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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    33,361

    Fix US politics without re-writing the constitution

    You can get congress behind you for reasonable changes, but you can't change the constitution.

    So you can't get rid of lobbying/money in politics/citizens united/electoral college etc.

    I'm going to start with the justice system, but feel free to add any other changes outside of that area too ... budget, taxes, military, regulatory, stock market, banking, etc.

    I want:

    Justice system
    - Legalize drugs
    - No non-violent criminals in prison, garnish wages to victims
    - Prison system focus on rehabilitation, and getting people back on the street
    - Prison reform, no solitary, more responsibility/accountability for prisoners
    - No mandatory minimums
    - No 3 strikes
    - No death penalty
    - No federal funding for police
    - Reduce the number of police, increase the number of police stations so the police are known and more local to their community
    - All fees/fines collected by police go to victims of crimes
    - Mandatory minimum 6 months of training before a cop can be on the street
    - Mandatory body cams on every uniform cop must be on all the time

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    12,737
    I agree with a lot of you points but the thread title is misleading. It should be more like “Fix US criminal justice system...” politics is a different game entirely.

    The one thing I do disagree with is non violent crimes. I said this in the other thread but you’d be allowing someone like Bernie Madoff go free.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    6,777
    1. We can change the Constitution. We just need the will to do so, which is in extraordinarily low supply.

    2. Without amendments to the constitution, however, there are very limited options for changing the national political system. The states can have some impact by altering their input into the national scene (for example, allocation Electoral College votes, rank-choice voting, etc.).

    3. Getting huge amounts of money out of the process is essential for reform. Congress can legislate regulations, but SCOTUS will not be a supportive partner in that process.

    3. As for the remainder — which is more about the system of justice — I too pretty much agree.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,727
    You can only enact change from within.

    So what does that mean?

    We need to push for better candidates. We need more options at the polls than the binary Republican or Democrat. We need younger people in politics. We need, as voters, to help make the path to levels of governance not be so long and winding that they are in their 60's/70's before they 'have enough clout' to run for governor/president. As voters we need to realize it's not just the top of the ticket that matters, but the entire ticket. Get back into voting at local levels. Yea it's great to know what your 2 senators, 1 representative, 1 president, 1 governor stand for. Do you know about your county commissioners? What about your general assembly representatives at the state level? Your mayor? Board of supervisors representative? I would bet 90% of Americans don't know and don't care. And that's half the problem.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    25,341
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    You can only enact change from within.

    So what does that mean?

    We need to push for better candidates. We need more options at the polls than the binary Republican or Democrat. We need younger people in politics. We need, as voters, to help make the path to levels of governance not be so long and winding that they are in their 60's/70's before they 'have enough clout' to run for governor/president. As voters we need to realize it's not just the top of the ticket that matters, but the entire ticket. Get back into voting at local levels. Yea it's great to know what your 2 senators, 1 representative, 1 president, 1 governor stand for. Do you know about your county commissioners? What about your general assembly representatives at the state level? Your mayor? Board of supervisors representative? I would bet 90% of Americans don't know and don't care. And that's half the problem.
    None of that matters unless the electoral college is banned, gerrymandering is nixed, polling places arent closed, voter I'd laws are eased across the board, mail in voting is simplified for everyone, and super pacs are disallowed.

    Then we'll see a true election.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Hope to see some new posters around here soon.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,727
    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    None of that matters unless the electoral college is banned, gerrymandering is nixed, polling places arent closed, voter I'd laws are eased across the board, mail in voting is simplified for everyone, and super pacs are disallowed.

    Then we'll see a true election.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    It really is a cycle of sucktatude. Why? We can't change those things without people in power willing to change it. Politics is a closed loop set up to only help a small percent of the population.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    right here
    Posts
    25,528
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    You can get congress behind you for reasonable changes, but you can't change the constitution.

    So you can't get rid of lobbying/money in politics/citizens united/electoral college etc.

    I'm going to start with the justice system, but feel free to add any other changes outside of that area too ... budget, taxes, military, regulatory, stock market, banking, etc.

    I want:

    Justice system
    - Legalize drugs
    - No non-violent criminals in prison, garnish wages to victims
    - Prison system focus on rehabilitation, and getting people back on the street
    - Prison reform, no solitary, more responsibility/accountability for prisoners
    - No mandatory minimums
    - No 3 strikes
    - No death penalty
    - No federal funding for police
    - Reduce the number of police, increase the number of police stations so the police are known and more local to their community
    - All fees/fines collected by police go to victims of crimes
    - Mandatory minimum 6 months of training before a cop can be on the street
    - Mandatory body cams on every uniform cop must be on all the time
    how can you reduce the number of police but want more police stations? so fewer police at these police stations, which could make them more vulnerable.

    if they are not federally funded, who is paying for them?

    there should be more police, not less. but they should be better trained, including how to deescalate situations.

    don't get your panties in a bunch because you don't like what I'm posting.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome
    the anti-Trump movement seems to be getting dumber

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    33,361
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    I agree with a lot of you points but the thread title is misleading. It should be more like “Fix US criminal justice system...” politics is a different game entirely.

    The one thing I do disagree with is non violent crimes. I said this in the other thread but you’d be allowing someone like Bernie Madoff go free.
    I wanted it to go beyond just the justice system to the whole government.

    I think Bernie should go free and spend the rest of his life working to pay back the people he swindled.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    33,361
    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    1. We can change the Constitution. We just need the will to do so, which is in extraordinarily low supply.

    2. Without amendments to the constitution, however, there are very limited options for changing the national political system. The states can have some impact by altering their input into the national scene (for example, allocation Electoral College votes, rank-choice voting, etc.).

    3. Getting huge amounts of money out of the process is essential for reform. Congress can legislate regulations, but SCOTUS will not be a supportive partner in that process.

    3. As for the remainder — which is more about the system of justice — I too pretty much agree.
    1. I know it's possible, I just ruled it out because it's a MUCH bigger hill to climb.

    2. I agree.

    3. Can't really do that without amendments.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    33,361
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    You can only enact change from within.

    So what does that mean?

    We need to push for better candidates. We need more options at the polls than the binary Republican or Democrat. We need younger people in politics. We need, as voters, to help make the path to levels of governance not be so long and winding that they are in their 60's/70's before they 'have enough clout' to run for governor/president. As voters we need to realize it's not just the top of the ticket that matters, but the entire ticket. Get back into voting at local levels. Yea it's great to know what your 2 senators, 1 representative, 1 president, 1 governor stand for. Do you know about your county commissioners? What about your general assembly representatives at the state level? Your mayor? Board of supervisors representative? I would bet 90% of Americans don't know and don't care. And that's half the problem.
    One way to do that is to refuse to vote for the candidate those two parties have chosen for you if you don't agree with them. The way it is right now the parties are allowed to straight up choose who the candidate is for the party. The primary system is just a show, it no longer actually means anything. Unfortunately the leadership of the parties is not an electable position.

    I agree, also I think we should always look for reasons to not elect incumbents. If you think they really earned your vote vote for them, but otherwise vote for their opponent regardless of party.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    12,737
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I wanted it to go beyond just the justice system to the whole government.

    I think Bernie should go free and spend the rest of his life working to pay back the people he swindled.
    What if he decided to just not work?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    33,361
    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    None of that matters unless the electoral college is banned, gerrymandering is nixed, polling places arent closed, voter I'd laws are eased across the board, mail in voting is simplified for everyone, and super pacs are disallowed.

    Then we'll see a true election.
    The electoral college can be fixed within the constitution if the states chose to apportion their votes rather than all or nothing. It would also be fixed within the constitution if we had the number of representatives as specified in the constitution. It's only a problem because the number of people in some districts has gotten so big. And the only reason the number of representatives stopped growing is because they ran out of space in the room which strikes me as one of the dumber reasons to screw up a system of government.

    I think voter ID is needed because I think we need to have full time voting so everyone can vote on ever coming matter at any time any day and their vote is only counted on what it is when that vote ends, and that would include online voting.

    I also think we should go to ranked choice voting.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    11,809
    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    None of that matters unless the electoral college is banned, gerrymandering is nixed, polling places arent closed, voter I'd laws are eased across the board, mail in voting is simplified for everyone, and super pacs are disallowed.

    Then we'll see a true election.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    You can't just ban the electoral college, you'd need to adjust it
    Banning it would mean going back to national elections strictly by votes, which would make the votes of large portions of the country meaningless. Votes cast by NYC alone could completely negate those of a dozen entire states.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    33,361
    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    how can you reduce the number of police but want more police stations? so fewer police at these police stations, which could make them more vulnerable.

    if they are not federally funded, who is paying for them?

    there should be more police, not less. but they should be better trained, including how to deescalate situations.
    Yes, instead of huge police stations with 200 police we should have 10 police stations with 10 cops each.

    Police should be entirely locally funded like they used to be.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    33,361
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    What if he decided to just not work?
    I guess if he wants to live on welfare then he has "beaten" the system. I actually don't know if welfare checks are garnished.

    Right now he's not hurting anybody but we are paying for him to exist ... if he's out chances are he earns some money and some of that goes to his victims and maybe helps people a little and costs us less.

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