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  1. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    I want to isolate this part as I have nothing to disagree with the rest of it.

    Babies are very likely to play with balls, bears, cats, tigers, snakes, butterflies, wasps, dogs, ants, toilet paper.... I could go on, from toys, to random stuff, to pets to wild animals.

    I get why you think that's a good argument but it's not really where you'd want to base it.

    I'm not sure at what age a kid is mature enough to recognize its own family, but perhaps that's when you should judge this aspect. But if it falls in line with an age where you've already heard your people tell you to distrust strangers then it's a moot point.
    babies then your correct but young kids have a sense for danger even without adult influence. Kids play with each other all the time and acknowledge their differences. When it comes to large numbers however the different one could be left outside the box. Its the Adults however that have mental issues. They are to lead by example. How can they behave worst than kids. They are the ones committing gruesome crimes and think it ok. You donít give excuses to a person that knows better but choose evil no mater your race size or color. Evil is evil. You donít have to like each other but have to respect each other.
    Last edited by ldawg; 06-16-2020 at 11:08 AM.

  2. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Sure is, but we don't have survival of the species if we do not teach our kind what is safe and what is not. It's not teaching good vs bad, it's safe vs unsafe. That's a key difference.

    For example, safe => family, own people etc. That extents to nation (ethnic group) and race as larger the scope becomes. When a mother says to her child that it's not safe to talk to strangers, it includes everyone that's outside the family circle, it's not specific to skin colour, nationality etc. Those things may or may not be automatic, but for sure I doubt the vast majority of people are like "beware of people that have this color of skin" or "speak this language". It's far more likely to be something like "beware of people living in such and such neighborhood", which may or may not have a majority of a specific group with a predominant skin tone or racial group.

    I think there's a reason why socialists are more prone to accept the anti-racist movement as something natural, because they are far more likely to be willing to disband the family unit, inheritance and other things that link people with their ancestors.
    The side effect for having those values is to also be racially insensitive and less politically correct which has become a new trend in the last 10 or so years.

    As someone who respects different cultures and history, I do not like the extreme mixing of peoples and assimiliation of cultures, as I feel that this kills off part of humanity and its history. I'm not against immigration, I'd even do it again myself perhaps even to the USA if I get the opportunity, but I'd like to move to a place that respects its own culture as well as the foreigners that choose to live there. In London I didn't experience this. It was a melting pot of cultures with no predominant British culture but just a city where everything goes as long as you can afford it, while crime was growing in the poorer neighbourhoods. I lived in one of the few rare 'ethnic' neighbourhoods of central London, which was Arabic, and honestly it felt like one of the few with a real flavour. But London isn't an Arabic city, so it always felt odd. It felt more like a neighbourhood of Beirut or Amman honestly than the capital of England. I liked it because I feel closer to that mentality and culture than the British one, but it's always odd being in a country and not feeling the 'local' touch. But whenever I go back to London, that's the place I choose to stay. It feels better for me.
    So London being so liberal and having this area has allowed for people like me and of course those who have shaped the neighbourhood to have a place they feel welcome. But it's not as if the rest of it is unwelcome in comparison. My favorite place to walk in London is Belgravia, which is the traditional wealthy spot, with its distinct architecture and proximity to downtown and it serves as a center for three very nice areas. But I wouldn't live there, it'd feel awkward. That's one of the few places in central London where the English are still a majority actually.

    But back to the safety paradigm. If you notice the countries with least crime, you will notice that they are almost exclusively homogenous with the exception of Switzerland which was always a multicultural country (albeit split into regions of ethnic groups) that has recently - last 20 years - become a host of migrants, mostly from other European countries.
    On top of the list you have Qatar, which is a country with Sharia Law and around 50% of the population are Arabs and it has many migrants who work there. There's also UAE which has Sharia Law, but not a very strict version, but is also a business center made up of mostly foreigners who work there.

    The list goes:
    1) Qatar (50% Arabs, 25% Indians etc)
    2) UAE (30% Arabs, 60% Indians who are mostly workers, 10% others such as Europeans, Asians and Africans)
    3) Japan (98% Japanese)
    4) Taiwan (99% Chinese)
    5) Hong Kong (92% Chinese)
    6) Georgia (the country in Caucasus of course) (87% Georgians, 5% Armenians)
    7) Armenia (98% Armenians)
    8) Switzerland (65% Germans, 18% French, 10% Italian, the rest of the minorities don't make more than 6%...)
    9) Oman (not much data available but it should be over 85% Arabs and less than 5% for the next two minorities each)
    10) Slovenia (83% Slovenes and there's a 10% of undeclared people that probably are part Slovenian and the next major group is Serbs with 2%)

    Apart from the two Arab countries that have strict laws and Switzerland which is considered the model country, I think it's a safe assumption that having homogeneity may correlate negatively with crime. You can say that it's due to the policies in place or make several other arguments, but I think we'll always end up here. You won't find a great deal of homogenous countries that have criminal issues. And they definitely won't have racial issues because only one race inhabits those lands.

    I mean Canada is made out to be some sort of crime free paradise from mainstream US media, but even Turkey and Albania who we in Greece and others in the Balkans in general consider to be countries with notorious crime, they both rank just below of Canada in the Crime Index, as in, they have less crime.

    Poverty, politics and other factors play their part, but I think homogeneity is vastly underrated in how people are mentally calmer. And it doesn't even mean it's a racial issue. Just like you don't let outsiders in your own home, the same applies to a larger extent to a nation for some of these countries.

    I mean just think of how different Japan, Korea or China would be if we you suddently added two large minority groups that make 30% of the population. Regardless of whether these new guys would be speaking the local language, it's going to cause unrest. The USA has the advantage of not carrying historical baggage so it's easier to have these demographics, but it sure ain't ideal from a population management perspective. You are always going to have these issues.

    Which is why as I said in my first post what you need mostly is respect of each other. If you respect that everyone's in this together and that the demographics of the USA reads 95% American instead 70% Caucasian, 17% Hispanic and 13% African American etc, then you'll have less friction. This way it makes it impossible to even see a hurdle when it comes to this.
    There seems to be a lot of "us vs them" mentality from all ends in the USA, it's dysfunctional and not a uniform feel of citizenry. This is what needs to be fixed to eliminate as much as possible any racial divisions.
    Sorry you lost me. Are you suggesting that kids are taught prejudice for survival?

  3. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    babies then your correct but young kids have a sense for danger even without adult influence. Kids play with each other all the time and acknowledge their differences. When it comes to large numbers however the different one could be left outside the box. Its the Adults however that have mental issues. They are to lead by example. How can they behave worst than kids. They are the ones committing gruesome crimes and think it ok. You donít give excuses to a person that knows better but choose evil no mater your race size or color. Evil is evil. You donít have to like each other but have to respect each other.
    Kids will gravitate towards familiarity. If a black kid knows another white kid because their moms are friends and go on play dates and you put them in a group of other white kids they dont know, the two kids who know eachother are much more likely to stick together.

  4. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    That's always been my thinking. It would be odd to be the only species I can think of where members of the species group based on appearance alone. Certainly several species favor their family over other families and there are species that choose a made based on visual cues, but I know of none that exclude based solely on appearance.

    I think those sorts of groupings in humans are learned, either by parents consciously or unconsciously teaching their children, or from the lack of kids ever seeing people who look different to make it more "strange" to them later in life. I grew up in a very integrated community, but when I moved to an all-white neighborhood later in life I suddenly was the only brown skin and it definitely felt odd. No outright racism but it felt like I was being looked at more. But inherent in humans? I don't think so. I certainly hope not.
    I agree, its absolutley learned behaviour. Thats not to say parents are teaching hatred and racism. Rather kids are like sponges they pick up everything they see and or hear. And we cant leave it up to parents to diversify their children because the reality is parents can be racist.

    My father never wanted me to date a black girl. Always had a problem with it. But in my elementry school we were taught about acceptance and diversity and it really made a difference for me growing up in a house hold where my father was extreamly closed minded.

    But eventually my father got to know that girl and grew to love her and that education extended beyond me. It actually helped my father change in the end.

    Im a big advocate for diversity classes for children.

  5. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I agree, its absolutley learned behaviour. Thats not to say parents are teaching hatred and racism. Rather kids are like sponges they pick up everything they see and or hear. And we cant leave it up to parents to diversify their children because the reality is parents can be racist.

    My father never wanted me to date a black girl. Always had a problem with it. But in my elementry school we were taught about acceptance and diversity and it really made a difference for me growing up in a house hold where my father was extreamly closed minded.

    But eventually my father got to know that girl and grew to love her and that education extended beyond me. It actually helped my father change in the end.

    Im a big advocate for diversity classes for children.
    If you ever come to Cleveland let me know - beers and food and whatever else you need is on me, bro!
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  6. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    I didnt say racism didnt exist, and I didnt say that cops never did anything wrong. I just think that racism should not be viewed as the instant explanation for every single inequality that african americans experience in society.
    Ok explain to me what you think racism should be viewed as, because thats the issue at hand. Its a disease in our society thats my perception of it. Id love to hear yours.

  7. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    If you ever come to Cleveland let me know - beers and food and whatever else you need is on me, bro!
    Same goes for you, if youre ever in Houston or Toronto. Cheers my guy

  8. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I agree, its absolutley learned behaviour. Thats not to say parents are teaching hatred and racism. Rather kids are like sponges they pick up everything they see and or hear. And we cant leave it up to parents to diversify their children because the reality is parents can be racist.

    My father never wanted me to date a black girl. Always had a problem with it. But in my elementry school we were taught about acceptance and diversity and it really made a difference for me growing up in a house hold where my father was extreamly closed minded.

    But eventually my father got to know that girl and grew to love her and that education extended beyond me. It actually helped my father change in the end.

    Im a big advocate for diversity classes for children.
    I was kind of shocked when my dog trainer told me to find some white, asian, and black people to interact with her when she was a puppy. But the reason is that if she only knows brown people like me she won't know how to react and I won't know how she'll react.

    My father was a "traditional" thinker from south america, his will actually excluded his daughters if they had children out of wedlock. He was definitely a "stick with your own" thinker. I grew up in a VERY diverse San Jose CA, I never had a chance to be a racist, and my father went all in on being fully a member of his community and the equality of everyone and realized he couldn't be a "traditionalist" in all things. We live, we learn ... but only with exposure.

    One of the main players of the US neo nazi movement woke up to his mistakes because he got to know a good black man. He's spent the last couple decades fighting hate through championing getting to know people and not judging them based on their appearance.

    California does a lot of REALLY stupid things, one of them that I appreciate is that they bus kids from the inner city to schools in the suburbs and they bus kids from the suburbs to the inner city with schools of science, schools of math, schools of art, schools of music etc.

    Kids that know what adults might consider "the other" get to learn they are not so different in a much more internal way than anything their parents say.

    Diversity classes are certainly good, but they are just talk that can be countered by Mom, Dad, Grandma, Grandpa, etc at home. "See that n-word run the stop sign? They don't care about us, only about themselves" "Not even smart enough to get clothes that fit" etc. But if your best friend is not in your race you can't put people in boxes anymore.
    Last edited by Scoots; 06-16-2020 at 01:49 PM. Reason: lost part of my last paragraph

  9. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I was kind of shocked when my dog trainer told me to find some white, asian, and black people to interact with her when she was a puppy. But the reason is that if she only knows brown people like me she won't know how to react and I won't know how she'll react.

    My father was a "traditional" thinker from south america, his will actually excluded his daughters if they had children out of wedlock. He was definitely a "stick with your own" thinker. I grew up in a VERY diverse San Jose CA, I never had a chance to be a racist, and my father went all in on being fully a member of his community and the equality of everyone and realized he couldn't be a "traditionalist" in all things. We live, we learn ... but only with exposure.

    One of the main players of the US neo nazi movement woke up to his mistakes because he got to know a good black man. He's spent the last couple decades fighting hate through championing getting to know people and not judging them based on their appearance.

    California does a lot of REALLY stupid things, one of them that I appreciate is that they bus kids from the inner city to schools in the suburbs and they bus kids from the suburbs to the inner city with schools of science, schools of math, schools of art, schools of music etc.

    Kids that know what adults might consider "the other" get to learn they are not so different in a much more internal way than anything their parents say.

    Diversity classes
    Ive seen it happen. Racists take a liking to someome of colour and it gets the hamster wheel turning. Surely if I like this person there are more like him/her. Thats what acceptance is all about. It onlu takes one good experience to change the perception for someone.

    I think some states and provinces already do some diversification as you mentioned. Id love to see it implimented for all schools. Even if certain schools shared their best practices and whats working for them. Im certain if the school boards came together they can come up with some great ideas. I beleive education where social issues are cocerned can go a long way in the long term. That would be a place to start. These kids will be decision makers one day.

  10. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Ive seen it happen. Racists take a liking to someome of colour and it gets the hamster wheel turning. Surely if I like this person there are more like him/her. Thats what acceptance is all about. It onlu takes one good experience to change the perception for someone.

    I think some states and provinces already do some diversification as you mentioned. Id love to see it implimented for all schools. Even if certain schools shared their best practices and whats working for them. Im certain if the school boards came together they can come up with some great ideas. I beleive education where social issues are cocerned can go a long way in the long term. That would be a place to start. These kids will be decision makers one day.
    My last post lost most of the last paragraph, I went back and fixed it.

    I think the more integrated people are coming up soon. People in their 50s now were kids in the 80s when the TV had MTV full of diversity and the Cosby Show was the top show on TV. Casual racism was getting stamped out all over the place even back then. I think the media and social media has been, in most cases not intentionally, driving divisiveness that makes it look worse than it is.

    This 2020 election is lost in my mind in that Biden or Trump we'll have a bad president, but 2024 ... when a whole slew of old elected officials will likely be leaving, and when the number of people under 35 will be the single largest voting block in the country for the first time since the late 80s ... I think we're going to actually start to see some change.

    Houston and Toronto? I'm in the intermodal shipping business so I spend time on ports in Houston and Toronto, but that's an odd combination to call both home

  11. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    My last post lost most of the last paragraph, I went back and fixed it.

    I think the more integrated people are coming up soon. People in their 50s now were kids in the 80s when the TV had MTV full of diversity and the Cosby Show was the top show on TV. Casual racism was getting stamped out all over the place even back then. I think the media and social media has been, in most cases not intentionally, driving divisiveness that makes it look worse than it is.

    This 2020 election is lost in my mind in that Biden or Trump we'll have a bad president, but 2024 ... when a whole slew of old elected officials will likely be leaving, and when the number of people under 35 will be the single largest voting block in the country for the first time since the late 80s ... I think we're going to actually start to see some change.

    Houston and Toronto? I'm in the intermodal shipping business so I spend time on ports in Houston and Toronto, but that's an odd combination to call both home
    The water in the Houston ports are brown right lol ... Galveston?

    I do agree that the media is fueling the fire. But I also think there is a problem at the core. It doesnt help that this has become a political thing with the left vs the right and antifa is involved stirring the pot. That just confuses things. Like Im not sure what they are doing in Seattle with chaz. I dont see how that helps anything or anyone.

    I do agree and hope that as the new generations emerge that things will naturally change and progess. Thats why I think the real change depends on the youth. Im with you on that for sure.

    I grew up in Toronto, have family in Houston. I have a business in Houston with my family so Im constantly going back and fourth. it doesnt hurt to get away from Toronto winters. Over all Houstons cost of living is a fraction of Toronto. Its alot easier to start a business in Houston as well because land and rent is so cheap. Toronto real estate prices are completly inflated and over priced. A one bedroom condo could go for 600k downtown. In Houston you could buy 3 condos for that price. Its crazy. I was fortunate to have family in both places and orginally came to Houston with an investers visa. But I love and apreciate both Canada and the United states. Both Toronto and Houston are mega cities roughly the same population. One in the North and one being in the South gives me alot of perspective. Love both cities. Raptors and Rockets in each conference is nice too
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 06-16-2020 at 03:53 PM.

  12. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Kids will gravitate towards familiarity. If a black kid knows another white kid because their moms are friends and go on play dates and you put them in a group of other white kids they dont know, the two kids who know eachother are much more likely to stick together.
    Thatís true that is why I say kids pick it up from bad adults. These adults act worst than kids. Very bad example for what is considered a good human. Everyone is just walking around Angry like a ticking Time bomb. Mad just because. Mad and donít even know why.

  13. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    The water in the Houston ports are brown right lol ... Galveston?

    I do agree that the media is fueling the fire. But I also think there is a problem at the core. It doesnt help that this has become a political thing with the left vs the right and antifa is involved stirring the pot. That just confuses things. Like Im not sure what they are doing in Seattle with chaz. I dont see how that helps anything or anyone.

    I do agree and hope that as the new generations emerge that things will naturally change and progess. Thats why I think the real change depends on the youth. Im with you on that for sure.

    I grew up in Toronto, have family in Houston. I have a business in Houston with my family so Im constantly going back and fourth. it doesnt hurt to get away from Toronto winters. Over all Houstons cost of living is a fraction of Toronto. Its alot easier to start a business in Houston as well because land and rent is so cheap. Toronto real estate prices are completly inflated and over priced. A one bedroom condo could go for 600k downtown. In Houston you could buy 3 condos for that price. Its crazy. I was fortunate to have family in both places and orginally came to Houston with an investers visa. But I love and apreciate both Canada and the United states. Both Toronto and Houston are mega cities roughly the same population. One in the North and one being in the South gives me alot of perspective. Love both cities. Raptors and Rockets in each conference is nice too
    La Porte.

    I think that the incessant repeating of the negative issues in society is reinforcing the idea that society is worse in all ways than it was in the past while the vast majority of societal measures shows things being better for this generation than ever before.

    I moved from the Bay Area in California to Austin because of those same issues. Last time I went to Toronto in January I forgot about weather and paid a harsh price

  14. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Sure is, but we don't have survival of the species if we do not teach our kind what is safe and what is not. It's not teaching good vs bad, it's safe vs unsafe. That's a key difference.

    For example, safe => family, own people etc. That extents to nation (ethnic group) and race as larger the scope becomes. When a mother says to her child that it's not safe to talk to strangers, it includes everyone that's outside the family circle, it's not specific to skin colour, nationality etc. Those things may or may not be automatic, but for sure I doubt the vast majority of people are like "beware of people that have this color of skin" or "speak this language". It's far more likely to be something like "beware of people living in such and such neighborhood", which may or may not have a majority of a specific group with a predominant skin tone or racial group.

    I think there's a reason why socialists are more prone to accept the anti-racist movement as something natural, because they are far more likely to be willing to disband the family unit, inheritance and other things that link people with their ancestors.
    The side effect for having those values is to also be racially insensitive and less politically correct which has become a new trend in the last 10 or so years.

    As someone who respects different cultures and history, I do not like the extreme mixing of peoples and assimiliation of cultures, as I feel that this kills off part of humanity and its history. I'm not against immigration, I'd even do it again myself perhaps even to the USA if I get the opportunity, but I'd like to move to a place that respects its own culture as well as the foreigners that choose to live there. In London I didn't experience this. It was a melting pot of cultures with no predominant British culture but just a city where everything goes as long as you can afford it, while crime was growing in the poorer neighbourhoods. I lived in one of the few rare 'ethnic' neighbourhoods of central London, which was Arabic, and honestly it felt like one of the few with a real flavour. But London isn't an Arabic city, so it always felt odd. It felt more like a neighbourhood of Beirut or Amman honestly than the capital of England. I liked it because I feel closer to that mentality and culture than the British one, but it's always odd being in a country and not feeling the 'local' touch. But whenever I go back to London, that's the place I choose to stay. It feels better for me.
    So London being so liberal and having this area has allowed for people like me and of course those who have shaped the neighbourhood to have a place they feel welcome. But it's not as if the rest of it is unwelcome in comparison. My favorite place to walk in London is Belgravia, which is the traditional wealthy spot, with its distinct architecture and proximity to downtown and it serves as a center for three very nice areas. But I wouldn't live there, it'd feel awkward. That's one of the few places in central London where the English are still a majority actually.

    But back to the safety paradigm. If you notice the countries with least crime, you will notice that they are almost exclusively homogenous with the exception of Switzerland which was always a multicultural country (albeit split into regions of ethnic groups) that has recently - last 20 years - become a host of migrants, mostly from other European countries.
    On top of the list you have Qatar, which is a country with Sharia Law and around 50% of the population are Arabs and it has many migrants who work there. There's also UAE which has Sharia Law, but not a very strict version, but is also a business center made up of mostly foreigners who work there.

    The list goes:
    1) Qatar (50% Arabs, 25% Indians etc)
    2) UAE (30% Arabs, 60% Indians who are mostly workers, 10% others such as Europeans, Asians and Africans)
    3) Japan (98% Japanese)
    4) Taiwan (99% Chinese)
    5) Hong Kong (92% Chinese)
    6) Georgia (the country in Caucasus of course) (87% Georgians, 5% Armenians)
    7) Armenia (98% Armenians)
    8) Switzerland (65% Germans, 18% French, 10% Italian, the rest of the minorities don't make more than 6%...)
    9) Oman (not much data available but it should be over 85% Arabs and less than 5% for the next two minorities each)
    10) Slovenia (83% Slovenes and there's a 10% of undeclared people that probably are part Slovenian and the next major group is Serbs with 2%)

    Apart from the two Arab countries that have strict laws and Switzerland which is considered the model country, I think it's a safe assumption that having homogeneity may correlate negatively with crime. You can say that it's due to the policies in place or make several other arguments, but I think we'll always end up here. You won't find a great deal of homogenous countries that have criminal issues. And they definitely won't have racial issues because only one race inhabits those lands.

    I mean Canada is made out to be some sort of crime free paradise from mainstream US media, but even Turkey and Albania who we in Greece and others in the Balkans in general consider to be countries with notorious crime, they both rank just below of Canada in the Crime Index, as in, they have less crime.

    Poverty, politics and other factors play their part, but I think homogeneity is vastly underrated in how people are mentally calmer. And it doesn't even mean it's a racial issue. Just like you don't let outsiders in your own home, the same applies to a larger extent to a nation for some of these countries.

    I mean just think of how different Japan, Korea or China would be if we you suddently added two large minority groups that make 30% of the population. Regardless of whether these new guys would be speaking the local language, it's going to cause unrest. The USA has the advantage of not carrying historical baggage so it's easier to have these demographics, but it sure ain't ideal from a population management perspective. You are always going to have these issues.

    Which is why as I said in my first post what you need mostly is respect of each other. If you respect that everyone's in this together and that the demographics of the USA reads 95% American instead 70% Caucasian, 17% Hispanic and 13% African American etc, then you'll have less friction. This way it makes it impossible to even see a hurdle when it comes to this.
    There seems to be a lot of "us vs them" mentality from all ends in the USA, it's dysfunctional and not a uniform feel of citizenry. This is what needs to be fixed to eliminate as much as possible any racial divisions.
    Blame the American culture not the people. Of all the top modern countries America dont practice social respect, High health care cost, falling behind on education, the negetive nonstop from news tv shows radio, $$ stress, people seeing work going away, etc. While America is still a great place to live they are sliding backwards. To many people are loosing hope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    La Porte.

    I think that the incessant repeating of the negative issues in society is reinforcing the idea that society is worse in all ways than it was in the past while the vast majority of societal measures shows things being better for this generation than ever before.

    I moved from the Bay Area in California to Austin because of those same issues. Last time I went to Toronto in January I forgot about weather and paid a harsh price
    Thats all news and media ever does but right now the propaganda machine def has am agenda. I cant disagree with that.

    Dude I love Austin. Such a cool little city. Lake Travis is bomb and the bars on Rainy st are a sure thing. Love that place. Was so sad to see the protests end in violence there. Alot of the homeless hippies are old war vets too..

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