.
    I honestly cannot tell what the answer is, but I can tell you that Europe is heading into a worse situation than the USA because Europe was never ready for this. The USA was built on settlers and immigrants and the original inhabitants do not get to tell their story.

    For example Australia has a similar background but if you look at their ethnic diversity, it's almost non-existent. The European descendants make up something like 90% of the population, Chinese are like 4-5% and the Africans and natives are less than 2%. You still have racism there, but the country is considered one of the best places to live, something that the USA has lost and I wouldn't say that there is systemic racism like in the USA. The minorities aren't big enough to spill over these issues over generations of genuine oppression towards non-whites in Australia.
    And if you see the census of Australia, you are not being counted by skin tone, but by country of origin. There's a huge difference. And just like in the USA, you have these people group together, same neighbourhoods and all that. I met an Australian girl last year in Greece and she was like "I love Greeks, I grew up on a street where 20 out of 22 houses were Greek, every day there was a party somewhere". I've met and spoken to many people in Australia and even have relatives there. They all love it there but they are all pretty much living in they enjoy some self instilled segregation. And there could be tensions between lots of these ethnic groups, but it's a bit weird to hear news about Australia in that light.

    I also have extended family in South Africa. Most of them have fled already. What is going on there is the complete opposite. The remaining whites are being constantly under threat. Home invasions, armed robberies, car thefts, breaking of shop windows, kidnappings and various other crimes are at play. This is pretty much cold blood revenge. The remaining members of my family are now in their 70s and whenever they hear noise at their home at night, they just pretend they're sleeping and they go downstairs the next morning to see the place messed up. That happens at least 3 times a month.

    In South Africa they call this "white genocide", which is an exaggeration, but it does show that there's a tendency for this kind of attacks. But from what I gather, it's not that these people's homes are targetted because whites live there, but the fact that those are the biggest and in the more fancy neighbourhoods is what does the trick. And the same situation applies to farms. But at the same time, the whites are a significant and powerless minority that is under threat. At the same time, you still have white-only towns in South Africa, either because they are a lost reamnant of Apartheid, or because the remaining whites want a place to be secure from the crime that has met the majority of the other whites. At the end of the day, the point is that South Africa has serious racial issues as well. But they also have internal problems, with tribal wars.

    South Africa has some things common with Brazil. When it comes to census. They split the population in white, black, mixed and others. White skinned applies to both, black skinned also, but the South Africans call them 'Bantu' which is the main tribe. And one has 'brown' (Brazil) and the other has 'coloured'. Both are essentially what Americans call 'mixed' heritage. And these people are a significant portion of the population.


    Why all this? Well, the idea is that racism is prevalent in places where you have various races living together. You go to Poland or a place like Libya, people will tell you they're not racists. That's because they usually do not live with other races. When someone different comes to their land, well, they tend to stare. It's a different kind of person than what they're used to. If you dump a 10-15% worth of the entire population of these people into these countries, racism will become an issue for sure.

    We have these issues in Europe a lot nowadays, especially after the 90s and countries like the UK, France, Germany, Sweden and Belgium (and others) have opened up to African and Asian populations, something that wasn't the case all over the place. So you have an imaginary 'iron curtain' of who is okay with multiculturalism and who isn't.
    There was a study by Eurostat a while back, which is the official statistical tool of the European Union. It asked if the family would be comfortable with their child dating a white person (92% said yes), a black person (64% said yes) or an Asian person (69% said yes). Asian here means Chinese basically (whereas in the UK Asian means a person from the Indian peninsula so not sure if they got mixed up there). In my opinion, if you had asked this question in Eastern Europe or South Europe alone, the approval rate would fall significantly to less than 40%. Unfortunately we do not have the official numbers or who was asked, but some possibly fake maps have circulated, though the link in the picture is about unemployment actually, but here it is

    It is how things are. People have these innate defense mechanisms that in the bigger picture create a racial chasm. As I've said earlier, the USA has two signfiicant minorities that are being marginalized, which is what always happens with minorities, but they are large enough to cause friction to the society when they speak out. I honestly don't know the solution to this but I have noticed that it's the source of many problems.

    In Cyprus where I have resided for several years, the island is split now because Turkey invaded due to an ethnic conflict. The reason? 18% of the island's inhabitants were Turks. Now they control 36% of the land illegally and the populace is separated between whatever cease fire line the United Nations have placed.
    The whole Yugoslav wars erupted because there were minorities in some places.
    Africa and to an extent the Middle East are in today's mess not really because of colonialism, but mostly by decolonialism. They didn't let the natives sort matters themselves, the British and to a lesser degree the French just drew the map as if no one was living there and now you have multiple nations with significant minorities and lots of internal conflicts. The last disastrous one was with Sudan, which led to the formation of South Sudan. Then you have the ongoing issues in Nigeria.
    And of course the most popular of them all with Israel & Palestine.

    I think the USA is safe from this kind of escalation as long as the minorities still view themselves as Americans of the USA. When they give up hope in being perceived as equals, then we'll enter into an entire new mess. And once more I'll say that the USA has done a very good job at improving the situation, but it's still not enough. I'm not sure if it will ever be enough. There seems to be too much hatred in the air for this to be fixed with a few legislative points and a couple of reforms.


    On an ending note, I'll give you something from a personal experience. I was studying in London and I had someone come to visit from home. We went on a train and I sat on the left hand side of the train and my relative sat on the right hand side. After a stop, there was an empty spot across my relative but I didn't feel like getting off my seat. A black person sat across my relative. This was a train with 2 seats on either side and two opposing seats facing them. My relative grew anxious at this development, which I found bizarre. This was just some guy in his work clothes going home. After a couple of nods, I joined my relative and sat there. Of course there was nothing, but my relative seemed genuinely scared. It's not as if this was the first time they had encountered a black person. I mean my building's doorman was a black dude that my relative was fond of and my relative's family even lived in central Africa for a while. But this stranger that sat across got my relative going a bit mad. The same thing happened when a big drunken fat white dude sat on the subway next to my relative, so this was something like a mental reflex, some defensive trigger. This person I am describing is not racist, but that moment in the train could convince anyone that it was racially driven. Maybe it was, but at the same time, it wasn't on purpose.

    Now imagine this person magnified into a society of hundreds of million people. A slight reaction may cause an outbreak.

    It could also be related to political ideology really. Different = good VS different = bad. Liberals vs Conservatives. Maybe it all starts there. Or maybe it all leads to what political alignment you'll have.
    I have to run for now but I will take time to read this. I apreciate the time you put in to taking a deep dive on this topic. I think these are healthy conversations that need to be had.

  10. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    "They are made to feel like minorities when their auntsestors have been here pretty much as long as the european settlers. Why is that?"

    That's the original statement that I was responding too. I don't believe the vast majority of the inequalities are injustices. I do believe there are things that could be changed with our policing. Its really hard to definitively prove that racism is the cause of the problem with police brutality. That is to say- African Americans find themselves in life or death situations with police more than other races because they tend to escalate situations more than other races.

    For instance- Rayshard Brooks resisted arrest, punched 2 officers multiple times, then stole ones taser and tried to use it on the police. If a white person did that, theres a good chance the police would shoot at him too...... Yet.... Brooks case is being used to show we need to defund police, and nobody is talking about all of the things Brooks could have done different to avoid that situation. The story is being made that these cops just went out and saw a black man so they gunned him down.

    But to the point- if you are going to say black people are treated worse by society- say exactly what laws are in place to keep black people down? Is society making a choice to keep them down, or are they making poor life decisions for themselves and their families generation after generation? We are no longer in 1860 or even 1960 so dont bring up past laws. Talk about what youd specifically like to see changed to promote equal treatment right now.
    Calling the blacks ďuppityĒ. thatís old school racism. Way to use a classic


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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    "African Americans find themselves in life or death situations with police more than other races because they tend to escalate situations more than other races."

    I repsectfully disagree.

    Not all police brutality is based on racism, but all police brutality is wrong. Theres two different conversations going on here.
    Hmmm- If a cop is defending themselves- Im not sure id call it brutality, but it gets lumped in a lot of the time with BLM protests. Mike brown being shot and killed while attacking Darren Wilson..... thats not wrong. Rayshad Brooks being shot and killed while he was attempting to shoot a taser at the police was not wrong and it was not racism. BLM would have you believe different though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Calling the blacks ďuppityĒ. thatís old school racism. Way to use a classic


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    I know.... trying to address the actual problems isnt as much fun as pointing the finger at everyone and accepting no responsibility. Lets just keep looting target and burning down wendy's because thats a rational and productive way to resolve this systematic oppression thing .

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    Kings announcer of 20 yrs leaves over controversial tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    I know.... trying to address the actual problems isnt as much fun as pointing the finger at everyone and accepting no responsibility. Lets just keep looting target and burning down wendy's because thats a rational and productive way to resolve this systematic oppression thing .
    Resulted in a cop that unnecessarily used deadly force losing his job and the boss that wanted to stick up for him resigning. Iím not a looting and Iím not saying anyone should go a looting but it seems to have produced results


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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Resulted in a cop that unnecessarily used deadly force losing his job and the boss that wanted to stick up for him resigning. Iím not a looting and Iím not saying anyone should go a looting but it seems to have produced results


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    Results from looting and protesting? Thats a joke! Before the protests or the looting even started.... everybody was against what Shauvin did. His police chief, his mayor, Min Governor, the president of the US, every right wing senator........

    The protests werent specific at all in terms of what they wanted to see. Some people were saying they wanted all 4 cops to be arrested. Some people were saying they wanted there to be no more police force in the country, some people were saying they wanted to kill 2 white people for every black person killed, some people were saying they wanted justice, some people were saying they wanted a to start a conversation.

    I still dont have any clue what specifically the looters were trying to accomplish in terms of police brutality. I dont know what target stores have to do with anything- maybe theres too much white in the logo?? I dont know what throwing fire works into a crowd of people does to make things better. I have no clue why CNN doesnt see a problem with the violent looters, but was calling the people disobeying stay at home orders to go open their barber shops and salons murderers.

    Now there are a lot of specifics things they could ask of police policy to help with brutality.

    1) A police officer who does not step in and do something when they are watching someone being abused by another cop should be held accountable. There should be zero grey area with that. It shouldnt matter the rank of the officer abusing the civilian.

    2) There should be clear guidelined to minimize the level of force you can use on someone who is in handcuffs.
    2B) Anybody who has been notified they are being arrested should have severe legal consequences for resisting arrest and not making an effort to cooperate with law enforcement. Those penalties can not be waived by any judge lower than federal level.

    3) chokeholds should be outlawed unless a cop has reason to believe his life is in immediate danger. Police officers should be trained on arm locks. I can live with a cop dislocating a guys shoulder if theres a struggle.

    Ive got a few more specific things i think departments should talk about.

    In short, police should be expected to take control of situations. Criminals should have to feel the full extent of the law if they do anything to escalate a situation.

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    Kings announcer of 20 yrs leaves over controversial tweet

    TLDR. When you mentioned Wendyís I assumed you were taking about Alt. Again Iím not saying looting is a good thing. I do think what is happening in the street has been the catalyst to some govt actions

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