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  1. #1
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    The Jadeveon Clowney Saga continues

    Personally I see this as incredibly fascinating and today this news broke:

  2. #2
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    I'd love to have Clowney - dude can fly sideline to sideline which would help trying to defend Lamar. He'd be opposite Garrett with Richardson and Ogunjobi in the middle.

    I think the Browns are offering somewhere around 16 million and he wants, minimally, 18 million. We have 37 million in cap space and will save 15 million if we cut Vernon.

    Yes, I think he's misjudging the market. Who knows how impactful COVID-19 will be on the future salary cap. If I were him I'd take 16 million apy.
    The Baker has come. Believe the hype.


  3. #3
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    Clowney and Garrett on the edges would just be scary.
    Here's to hoping that this does not happen.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    I'd love to have Clowney - dude can fly sideline to sideline which would help trying to defend Lamar. He'd be opposite Garrett with Richardson and Ogunjobi in the middle.

    I think the Browns are offering somewhere around 16 million and he wants, minimally, 18 million. We have 37 million in cap space and will save 15 million if we cut Vernon.

    Yes, I think he's misjudging the market. Who knows how impactful COVID-19 will be on the future salary cap. If I were him I'd take 16 million apy.
    but can he coach or throw the ball

  5. #5
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    he is a fantastic player who deserves to be paid a ton.... if you arent an OL/QB/Wideout you dont get paid.

  6. #6
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    Jan 2012
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    He's unfortunate in how FA fell. If we had a team worth building before the season I'd love to have him, but we're not in a offseason to give him nearly 20M. I think he's with been 18M and 20M per season, but I think some people are turned off by him being arguably the best edge run defense and just a good edge rusher.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    if you arent an OL/QB/Wideout you dont get paid.
    The 16 largest contracts (total value) in the league are currently held by 9 QBs and 7 defensive lineman. Pass rushers absolutely do get paid.

    The reason why Clowney hasn't gotten a huge contract yet is health and low sack numbers. The latter is dumb but it's clearly something front offices use; hopefully not internally but GMs get judged by public opinion and public opinion says sacks are an accurate measure of how good a pass rusher is. Compare the contracts DeMarcus Lawrence and Brandon Graham got last year for example: $21M average vs. $13.3M. Lawrence went from 10.5 sacks in 2018 to 5 in 2019, whereas Graham went from 4 to 8.5. One didn't really play better than the other in 2019 (or 2018 for that matter) but one is making significantly more money.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    The 16 largest contracts (total value) in the league are currently held by 9 QBs and 7 defensive lineman. Pass rushers absolutely do get paid.

    The reason why Clowney hasn't gotten a huge contract yet is health and low sack numbers. The latter is dumb but it's clearly something front offices use; hopefully not internally but GMs get judged by public opinion and public opinion says sacks are an accurate measure of how good a pass rusher is. Compare the contracts DeMarcus Lawrence and Brandon Graham got last year for example: $21M average vs. $13.3M. Lawrence went from 10.5 sacks in 2018 to 5 in 2019, whereas Graham went from 4 to 8.5. One didn't really play better than the other in 2019 (or 2018 for that matter) but one is making significantly more money.
    It's not just his sack numbers. By any measure he's a pretty average pass rushers and a plus run defender on the edge. He wants to be paid as an elite pass rusher despite not being that overall.

  9. #9
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    It's not just his sack numbers. By any measure he's a pretty average pass rushers and a plus run defender on the edge. He wants to be paid as an elite pass rusher despite not being that overall.
    Yup. You compare him to other elite edge pass rushers in the league and he's pretty average in my opinion. You compare him to the FA edge pass rushers available this year though and it starts to make him look elite.

    I think Clowney would be smart to take that deal. If it was any other year he may be able to wait out for that contract he's looking for but with the whole covid situation, you gotta take it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    It's not just his sack numbers. By any measure he's a pretty average pass rushers and a plus run defender on the edge. He wants to be paid as an elite pass rusher despite not being that overall.
    I'll put it like this: He's good enough to get a big contract in free agency.

    Byron Jones got one and he's not elite either. But he also only missed 1 game in his 5-year NFL career, and he's very versatile, which is a plus in the Patriots-like secondary scheme the Dolphins run.

  11. #11
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    is Clowney this year's Melvin Gordon?

    or is Devonte Freeman........
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    I'll put it like this: He's good enough to get a big contract in free agency.

    Byron Jones got one and he's not elite either. But he also only missed 1 game in his 5-year NFL career, and he's very versatile, which is a plus in the Patriots-like secondary scheme the Dolphins run.
    Apples to oranges though. Corner is much more sought after than edge defenders that can rush some but mostly stop the run.

    At this point he would be smart to go to the likes of the Browns on a 1 year deal at a high-ish number if he thinks that highly of himself. Clearly teams don't feel he's deserving of the big contract he thinks he's worth. So go somewhere for a year to inflate some numbers and try to get paid.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    is Clowney this year's Melvin Gordon?

    or is Devonte Freeman........
    More Clowney than Gordon. I think Freeman is a meh holdout, because he's played 30/48 games in the last 3 years, has declining numbers, and is 28 with a high number of carries. Freeman IMO is the type of player that the league retires by not seeing the need for him.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Apples to oranges though. Corner is much more sought after than edge defenders that can rush some but mostly stop the run.

    At this point he would be smart to go to the likes of the Browns on a 1 year deal at a high-ish number if he thinks that highly of himself. Clearly teams don't feel he's deserving of the big contract he thinks he's worth. So go somewhere for a year to inflate some numbers and try to get paid.
    But Clowney is a "good" pass rusher when healthy.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    But Clowney is a "good" pass rusher when healthy.
    Meh. I disagree. His career high pressure rate is 15%, his lingers at about 9-10%. Average is 12%. Average sack rate from the edge (sacks divided by pass rush snaps) is about 1.8% on average, Clowney is at 0.85% on his career. There is a stat out there that does make him look good, and that's ESPN's pass rush win rate, which measures how many wins a player gets in 2.5 seconds. With that Clowney got 24% last year (It's a new stat so we only have a 1 year sample), which should make some of his raw stats (pressure, QB hits, sacks [30/16/3 respectively]) look even worse in context IMO because he's able to win but not do anything with it (then again those stats also include run plays, not just pass rush plays).

    Basically all and all he's a fairly average pass rusher with upside, but elite run defender for the edge. If he was willing to be in more of a Michael Bennett role (edge on run downs, interior on pass downs) he could take that step, but most reports say he's resistant to the idea.

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