This is why they kneel

[mngopher35]

You'll have to be more specific than just "change." What kind of change? I mean people talk about changing police training and whatnot, but I don't know what kinds of changes specifically. That's where not being a police officer or involved with law enforcement at all makes these proposals difficult. If someone wanted to tell you how to do your job differently that they hadn't ever done before, I'm sure you'd have your problems.

With that said, I don't want to overly-glorify police officers. I get they're not Jedi knights. There's good and bad eggs just like anywhere else. They're just average Joe and a lot of 'em are just hot-shot bullies. But on the other hand, they do have the spotlight on them a hell of a lot more than most people. When they make a mistake, it's a lot bigger of a deal than most jobs.

If they are being overly aggressive or trigger happy, and it's the result of protocol, I'd need to know more about said protocol. I think you'd also have to talk about increasing the merits and requirements of being an officer so you could rat out the bozos who probably have no business carrying a gun in a position of authority, which also means significantly higher compensation.

These things are really complex.

Oh, if I am more specific does that mean people will actually listen? Or do you just mean it's probably right, I should explain it, nothing will change and we will rinse and repeat the next time another Philando Castile is killed by police in MN. Oh wait I forgot that was the last time we all went through this, it's George Floyd this time.

The way we police for $, the training, holding cops accountable like say Philando Castile, the blue wall of protection, stopping war on drugs, focus on mental health and recovery and so on. We can address any aspects you would like but at some point doing SOMETHING is probably the best way to show people they aren't just being ignored for more of the same until next time it happens. I am totally fine with higher compensation for better policing, especially given how bad it is now.

The difference between someone telling me how to do my job and this is my job hasn't been killing innocent people over and over for years. That seems important. Things are complex but just repeating that over and over every time this stuff happens isn't really even looking for a solution at the same time and gets tiring hearing the same things on repeat.

[La_bibbers]

I don’t think you have shared any data that actually supports your conclusions. You have shown that there are things that kill more black Americans then Police. That does not proved the black people arent treated differently by police, that BLM people are disingenuous, or that systemic racism doesn’t negatively effect the soci economic status of African Americans. Those seem to be your conclusions- sorry if I am misinterpreting


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In my first post on the matter, I was very clear and provided a lot of data that suggest the reason black people see more police contact is not due to racism, but because black people tend towards crime at a substantially disproportionate rate.

[Scoots]

In my first post on the matter, I was very clear and provided a lot of data that suggest the reason black people see more police contact is not due to racism, but because black people tend towards crime at a substantially disproportionate rate.

"black people tend towards crime" is kind of a nasty sentiment.

[La_bibbers]

Oh, if I am more specific does that mean people will actually listen? Or do you just mean it's probably right, I should explain it, nothing will change and we will rinse and repeat the next time another Philando Castile is killed by police in MN. Oh wait I forgot that was the last time we all went through this, it's George Floyd this time.

The way we police for $, the training, holding cops accountable like say Philando Castile, the blue wall of protection, stopping war on drugs, focus on mental health and recovery and so on. We can address any aspects you would like but at some point doing SOMETHING is probably the best way to show people they aren't just being ignored for more of the same until next time it happens. I am totally fine with higher compensation for better policing, especially given how bad it is now.

The difference between someone telling me how to do my job and this is my job hasn't been killing innocent people over and over for years. That seems important. Things are complex but just repeating that over and over every time this stuff happens isn't really even looking for a solution at the same time and gets tiring hearing the same things on repeat.

When I say change I mean pieces of legislation. What does "holding cops accountable" mean? Fired? Prosecuted? Etc. In what cases are police officers breaking police protocol and not being "held accountable?" What does "focusing on mental health" mean? How do we do that? What about police training is wrong that you think should change? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but those types of details are really, really important.

[Scoots]

One we vote on and the other is a corporation, we have been through this plenty but you get the difference right?

We vote for both. One we vote in polls, the other we vote with our eyes. And the point I was making was that we get the government we vote for, but our voting choices are shaped by how the government is covered by the media and the way the media tells us our lives should be lead and the fear we should be feeling. It's all connected.

[La_bibbers]

"black people tend towards crime" is kind of a nasty sentiment.

It's not, it's fact. I don't mean they tend towards crime by nature or biologically, and have already said I believe it's more about social/economic status (that is, black families tend to be economically less well) than anything, but currently they disproportionately commit crimes of all kinds. Read my post that I linked, it's all there.

[mngopher35]

When I say change I mean pieces of legislation. What does "holding cops accountable" mean? Fired? Prosecuted? Etc. In what cases are police officers breaking police protocol and not being "held accountable?" What does "focusing on mental health" mean? How do we do that? What about police training is wrong that you think should change? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but those types of details are really, really important.

It means that in a case like Philando Castile the officer who killed him is convicted.

If the protocol protects cops in situations they murder another human then we need to adjust the protocol ASAP.

Step one is to stop policing to punish and place in jail but instead focus on mental health and recovery.

I know these details are important, I think that makes it hilarious you are asking someone on the internet to break it down for you. It's almost like you fully understand the problem but want to just use the excuse it is way too hard to fix and just instead ignore this stuff repeatedly happening. I do not have every single answer in the world but at the same time I don't need to in order to point out we clearly need change. I am fine leaving the specifics up to experts.

[mngopher35]

We vote for both. One we vote in polls, the other we vote with our eyes. And the point I was making was that we get the government we vote for, but our voting choices are shaped by how the government is covered by the media and the way the media tells us our lives should be lead and the fear we should be feeling. It's all connected.

Alright but what you just explained is basically what special rants on here daily about. I mean I will go further but I just don't get how you go back and forth with him then constantly bring up media in the same way too. I get that it is part of the issue and biased just like everyone else but they do not create the laws and so on which is an obvious difference and huge factor. There is tons more but I think you actually understand all this so I never quite get why you always bring up media in that similar way.


Ignoring media means they lose $. Ignoring politicians means they can do whatever they want without consequence potentially affecting the whole country. It's different.

[blams]

"black people tend towards crime" is kind of a nasty sentiment.

Agreed



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[Sick Of It All]

This one of y’all “all lives matter” folks? Weird how easily these folks take to shooting and killing...as if maybe all lives don’t really matter to them and they just want an excuse to hunt black people.

He got ****ed up, yeah that was not goi g to end well, but if he had a gun it would have been scary.

[zookman65]

In my first post on the matter, I was very clear and provided a lot of data that suggest the reason black people see more police contact is not due to racism, but because black people tend towards crime at a substantially disproportionate rate.

And white people commit a disproportionate amount of white collar crime. Have you ever wondered why black people tend toward crime at a higher rate? Could it be systemic racism and discrimination that has tended to hold a group of people back? Nah must just be that you are so much smarter than everyone due to 5 to 10 thousand years of depigmentation adaption in N. Europe. We were all black at in the past you god fearing jack...

[ewing]

In my first post on the matter, I was very clear and provided a lot of data that suggest the reason black people see more police contact is not due to racism, but because black people tend towards crime at a substantially disproportionate rate.

Those stats do not show that they are not treated differently. Them being treated differently would actually contribute to them having more police contact. It was not show that BLM people are disingenuous or that systematic racism isnt significant factor contributing to a socio economic gap. Those are yours opinions. You keep saying those that disagree with you don’t have data on their side. But To date you don’t either


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[zookman65]

When I say change I mean pieces of legislation. What does "holding cops accountable" mean? Fired? Prosecuted? Etc. In what cases are police officers breaking police protocol and not being "held accountable?" What does "focusing on mental health" mean? How do we do that? What about police training is wrong that you think should change? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but those types of details are really, really important.

Perhaps 12 to 18 charges against a specific cop shows a tendency towards violence. You probably know that cops disproportionate to the general population skew towards violent personality characteristics.

[flea]

"black people tend towards crime" is kind of a nasty sentiment.

He's right though. Sometimes the truth hurts peoples' feelings. There can't be an honest discussion of policing and black people without recognition that without black crime America would be as peaceful as your average European country. Even if you wave your hand and declare that white people are to blame for black people committing murder and rape along with their property crimes (as SJWs like those in this thread do) it still must be recognized otherwise you're not really discussing the issue at hand.

[nastynice]

"black people tend towards crime" is kind of a nasty sentiment.

Yup, this is at the core of the issue here. If an entire society thinks black people tend towards crime, then that society will treat black people as tho they tend towards crime, meaning these people now as a whole live within a society looking at them as and treating them as if they personally tend toward crime.

Make sense?

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