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  1. #6916
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Sure. There are extremists on both sides. Not everyone engaging in support for BLM or for that matter who were directly representing them in protest were doing it for honest reasons either. It was an easy cause to stand behind and not have to face significant repercussions because it was so vast in number. Most of the protesting for equality was peaceful even though there were people who rioted for person gain as well.

    Similar to those who stood in support of Trump. Most wouldnt take it to the point of where those people stormed the capitol.

    The thing that people can't seem to separate when comparing the two is the point behind them. They immediately demonize the BLM movement but forget that equality and institutional/police reform are what most of those people were protesting for. Trumps supporters are protesting on an illusion that the election was stolen from him. Cause matters.
    Exactly.

    The problem in this forum is that the thought process is so one sided.

  2. #6917
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Exactly.

    The problem in this forum is that the thought process is so one sided.
    I think most posters acknowledge the fact that not all the protesting was peaceful or for that matter is everyone involved in BLM doing it for altruistic reasons. Sure some people rioted using BLM as a guise. An overwhelming majority didnt though.

    Protesting for Trumps constant whining and letting it lead to the point of violence is ridiculous though. Its like the metaphorical equivalent of a child violently throwing around sharp objects in his house over not being allowed to play with one of his toys.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-15-2021 at 06:49 PM.

  3. #6918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Honest admission………

    Some of the conservative Trump supporters are whack jobs. Some of the conservative Trump supporters are KKKers and are whack jobs. Some of who I just mentioned often do bad things in the name of their cause.

    Would any liberals here care to admit that some of the Anti-Trumpers, Never Trumpers, BLMers are whack jobs??? Or that they sometimes do bad thiongs in the name of their cause????
    Sure. No one ever denied that. If I remember right you said everyone one of them was a looter or cheering on looting.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  4. #6919
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Honest admission………

    Some of the conservative Trump supporters are whack jobs. Some of the conservative Trump supporters are KKKers and are whack jobs. Some of who I just mentioned often do bad things in the name of their cause.

    Would any liberals here care to admit that some of the Anti-Trumpers, Never Trumpers, BLMers are whack jobs??? Or that they sometimes do bad thiongs in the name of their cause????
    Who wouldn’t say that there are bad people on all sides of political and socioeconomic spectrums?

    You’re fishing for an argument that doesn’t exist.

  5. #6920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    What was she being detained for………too much makeup??? God awful leopart print clothes???

    Officer had every right to shut this babe up……getterouttahere.

    Simplest thing to do is just do what the police ask/tell you to do. Always.
    Refusing to wear a mask in the business and being asked to leave aka trespassing.

    There is apparently a part 2 to this.

    https://twitter.com/MysterySolvent/s...44415365910530

    If she were black, the family would already be planning a funeral.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  6. #6921
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    [
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Would any liberals here care to admit that some of the Anti-Trumpers, Never Trumpers, BLMers are whack jobs??? Or that they sometimes do bad thiongs in the name of their cause????
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Sure. There are extremists on both sides. Not everyone engaging in support for BLM or for that matter who were directly representing them in protest were doing it for honest reasons either.
    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Sure. No one ever denied that. If I remember right you said everyone one of them was a looter or cheering on looting.
    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    Who wouldn’t say that there are bad people on all sides of political and socioeconomic spectrums?

    You’re fishing for an argument that doesn’t exist.
    There are violent extremists on the left, including many in Antifa and some in BLM, even a few so-called anti-Trumpers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    The problem in this forum is that the thought process is so one sided.
    Satisfied?

  7. #6922
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I think most posters acknowledge the fact that not all the protesting was peaceful or for that matter is everyone involved in BLM doing it for altruistic reasons. Sure some people rioted using BLM as a guise. An overwhelming majority didnt though.

    Protesting for Trumps constant whining and letting it lead to the point of violence is ridiculous though. Its like the metaphorical equivalent of a child violently throwing around sharp objects in his house over not being allowed to play with one of his toys.
    Do you really not see that violence in either case is "ridiculous"?

    I have no issue with protesting even if that protesting comes to the point of defacing state owned property (assuming the protest is against the state), but when people get hurt (either those for or against the protest) or when people unrelated are hurt financially it's going too far to be acceptable.

    I think everyone reasonable can see that there were people who were protesting peacefully and those who were not in both cases, what I don't understand is when people defend the people who went over the line in one and decry them in the other.

    Maybe with Trump gone some of the craziness will fade, but I suspect as long as these people are in charge (on either side of the aisle) in congress little will change.

  8. #6923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Do you really not see that violence in either case is "ridiculous"?

    I have no issue with protesting even if that protesting comes to the point of defacing state owned property (assuming the protest is against the state), but when people get hurt (either those for or against the protest) or when people unrelated are hurt financially it's going too far to be acceptable.

    I think everyone reasonable can see that there were people who were protesting peacefully and those who were not in both cases, what I don't understand is when people defend the people who went over the line in one and decry them in the other.

    Maybe with Trump gone some of the craziness will fade, but I suspect as long as these people are in charge (on either side of the aisle) in congress little will change.
    Depends on the context of the violence. If its solely done for materialistic reasons like using that crowd of people to steal 5,000 dollar items, its senseless. If its in response to police running over pedestrians in their car (like the multiple videos in NYC), no its not ridiculous. Unfortunately, we had gotten to a place in this country where police forces had unchecked powers. If people had to fight fire with fire to some extent, I understand. White cops should have never been as comfortable committing police brutality on minorities as they had been.

    Yeah, sure, we always gave off the impression that bad cops would be held accountable for their actions but that wasn't nearly the truth. Not to say what happened to George Floyd and the subsequent events after his death will change that entirely but there is a lot more attention on police brutality, institutional racism, that we still aren't an equal society in 2021, etc than there was previously.

    The violence at the capitol had no noble cause. It was about preserving one man's ego because he spent the last 2+ months saying the election was stolen from him. That he couldn't come to terms with his defeat. QAnon conspiracy theories are not a legitimate cause to fight for either.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-16-2021 at 12:53 PM.

  9. #6924
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Depends on the context of the violence. If its solely done for materialistic reasons like using that crowd of people to steal 5,000 dollar items, its senseless. If its in response to police running over pedestrians in their car (like the multiple videos in NYC), no its not ridiculous. Unfortunately, we had gotten to a place in this country where police forces had unchecked powers. If people had to fight fire with fire to some extent, I understand. White cops should have never been as comfortable committing police brutality on minorities as they had been.

    Yeah, sure, we always gave off the impression that bad cops would be held accountable for their actions but that wasn't nearly the truth. Not to say what happened to George Floyd and the subsequent events after his death will change that entirely but there is a lot more attention on police brutality, institutional racism, that we still aren't an equal society in 2021, etc than there was previously.

    The violence at the capitol had no noble cause. It was about preserving one man's ego because he spent the last 2+ months saying the election was stolen from him. That he couldn't come to terms with his defeat. QAnon conspiracy theories are not a legitimate cause to fight for either.
    So, if a cop runs over pedestrians it's okay to respond with violence to people unrelated to that act? How is that reasonable? That's not fighting fire with fire, that's setting a bystander on fire and calling it justice.

    Are you under the impression that I think the police are not doing bad things or that I have a problem with people upset by that?

    Violence against the innocent is never noble.

  10. #6925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    So, if a cop runs over pedestrians it's okay to respond with violence to people unrelated to that act? How is that reasonable? That's not fighting fire with fire, that's setting a bystander on fire and calling it justice.

    Are you under the impression that I think the police are not doing bad things or that I have a problem with people upset by that?

    Violence against the innocent is never noble.
    I believe their argument is those people knowingly perpetuate the system of oppression and are therefore not innocent, which is an admittedly flimsy rationale.
    Last edited by valade16; 01-16-2021 at 04:03 PM.

  11. #6926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    So, if a cop runs over pedestrians it's okay to respond with violence to people unrelated to that act? How is that reasonable? That's not fighting fire with fire, that's setting a bystander on fire and calling it justice.

    Are you under the impression that I think the police are not doing bad things or that I have a problem with people upset by that?

    Violence against the innocent is never noble.
    If police are using significant physical force against protestors ( like we've seen in the past), what exactly do they expect in return? Not to say protestors don't incite violence either but its a two way street.

    I don't know what your impression is. I understand the frustration at police forces in general though because there is a long history of the blue shield protecting its own.

    Where did I mention violence against the innocent is noble btw?

  12. #6927
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I believe their argument is those people knowingly perpetuate the system of oppression and are therefore not innocent, which is an admittedly flimsy rationale.
    By "those people" do you mean anyone also not protesting? I, personally, have no means to effect what happens in other state's city's police forces other than by voting for the people who make the laws nationally, and my effect there is pretty darn small I admit, but that's the only lever I really have to lean on to help them. Locally I can and do do more but even then my ability to stop a cop in my town from acting like **** is pretty small.

    When I said "unrelated to that act" I was thinking not of state owned properties or state employees even but the mass public at large. Are you suggesting that every person who had their lives turned upside down by people protesting (in whatever form it took) is guilty and thus deserved it? Because I can't get there.

    Like I said, you mad at the government? Tell them, tell them as long and as loud as you want. If you want to take it further and break the law by defacing state property? Go ahead. More power to you. (Don't get mad if you get arrested and if it's not the most gentle arrest ever). But don't take it out on people who didn't PERSONALLY commit the act you are protesting, and don't take it out on the public who for all you know think the same as you do.

  13. #6928
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    If police are using significant physical force against protestors ( like we've seen in the past), what exactly do they expect in return? Not to say protestors don't incite violence either but its a two way street.

    I don't know what your impression is. I understand the frustration at police forces in general though because there is a long history of the blue shield protecting its own.

    Where did I mention violence against the innocent is noble btw?
    If you are protesting outside of the permit granted type of protesting (and I have) you have to expect that you are going to run in to resistance from the state. That resistance is almost certain to start with verbal commands, if those are not heeded it WILL get physical. There are limits police should be held to, but for police that's hard because while they have limits the scary 10,000 angry people in front of them have no rules they have to follow. I'm in NO WAY saying that no police went too far, and certainly some administrators went WAY too far in some of their orders to police, but in trying to "control" the protest and in some cases just letting whatever happens happen and exerting no effort to "control" it at all. For instance, the old man who got knocked on to his back and was bleeding out of his ears? That was a shame, but it was totally predictable that he'd get shoved back, and he knew what he was doing when he went up to the police.

    I think we should have far fewer police, they should be far better trained, and they should be far less armed, but I don't think they should step aside when people are breaking the law, and how do you do that when the people you are trying to stop outnumber you by many times and they are not listening? I honestly don't know. The scary answer may be calling in military help, but that opens up another whole can of worms (and I know far more of the bad side of that than I'd like, my wife was the chairperson of the May 4th committee in Kent Ohio ... (she's pissed the Star Wars people are stealing her date)).

    I don't have a nice little answer, but having been a protestor who has been put on the ground by riot cops, and having been an advocate for people who have been wrapped up in legal issues with the police I have sympathy for both sides and can see the places where things can go so easily and so badly wrong.

    You said "violence at the capitol had no noble cause" implying that you felt violence (to private people and private property) in other causes DID have a noble cause. And I just can't get there.

    I wish I had a nice easy answer for how to make all the pain and problems go away, but I honestly think all we can do is address the root issues and wait. And right now I don't think anyone in power is interested in solving any of the problems because no politicians are willing to wait and fear sells.

  14. #6929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    By "those people" do you mean anyone also not protesting? I, personally, have no means to effect what happens in other state's city's police forces other than by voting for the people who make the laws nationally, and my effect there is pretty darn small I admit, but that's the only lever I really have to lean on to help them. Locally I can and do do more but even then my ability to stop a cop in my town from acting like **** is pretty small.

    When I said "unrelated to that act" I was thinking not of state owned properties or state employees even but the mass public at large. Are you suggesting that every person who had their lives turned upside down by people protesting (in whatever form it took) is guilty and thus deserved it? Because I can't get there.

    Like I said, you mad at the government? Tell them, tell them as long and as loud as you want. If you want to take it further and break the law by defacing state property? Go ahead. More power to you. (Don't get mad if you get arrested and if it's not the most gentle arrest ever). But don't take it out on people who didn't PERSONALLY commit the act you are protesting, and don't take it out on the public who for all you know think the same as you do.
    First Bolded: I’m saying those who are turning their lives upside down via violence probably believe that yes.

    Second Bolded: They’ve done that... for over 30 years. It hasn’t worked. What is your next recommended course of action?

  15. #6930
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    I mean the Civil rights movement wasn't all "I have a Dream" speeches and marching. Sometimes, there was violence. Now, sure, you don't see cops spraying water hoses on black people like they did in the 1960s but we are still seeing violence being perpetrated against minorities even in places of more peaceful protesting. There were plenty of examples of that during the summer. Would I call certain instances of violence unavoidable? Yeah because unfortunately peaceful messages of equality, denouncing police brutality/institutional racism aren't always given the warmest of receptions. **** that should inalienable is not. There's a reason why MLK was assassinated when all the man preached for was equality.

    Would you call all of the violent events that led up to the Civil Rights act as deplorable?

    I understand you are comparing responses but I can't put that in the same field as a president's minions storming the capitol because they buy into crazy QAnon conspiracies and that the president was done some horrible injustice. The president doesn't know a horrible injustice if it smacked him in the face.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-17-2021 at 12:12 AM.

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