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  1. #7771
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Why do they feel blamed?

    I believe it ultimately comes down to feeling guilty, which fuels all these reactions such as feeling blamed, etc.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    You think racists are guilty about their race. That's really strange.

  2. #7772
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    That’s because they are conflating acknowledgement with accusation.

    They believe that simply acknowledging white privilege means white people are at fault.

    How do we broach the subject in a way where they don’t feel blamed?
    I have no idea. I think we should stop pushing race as a factor in policy and discussion in general and push equality as the measure going forward. Make it about class and not race.

    I'm not saying we should ignore racism, just that it's a message that is failing to move things forward.

  3. #7773
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    If it's not guilt, then what is driving you to dismiss this obvious, blatant reality?
    I don't think it's obvious for people who grew up white in largely white areas.

  4. #7774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I have no idea. I think we should stop pushing race as a factor in policy and discussion in general and push equality as the measure going forward. Make it about class and not race.

    I'm not saying we should ignore racism, just that it's a message that is failing to move things forward.
    I don’t know either. The problem is once you push equality the people were talking about go “well we have equality”. They believe the biggest inequality today is affirmative action and white people not being able to use the N-word.

  5. #7775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    You think racists are guilty about their race. That's really strange.
    I dont think white guilt = racist.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  6. #7776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I don't think it's obvious for people who grew up white in largely white areas.
    It should probably be even more obvious in those situations..

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  7. #7777
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I don’t know either. The problem is once you push equality the people were talking about go “well we have equality”. They believe the biggest inequality today is affirmative action and white people not being able to use the N-word.
    White people are free to use the n-word, they just can't use it without repercussions.

    One way to push equality is to have race/gender anonymiser services making it so government contracts, school admissions, and job interviews literally can't be influenced by race or gender.

  8. #7778
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I dont think white guilt = racist.
    But the behavior you are attributing to white guilt is the behavior that might be expected of racists. It just doesn't make sense.

  9. #7779
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    It should probably be even more obvious in those situations..
    If you never see people being oppressed how do you know it's happening at all let alone that it's common?

  10. #7780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    White people are free to use the n-word, they just can't use it without repercussions.

    One way to push equality is to have race/gender anonymiser services making it so government contracts, school admissions, and job interviews literally can't be influenced by race or gender.
    The problem with that is by the time it gets to college admissions, contracts, or job interviews their entire trajectory has already been influenced by race and gender.

    I suggest you read Malcolm Gladwell’s “Outliers” as he explains this concept using Hockey. Essentially a disproportionate number of NHL players have birthdays in the first 3 months of the year (enough that it’s not random). The reason is because of the cutoff dates for ages of youth hockey, and kids born in those months although technically the same “age” as the other kids, are in practice 9-11 months more developed, which makes them superior youth hockey players. Club teams then pick these kids for the exclusive leagues and trainers so that by the time all the kids physical maturity evens, they’ve had all the best training so they are at that point superior players. But their superiority is because of training they received as a result of the system at a young age.

    So saying job applications should be gender or race neutral is not a bad idea, it’d be like saying in order to make sure your birthdate has no correlation to making it to the NHL we’ll hide your birthdate for the NHL draft. By that point it’s too late and the advantage of the birthdate will manifest either way.

  11. #7781
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    The problem with that is by the time it gets to college admissions, contracts, or job interviews their entire trajectory has already been influenced by race and gender.

    I suggest you read Malcolm Gladwell’s “Outliers” as he explains this concept using Hockey. Essentially a disproportionate number of NHL players have birthdays in the first 3 months of the year (enough that it’s not random). The reason is because of the cutoff dates for ages of youth hockey, and kids born in those months although technically the same “age” as the other kids, are in practice 9-11 months more developed, which makes them superior youth hockey players. Club teams then pick these kids for the exclusive leagues and trainers so that by the time all the kids physical maturity evens, they’ve had all the best training so they are at that point superior players. But their superiority is because of training they received as a result of the system at a young age.

    So saying job applications should be gender or race neutral is not a bad idea, it’d be like saying in order to make sure your birthdate has no correlation to making it to the NHL we’ll hide your birthdate for the NHL draft. By that point it’s too late and the advantage of the birthdate will manifest either way.
    I've read it, and I know the example. I'm okay with birthdate having an ongoing advantage as that's not something visible.

    Hell we still haven't passed the ERA.

    You minimize the discrepancies any way you can and move forward.

  12. #7782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I've read it, and I know the example. I'm okay with birthdate having an ongoing advantage as that's not something visible.

    Hell we still haven't passed the ERA.

    You minimize the discrepancies any way you can and move forward.
    But making it gender or race blind at that late in the process may actually expand the discrepancies. Which is why we need to start solving the problem at the earliest stages.

  13. #7783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    But the behavior you are attributing to white guilt is the behavior that might be expected of racists. It just doesn't make sense.
    You're stretching way too hard in an attempt to unnecessarily bring racists into the equation. What's the point of that?

    I think it makes perfect sense and I think you know that.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  14. #7784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    If you never see people being oppressed how do you know it's happening at all let alone that it's common?
    The more white a society is, the more a minority sticks out.

    There's a reason big cities are clearly more tolerant of diversity than rural areas.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  15. #7785
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    But making it gender or race blind at that late in the process may actually expand the discrepancies. Which is why we need to start solving the problem at the earliest stages.
    It definitely expands the discrepancies, that's the entire basis of affirmative action

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

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