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  1. #8161
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I have agreed that the 13 year old kid made mistakes here, you are again making this an either or situation. It is possible that the kid made mistakes but shouldn't have been killed. Further it is possible that despite that the cop shouldn't take on much blame given the situation and how quickly it unfolded/was dangerous.

    We won't be able to have any real meaningful conversations if some of you guys are 100% on blaming either or and forcing that approach/opinion on others.
    Obviously he didnít deserve to die over his mistakes but I think itís ridiculous to sit here and blame the cop over a split second decision like that. Was it the wrong one? Obviously because he was unarmed. Did he make the decision with the best info he had? Yes

    He clearly didnít see him toss the gun a split second before he turned around. It was 2:30 AM in a dark alley who can blame him? He did one shot and then ran and performed cpr and other life saving measures right away. Called for immediate help.


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  2. #8162
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    This is why they kneel

    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    This thread is dedicated to police brutality and excessive use of force. You walked into me arguing that the cop shouldn't receive punishment.

    And now you're playing the "woe is me" victim card. And that you "just want a conversation".



    Every question you asked to was smothered in your own naivity and bias.

    You started off saying "the kid slightly turned sideface and the cop shot him". A misrepresentation of the facts. You left out things from your retelling of what happened. Not mentioning the kid ran at first. Trying to paint a picture of the kid being compliant and getting shot for it.

    And even though you keep getting called out on it you continuously mention the kids age. Even when asked what you would do in the situation you said " I know I wouldntshoot a 13 year old".

    Once again this is a thread about police brutality and excessive use of force. Who is to blame is very important. You're just trying to obfuscate around the actual topic at hand and talk about how nuanced your opinion. You're opinion is we should talk about it even though we are.

    In most of these cases I've sided with the victim. This one I side with the cop. No one here is saying "I'm really happy a 13 year old got shot". I'd bet money that cop is not happy about what transpired. You can be sad about the situation and still recognize reality.

    Because you just come off as an intellectually dishonest person who is arguing in bad faith. Trying to point the finger at people fir having the audacity to be honest.

    Edit: To be clear I'm siding with the opinion that the cop was justified in his actions.
    I responded to a specific quote about the cop didn't specifically ask him to turn around. There are multiple arguments in threads and discussions like this trying to justify cops actions because some person/kid did not comply perfectly with what they were told to do, right? So why is it different now when you do it? I had a specific question about one of your specific responses then you went on tangents per usual. I am not playing some victim I am just pointing out what happened, trolls gonna troll.

    I painted the opposite side of the picture as you had been. You didn't include some of the information I had included and actually were upset I added in facts lol. You were being one sided and some of my representation was as well just on the other side which apparently went over your head. Like the kids age is what it is it is just you and people getting defensive upset the reality is he was 13. It's a fact, get over it. Also the kid did drop the gun and put his hands up so he was compliant it was just at a very late point which is what I am not disputing (but acting as though he never was is also not based in reality).

    Who is to blame does not have to be the focus of every topic and trying to decide if it is cop or person they killed. Thats kinda a ridiculous stance you just want to try and make it into a black and white thing where your answer is the only one as I mentioned. I can discuss the issue without needing to focus on blaming or punishing anyone I mean one is dead and if the other is a decent person they probably have enough guilt as punishment/would take it back if they could seeing the tape.

    I am not pointing the finger at people for being honest I was arguing specific topics and you started trolling. I love people that argue in good faith and are honest but go back to your first response and the culda sac bs. If anyone has been arguing in bad faith and not actually responding to what has been said it is you. You just demand people see things your way.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 04-18-2021 at 04:34 AM.

  3. #8163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Obviously he didnít deserve to die over his mistakes but I think itís ridiculous to sit here and blame the cop over a split second decision like that. Was it the wrong one? Obviously because he was unarmed. Did he make the decision with the best info he had? Yes

    He clearly didnít see him toss the gun a split second before he turned around. It was 2:30 AM in a dark alley who can blame him? He did one shot and then ran and performed cpr and other life saving measures right away. Called for immediate help.


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    I do not blame the cop other than that I think they would take it back if they actually knew what had happened/they saw the tape. I think they will blame themselves in that sense and it is punishment enough if that is what people need focused on and said.

    I also am willing to discuss and acknowledge what happened in said video where the kid did drop the gun and put his hands up but was still killed. Is there anything we can do in situations where mistakes have been made where an easy out can actually be given to those that want to surrender where they aren't just killed?

    It's tough to have discussions back and forth about what matters and what we can do when people demand you pick a side and defend the cop at all costs/blame the kid who was killed. I am not blaming either as the kid shouldn't have been killed based on his actions as you say and you can't really blame the cop given the circumstances as you also get at.

  4. #8164
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Don't let his statement go to your head, your policies align more with Moderate. Dbrocsinmo is so far over the right cliff, he thinks Santa Claus is a socialist malcontent. Giving away free stuff, breaking, and entering, air traffic violations...

    especially consider you think progressives are a group-think circle jerk.
    Meh I'm not Special. I don't think moderate is synonymous with unbiased.

    And based on the American political spectrum I'm definitely left. On the UK I'm probably a moderate. Maybe even right wing. A lot of people say if you're not at least anti capitalist your not a leftist. But I've never seen any examples outside of their that Socialism works. I like social systems but remain unconvinced of socialized means of production.

    Everyone circle jerks on the internet. Everyone likes to be a part of a group that they believe are "in the know. Whether it's a Jewish conspiracy theory or a deep state plot to stop M4A
    Last edited by MRSpock; 04-18-2021 at 05:46 AM.

  5. #8165
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I do not blame the cop other than that I think they would take it back if they actually knew what had happened/they saw the tape. I think they will blame themselves in that sense and it is punishment enough if that is what people need focused on and said.

    I also am willing to discuss and acknowledge what happened in said video where the kid did drop the gun and put his hands up but was still killed. Is there anything we can do in situations where mistakes have been made where an easy out can actually be given to those that want to surrender where they aren't just killed?

    It's tough to have discussions back and forth about what matters and what we can do when people demand you pick a side and defend the cop at all costs/blame the kid who was killed. I am not blaming either as the kid shouldn't have been killed based on his actions as you say and you can't really blame the cop given the circumstances as you also get at.
    Yes he put his hands up after hiding that he threw the gun and then quickly turning around in the dark where the cop couldnít see it. Again, the kid didnít deserve to die but the people in here saying there shouldnít be cops or that the cop should be fired is ridiculous


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  6. #8166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Yes he put his hands up after hiding that he threw the gun and then quickly turning around in the dark where the cop couldnít see it. Again, the kid didnít deserve to die but the people in here saying there shouldnít be cops or that the cop should be fired is ridiculous


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    But this must at least open your eyes to what people have been talking about for decades. POC can still comply and get shot.

  7. #8167
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    I still want to know where the gangbanger that gave that kid a gun got it from. Does anyone think that would be instructive?

  8. #8168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue6 View Post
    I still want to know where the gangbanger that gave that kid a gun got it from. Does anyone think that would be instructive?
    Not likely. Crime stats in major cities say 41% of crimes are committed by ghost guns, and one city (don't remember which one) said ghost guns used in crimes is up nearly 4000% from just 3 years ago.

    And I have no idea how you deal with ghost guns.

  9. #8169
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    But this must at least open your eyes to what people have been talking about for decades. POC can still comply and get shot.
    He didnít comply. At least not right away and when he did he did it in a way that was hard to tell from the cops standpoint


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  10. #8170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    He didnít comply. At least not right away and when he did he did it in a way that was hard to tell from the cops standpoint


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    Bro you are deranged.
    "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.Ē

    -JFK


  11. #8171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Again letís blame the cop and not the 13 year old who shot at cars at 2:30 AM. His actions didnít lead to his death?? Sure...


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    Police have a responsibility to deescalate a situation. Itís one of the responsibilities that comes with the privilege of carrying a weapon and enforcing the law. But seems like most cops in this country have discovered that with real power comes absolutely no responsibility.

  12. #8172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Yes he put his hands up after hiding that he threw the gun and then quickly turning around in the dark where the cop couldnít see it. Again, the kid didnít deserve to die but the people in here saying there shouldnít be cops or that the cop should be fired is ridiculous


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    Sure given the context of it being night and the kid likely trying to hide that he ever had a gun it made it tough to judge in that instant which is what I have said.

    I think the people going at the cop in the manner are only as ridiculous as those defending the cop at all costs and unable to talk about context without getting insanely defensive/making up other peoples stances. I think its a really bad situation where the kid did not deserve to die no matter how much focus people want to try and make about him bad and the cop has to be given reasonable leeway no matter how many wanna focus on and make it about him bad. The kid didn't deserve to be shot and the cop doesn't deserve to get the blame/punishment. Both to me are true but that nuance gets lost with some.

  13. #8173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    He didnít comply. At least not right away and when he did he did it in a way that was hard to tell from the cops standpoint


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    He stopped, dropped the weapon and put his hands up. That is complying. If you can't even step outside of your normal line of thinking to show some compassion and empathy, then Walter is spot on in his assessment of you.

  14. #8174
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Police have a responsibility to deescalate a situation. Itís one of the responsibilities that comes with the privilege of carrying a weapon and enforcing the law. But seems like most cops in this country have discovered that with real power comes absolutely no responsibility.
    I been banging this drum for years. Police should not be allowed to carry a deadly weapon on their person. Look at the other situation with the guy in his fatigues that ended up getting pepper sprayed. It was a traffic stop for a license plate. First thing the cop did upon getting out of his car was pull his gun out. That is not deescalating at all.

  15. #8175
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I been banging this drum for years. Police should not be allowed to carry a deadly weapon on their person. Look at the other situation with the guy in his fatigues that ended up getting pepper sprayed. It was a traffic stop for a license plate. First thing the cop did upon getting out of his car was pull his gun out. That is not deescalating at all.
    While I agree many like to try and downplay or ignore that being an officer should come with higher standards/more responsibility I disagree with the weapon point.

    In a society like ours with guns so prevalent and everywhere we need those charged with protecting us to have a reasonable chance to stop them/defend themselves and others. It doesnít excuse all use of excessive force but not having guns wouldnít make sense unless you also took them from the population first.


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