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  1. #5506
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Racism exists. It just exists in the hearts, brains or souls of very few people. I agree these people are an issue but they are on the fringe. No I donít believe the entire system is racist. I donít want to abolish the entire system. We actually need law enforcement. As a matter of fact, we can totally eliminate race from the equation. Personally, I believe the main issue is poverty and poverty impacts white and black people to the same degree. We can focus on issues that negatively impact poor people and come up with solutions on how to help all people. But separating people into boxes, is what liberals do. White/black, male/female, etc. if you are not for any pro black legislation, youíre a racist, if youíre not for any pro female legislation, youíre a sexist. Makes arguing easy and simple doesnít it?
    You have the audacity to complain about me arguing non-existent points and then say this? When have I ever said to get rid of police?

    The problem with your systemic racism doesn't exist and it's only poverty is that it's not just poor black people being affected.

    And no, Liberals aren't the one putting people in boxes, that is literally Trump at the border. And no, nt supporting any black legislation doesn't make you a racist. But it is very hard to argue you're the better option for the black community if you don't support any pro-black legislation.

    There's nothing easy or simply about this argument, which is why your simplistic "it's not happening at all" take is just that... simplistic.
    Last edited by valade16; 09-02-2020 at 10:06 PM.

  2. #5507
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Also, you saying my goal is to ďabolish all unionsĒ sounds like a very familiar debate....

    Liberals: we have a gun problem in the US

    Conservatives: we have a second amendment right though

    Liberals: we need common sense gun control laws

    Conservatives: your goal is just to take away our guns

    Do you see how these tribalistic arguments lead to no solutions? You are just using these tactics. Imposing points of view for the other side meanwhile nothing gets resolved.
    Except I'm not the one making tribalistic arguments here, you are. Your tribalistic argument is that because police unions are corrupt all public unions have to go. That's the very definition of a tribalistic argument.

    At this point you're so indoctrinated to your talking points you don't even realize when you're making them.

    As for imposing points of view so nothing gets solved, you don't think there's anything that needs to be solved. So stop lecturing me on not doing anything to combat systemic racism when you don't even believe it exists.

  3. #5508
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Except I'm not the one making tribalistic arguments here, you are. Your tribalistic argument is that because police unions are corrupt all public unions have to go. That's the very definition of a tribalistic argument.

    At this point you're so indoctrinated to your talking points you don't even realize when you're making them.

    As for imposing points of view so nothing gets solved, you don't think there's anything that needs to be solved. So stop lecturing me on not doing anything to combat systemic racism when you don't even believe it exists.
    Police unions typically support Republican candidates. Teachers unions typically support democrat candidates. Wanting to abolish both of those unions, seems pretty independent to me. Neither Political side outright supports legalizing all drugs but itís a solution to the issue.

    You want to abolish racism. Itís not that I donít believe racism exists. I donít believe we can abolish peopleís thoughts and feelings. In a free society, you are allowed to hate anyone for any reason, including race. I think itís stupid and you wonít get far in life with that viewpoint but to each their own. However, you are not allowed to have that viewpoint cause you to violate another persons rights. This is especially true for law enforcement. We need a system in which bad police officers (including racist ones) can be easily reprimanded when need be without union interference. Currently, if a cop is to be reprimanded his union representation must be present. And after 5 hrs of debating with the union rep, the cop walks with a slap on the wrist. This system cannot exist if bad and racist cops are to be weeded out.

    Please tell me how this viewpoint is racist and tribalistic?

  4. #5509
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Police unions typically support Republican candidates. Teachers unions typically support democrat candidates. Wanting to abolish both of those unions, seems pretty independent to me. Neither Political side outright supports legalizing all drugs but itís a solution to the issue.

    You want to abolish racism. Itís not that I donít believe racism exists. I donít believe we can abolish peopleís thoughts and feelings. In a free society, you are allowed to hate anyone for any reason, including race. I think itís stupid and you wonít get far in life with that viewpoint but to each their own. However, you are not allowed to have that viewpoint cause you to violate another persons rights. This is especially true for law enforcement. We need a system in which bad police officers (including racist ones) can be easily reprimanded when need be without union interference. Currently, if a cop is to be reprimanded his union representation must be present. And after 5 hrs of debating with the union rep, the cop walks with a slap on the wrist. This system cannot exist if bad and racist cops are to be weeded out.

    Please tell me how this viewpoint is racist and tribalistic?
    I believe that it's tough to make this argument when we've seen multiple high ranking police officers express racist thoughts and of course there is the Commander in Chief. Tough to argue there is a higher ranking person in our country than him and he is absolutely a racist. He has several decades of history to back up that he is in fact a racist.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

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  5. #5510
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Police unions typically support Republican candidates. Teachers unions typically support democrat candidates. Wanting to abolish both of those unions, seems pretty independent to me. Neither Political side outright supports legalizing all drugs but itís a solution to the issue.

    You want to abolish racism. Itís not that I donít believe racism exists. I donít believe we can abolish peopleís thoughts and feelings. In a free society, you are allowed to hate anyone for any reason, including race. I think itís stupid and you wonít get far in life with that viewpoint but to each their own. However, you are not allowed to have that viewpoint cause you to violate another persons rights. This is especially true for law enforcement. We need a system in which bad police officers (including racist ones) can be easily reprimanded when need be without union interference. Currently, if a cop is to be reprimanded his union representation must be present. And after 5 hrs of debating with the union rep, the cop walks with a slap on the wrist. This system cannot exist if bad and racist cops are to be weeded out.

    Please tell me how this viewpoint is racist and tribalistic?
    Should probably have more transparency.

    That's something I just generally support all around.

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  6. #5511
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    you were wrong though, it wasn't but what about something else. what both people did was related to the incident, the officer being wrong in what he said was an effect that was caused by what was said to him, that should also be seen as wrong.

    had to officer piped off the N word for no reason, absolute **** and he would be removed as an officer, but he was responding to himself being called this word, for some reason. doesn't justify his use of the word, nor does anything justify the first use of the word. like I said, both can be wrong.
    Oh, so you donít know what a #butwhatabout is.

  7. #5512
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Police unions typically support Republican candidates. Teachers unions typically support democrat candidates. Wanting to abolish both of those unions, seems pretty independent to me. Neither Political side outright supports legalizing all drugs but itís a solution to the issue.

    You want to abolish racism. Itís not that I donít believe racism exists. I donít believe we can abolish peopleís thoughts and feelings. In a free society, you are allowed to hate anyone for any reason, including race. I think itís stupid and you wonít get far in life with that viewpoint but to each their own. However, you are not allowed to have that viewpoint cause you to violate another persons rights. This is especially true for law enforcement. We need a system in which bad police officers (including racist ones) can be easily reprimanded when need be without union interference. Currently, if a cop is to be reprimanded his union representation must be present. And after 5 hrs of debating with the union rep, the cop walks with a slap on the wrist. This system cannot exist if bad and racist cops are to be weeded out.

    Please tell me how this viewpoint is racist and tribalistic?
    You are taking the worst aspects/version of public sector unions with police over and over and over to say all public sector unions need to go. I specifically asked for the other areas and you repeatedly refused to cover them at all then stopped responding (go figure).

    It's the some of x group are terrorists, all of x group must go type approach.


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  8. #5513
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    You are taking the worst aspects/version of public sector unions with police over and over and over to say all public sector unions need to go. I specifically asked for the other areas and you repeatedly refused to cover them at all then stopped responding (go figure).

    It's the some of x group are terrorists, all of x group must go type approach.


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    Teachers unions are similar to police unions. Go figure we have an issue with both the police force and education.

    Iíve went through this multiple times as well. The concept of unions is bad in the public sector because the people who are responsible for their salaries are the same people who they serve-civilians. This means when members are banning together for something it holds individuals with know direct accountability responsible since tax money is funneled through the government. Governments donít operate like corporations in that they do not profit. They are on a budget. Yet a portion of this budget goes to inflated salaries, pensions and benefits which have been negotiated years prior. Teachers get tenure after so many years, which essentially means that canít be fired for doing a poor job.

    We donít hear about the issues in other public sector unions because those unions donít have as much of a direct impact on civilians as police and teachers do. But the concepts are still negative. Corporations can be greedy. Their only purpose is to earn profits. If they donít earn profits, they go bankrupt (or at least they should). Governments donít benefit from profits. Governments also canít go bankrupt.

  9. #5514
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Teachers unions are similar to police unions. Go figure we have an issue with both the police force and education.

    Iíve went through this multiple times as well. The concept of unions is bad in the public sector because the people who are responsible for their salaries are the same people who they serve-civilians. This means when members are banning together for something it holds individuals with know direct accountability responsible since tax money is funneled through the government. Governments donít operate like corporations in that they do not profit. They are on a budget. Yet a portion of this budget goes to inflated salaries, pensions and benefits which have been negotiated years prior. Teachers get tenure after so many years, which essentially means that canít be fired for doing a poor job.

    We donít hear about the issues in other public sector unions because those unions donít have as much of a direct impact on civilians as police and teachers do. But the concepts are still negative. Corporations can be greedy. Their only purpose is to earn profits. If they donít earn profits, they go bankrupt (or at least they should). Governments donít benefit from profits. Governments also canít go bankrupt.
    Teachers are murdering minorities? Iíve also showed you repeatedly that neither profession receives an inflated salary. You have given no explanations to why public sector mgt is so much different then private sector mgt though Iíve told you multiple times how they are similar. Taking to you about this is like talking to Special about left wing media bias. You have brought in so hard to a conceptual generalization that you could care less about facts or details. There might be some truth the generalization but you arent even trying to sort the fact from the fiction


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    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  10. #5515
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    Oh, so you donít know what a #butwhatabout is.
    apparently you don't. but what about is taking one situation/incident/person and deflecting to something else that is not related.

    for example. Nancy Pelosi not wearing a mask while visiting a salon. if someone brought up but what about Trump who at times has not worn a mask, that is butwhatabout because the situation with Pelosi had nothing to do with Trump.

    this situation here, both the officer and the person he called the N word that first called the officer the N word, are both related.


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  11. #5516
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Teachers are murdering minorities? Iíve also showed you repeatedly that neither profession receives an inflated salary. You have given no explanations to why public sector mgt is so much different then private sector mgt though Iíve told you multiple times how they are similar. Taking to you about this is like talking to Special about left wing media bias. You have brought in so hard to a conceptual generalization that you could care less about facts or details. There might be some truth the generalization but you arent even trying to sort the fact from the fiction


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    You do realize unions have negotiated these pensions and benefits for both police and teachers as well right? Teachers and cops who retired 30 years ago are still being paid pensions and benefits. Civil servants are paid well in the public sector. No they donít make what CEOs make and of course, they deserve more money. But the government does not have unlimited funds and the negotiating methods used by unions are brutal.

    Teachers are not murdering minorities but poor education is killing our inner cities. Wouldnít you agree? Iíve looked at your numbers regarding their salaries. Itís not that I need to prove the numbers to be different. I just think the salaries are reasonable when considering benefits and pensions.

  12. #5517
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    You do realize unions have negotiated these pensions and benefits for both police and teachers as well right? Teachers and cops who retired 30 years ago are still being paid pensions and benefits. Civil servants are paid well in the public sector. No they donít make what CEOs make and of course, they deserve more money. But the government does not have unlimited funds and the negotiating methods used by unions are brutal.

    Teachers are not murdering minorities but poor education is killing our inner cities. Wouldnít you agree? Iíve looked at your numbers regarding their salaries. Itís not that I need to prove the numbers to be different. I just think the salaries are reasonable when considering benefits and pensions.


    Bold 1ÖNegotiators on the side of the public are not negotiating with their own $$$$. They have nothing to lose by giving in to ridiculous demands.

    Bold 2ÖBa da boom, ba da bing. I would also addÖvery reasonable when you consider the quality of the product they produce.

  13. #5518
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    https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/03/us/ro...ath/index.html

    Officers covered head of Black man and held him to the ground before he stopped breathing, bodycam video shows
    Newly released police video of a March incident that led to a Black man's death in Rochester, New York, shows officers covering his head with a "spit sock" and holding him on the ground before he stopped breathing.

    Daniel Prude was having a mental health episode on March 23 when his brother Joe called the Rochester Police Department for help, the family said at a press conference Wednesday.

    Prude stopped breathing after police knelt on him while he was naked and handcuffed, according to video. When he was brought to the hospital 15 minutes later, he was brain dead, his brother said.
    this black man wasn't treated right.

    is a spit sock really something legit used? how can it be okay to put something like this over someone's head.

    this is an incident where I could see mental health experts going to the scene along with police, and for them to have the first interaction. police don't need to be arriving and expecting a criminal scene.


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  14. #5519
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    the use of a spit hood (which I say assuming it's breathable) I have less of an issue with than the whole handling of this...including LEAVING that hood on while being held to the ground.....firstly, quite obviously, the end result is deplorable....in addition to that, for one how could it EVER be logical to put a naked man down on the pavement

    But yes, this would be the very reason to include someone trained in mental health in these calls....didn't his family call 911 and TELL them he was having mental issues? Wouldn't running naked in the streets validate that likelihood? You simply can't ignore that when dealing with someone....and regardless, you don't mock him while he's down and continue the terrible tactics they did.

    Of course, this is just coming out now and to some it will be viewed like it just HAPPENED now, when it happened prior to George Floyd.....but still, those officers deserve the same potential punishment as those officers in MSP.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  15. #5520
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    Trump who at times has not worn a mask
    More comedy gold.

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