Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 73
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    12,494

    Government of the people, by the people, for the people PSD Grassroots rebuild

    Since I started frequenting this forum a few months back certain things are obvious. One of those things is that the majority of us here realize there are major problems in our government, from the party system on through the separation of power and applications of our constitution.

    So I thought I'd start a discussion about what people would do, right now, to begin taking the country back, a government of, by, and for the people as was originally intended...not as we're forced to accept in the current situation we find ourselves in.

    If you were beginning a grassroots campaign...not to be elected to an office, but to start the changes needed to reclaim the government for the people of this country, not the elite, not the wealthy, not the politicians...the people...how would you go about doing that? Remember, to do this changes have to happen not just from where we are today, but in a way things still function while these changes are happening. Can it be done? Or would it continuously just devolve into, a term thrown out here often, tribalism before it just runs out of energy?
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    73,694
    Without getting into specific policy (GND, m4A, etc. and other much-discussed ideas are absolute musts for me)...

    I don't see how any flag-waving, Democracy-loving person can be against getting money out of politics. Overturn Citizens United, lobbying reform, campaign finance reform, etc. etc. etc. People think the "other" party's politicians are all corrupt bought-and-sold goons. They're usually right. But so are "their" politicians too. It's such a hindrance to necessary progress at every single front. Voting should also be simple and accessible. Just basic **** when it comes to Democracy. We're falling behind.

    And then financially. Big picture: 1) divest in defense spending and invest it in the people and 2) redistribute wealth. I think it's inarguable that we spend way too much on defense and that our foreign policy decisions for decades now have been counterproductive money-pits. The DOD is the largest employer in the world. Won't ever hear a red-baiting capitalist mention that. Let's spend some of that money on things that ACTUALLY help the people out. This shouldn't be controversial either. Hell, Trump in many ways ran on that. Infrastructure, education, (GND), healthcare...and so on. Worthwhile jobs that actually help quality of life. Why not? As for the second point I obviously have my more specific beliefs but the transfer of wealth we've seen for decades now is astonishing and has left so many people behind. The younger generations have so little wealth and so much debt. It's not good. Bury your head in the sand but I know everyone can see that. Again, I'll stay out of specific ideas.

    I could go on and on and on and on. I like policy. I think policy matters. I think A LOT of policy matters. Global warming, healthcare, criminal justice, etc. But I do think when we remove ourselves from our emotions and get out of the mindset of treating politics like sport, we can all agree that we should strive for a healthier Democracy and demand more prosperity for more Americans. We might think it needs to come via different approaches, but how can you not want that?

    I have some faith in the youth of this country. I think the majority see what's happening. They see where the wealth sits. They see who the government works for. They see a lack of opportunity. They see waste and inefficiency. They understand our imperialism doesn't serve us. And obviously, given my left beliefs, I think it has to be the Democrats that lead us that way. And unfortunately, it's very clear they don't want to. That's what's been keeping me down lately. I think in many ways many Dems want to stave off the left more than defeat destructive conservative policy. But we're getting more off topic...
    HELLO

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    31,946
    I would basically attempt to get profits out of govt. I would not do this by challenging the system, I would do it by working with the system. No one can challenge the system and win.

    I would do it by incentivizing the industry in the direction I want it to go while being a minimal threat to the current status quo. So for example, if I'm trying to push green cars then I would give oil companies the first dibs on building electric stations. This way even tho they're getting hit on one side, they're winning on another. Ideally I would set it up so they are winning by doing what is best for the people and country.

    I believe Bernies biggest mistake in 2016 was that he seemed to confront the status quo too directly.


    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Flock of Sheep No.97 near BAAA BAA lane
    Posts
    11,912
    Show me a movement that didn't confront the status quo directly and still got their agenda pass into policy? I think you are forgetting that those in power don't give up their power willingly. You have to force them to give it up.

    Thank god the abolishionist movement were very direct about ending Slavery.We would still have Jim Crow if MLK and the SCLC wasn't very direct in confronting the status quo.
    Last edited by WES445; 07-30-2020 at 03:19 PM.
    WE STILL KNOW WHERE THE PITCHFORKS ARE:Beau of the Fifth Column, you tube.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Flock of Sheep No.97 near BAAA BAA lane
    Posts
    11,912
    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Without getting into specific policy (GND, m4A, etc. and other much-discussed ideas are absolute musts for me)...

    I don't see how any flag-waving, Democracy-loving person can be against getting money out of politics. Overturn Citizens United, lobbying reform, campaign finance reform, etc. etc. etc. People think the "other" party's politicians are all corrupt bought-and-sold goons. They're usually right. But so are "their" politicians too. It's such a hindrance to necessary progress at every single front. Voting should also be simple and accessible. Just basic **** when it comes to Democracy. We're falling behind.

    And then financially. Big picture: 1) divest in defense spending and invest it in the people and 2) redistribute wealth. I think it's inarguable that we spend way too much on defense and that our foreign policy decisions for decades now have been counterproductive money-pits. The DOD is the largest employer in the world. Won't ever hear a red-baiting capitalist mention that. Let's spend some of that money on things that ACTUALLY help the people out. This shouldn't be controversial either. Hell, Trump in many ways ran on that. Infrastructure, education, (GND), healthcare...and so on. Worthwhile jobs that actually help quality of life. Why not? As for the second point I obviously have my more specific beliefs but the transfer of wealth we've seen for decades now is astonishing and has left so many people behind. The younger generations have so little wealth and so much debt. It's not good. Bury your head in the sand but I know everyone can see that. Again, I'll stay out of specific ideas.

    I could go on and on and on and on. I like policy. I think policy matters. I think A LOT of policy matters. Global warming, healthcare, criminal justice, etc. But I do think when we remove ourselves from our emotions and get out of the mindset of treating politics like sport, we can all agree that we should strive for a healthier Democracy and demand more prosperity for more Americans. We might think it needs to come via different approaches, but how can you not want that?

    I have some faith in the youth of this country. I think the majority see what's happening. They see where the wealth sits. They see who the government works for. They see a lack of opportunity. They see waste and inefficiency. They understand our imperialism doesn't serve us. And obviously, given my left beliefs, I think it has to be the Democrats that lead us that way. And unfortunately, it's very clear they don't want to. That's what's been keeping me down lately. I think in many ways many Dems want to stave off the left more than defeat destructive conservative policy. But we're getting more off topic...
    Agree. I think the youth are not just seeing what is happening more clearly but they are feeling it more deeply. They are leaving school with massive debt. They grew up with endless wars, suffer one economical downturn in 08, and another one with this pandemic, facing higher cost living than their parents did when they started building a family.

    This generation have more in common with the great depression era generation even suffering from the organized crime that is sweeping Chicago which people call Black on Black crime instead of a black gangster on poor black crime. As well as possible Spanish flu like pandemic.

    They can't swallow the Americana bs because they are choking economically on reality
    Last edited by WES445; 07-30-2020 at 03:36 PM.
    WE STILL KNOW WHERE THE PITCHFORKS ARE:Beau of the Fifth Column, you tube.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    12,494
    I hope you guys are right about today's youth because from MY view and MY experience, I've seen a serious decline in work ethic each of the last 3 generations. Too many seem to think they're entitled to things they've not yet earned in the way we had to....but that's what I'VE seen...consistently, but only my sample size.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Flock of Sheep No.97 near BAAA BAA lane
    Posts
    11,912
    My experience is different, I know a lot of young people who are trying to do the right thing in my nieghorhood, but their faith in the government and their ability to get ahead is slipping fast for good reasons. But I won't say that is a reflection of all kids their age.
    WE STILL KNOW WHERE THE PITCHFORKS ARE:Beau of the Fifth Column, you tube.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Flock of Sheep No.97 near BAAA BAA lane
    Posts
    11,912
    Some have good jobs and some are stuck in poor jobs, but they keep plugging away. They need help but it isn't giving to them because our leaders agenda.
    WE STILL KNOW WHERE THE PITCHFORKS ARE:Beau of the Fifth Column, you tube.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    12,494
    Maybe I'm jaded by the number of times I lost jobs to 30 somethings who didn't know a quarter of what I knew about the job nor stayed at the job half as long as I would have......then, in the government, watched far too many waste most of their day in 'water cooler talk' while complaining they should be getting better pay and more promotions...then too often GETTING them because another younger person had just paved the way for it and were now the ones making those decisions. Yeah, a bit bitter to have had to deal with being underpaid most of the past 25 years (first ten of those being for family, often a recipe to be underpaid)
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Hell on Earth- Missouri
    Posts
    14,070
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    I hope you guys are right about today's youth because from MY view and MY experience, I've seen a serious decline in work ethic each of the last 3 generations. Too many seem to think they're entitled to things they've not yet earned in the way we had to....but that's what I'VE seen...consistently, but only my sample size.
    Pretty much what I have seen. Several years ago I hired 4 college grads over a 12 month period due to the lack of availability of skilled project managers. If the're good...they're working. The pay the college grads demanded was equal to that of a PM with 10 years of experience.

    All were salaried positions and you could set your clock every day at 5pm because that door was swinging closed whether their work was finished or not. More than often not.

    They felt very entitled and that they already earned seniority because they were graduates. lol. I literally had to wake one of them up in the middle of a project kick-off meeting at a clients facility. Not a single one lasted more then 15 months.
    GJO- You will never be forgotten. "MORE THAN MINFINITY"!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    12,494
    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Pretty much what I have seen. Several years ago I hired 4 college grads over a 12 month period due to the lack of availability of skilled project managers. If the're good...they're working. The pay the college grads demanded was equal to that of a PM with 10 years of experience.

    All were salaried positions and you could set your clock every day at 5pm because that door was swinging closed whether their work was finished or not. More than often not.

    They felt very entitled and that they already earned seniority because they were graduates. lol. I literally had to wake one of them up in the middle of a project kick-off meeting at a clients facility. Not a single one lasted more then 15 months.
    Worked for the state the last 5 years and a good portion of the people in my building were 35 and under. Most of them would head out to lunch about 11:45 and wander back in about 1:15 despite having not really started working before 9....and 5 was almost like them leaving late. They got away with it because their bosses were also in that age group and doing the same thing. They'd travel when there was no reason for them to, so 3-4 of them would take turns driving, all staying in hotels and sucking up per diem, when most of the time at most 1 of them needed to make the trip. Then come Friday, virtually every one of them took most or all of it off because they supposedly already had their 40 in....even tho a lot of them were salaried anyway. Not like I didn't see that in older people, but it was probably like 30% of them while it was more like 80-90% of younger people.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    born and raised on the south side of Chicago.
    Posts
    14,825
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Worked for the state the last 5 years and a good portion of the people in my building were 35 and under. Most of them would head out to lunch about 11:45 and wander back in about 1:15 despite having not really started working before 9....and 5 was almost like them leaving late. They got away with it because their bosses were also in that age group and doing the same thing. They'd travel when there was no reason for them to, so 3-4 of them would take turns driving, all staying in hotels and sucking up per diem, when most of the time at most 1 of them needed to make the trip. Then come Friday, virtually every one of them took most or all of it off because they supposedly already had their 40 in....even tho a lot of them were salaried anyway. Not like I didn't see that in older people, but it was probably like 30% of them while it was more like 80-90% of younger people.
    Maybe the problem isn't them... Maybe the problem is that you haven't been asking for enough from the non-job part of your life. The USA works more than any other country (I say this as a person horribly addicted to overworking... at my mid-tenure review the toughest question I got was "Do you think you will burn out?") and perhaps we should take more of a European approach to life.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    12,494
    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Maybe the problem isn't them... Maybe the problem is that you haven't been asking for enough from the non-job part of your life. The USA works more than any other country (I say this as a person horribly addicted to overworking... at my mid-tenure review the toughest question I got was "Do you think you will burn out?") and perhaps we should take more of a European approach to life.
    Oh, I don't think it's too much to ask for them to put in more than 25 hours of actual work a week while getting paid for 40 yet still hear them complain they're underpaid.

    But yeah, I grew up on a farm...was put on a tractor by the time I was 8, so small I had to jump down on the clutch with both feet to change gears........but that's where phrases like 'I work hard so I can play hard' came from. If I wanted something beyond the basics, I needed to find a way to earn the money to pay for it. Bought my first car for $50 then spent $200 on parts and 3 months of spare time to get it running. So yeah, I get that my work ethic grew from a far different place than most of theirs did.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    14,490
    Getting rid of lobbying is something almost all voters agree on and it's also something we'll never get because you know why.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    parts unknown
    Posts
    47,620
    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Maybe the problem isn't them... Maybe the problem is that you haven't been asking for enough from the non-job part of your life. The USA works more than any other country (I say this as a person horribly addicted to overworking... at my mid-tenure review the toughest question I got was "Do you think you will burn out?") and perhaps we should take more of a European approach to life.
    I work a lot of hours and I hate it. Iím applying for a demotion. Iíve tried before and they donít give it to me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Rep Power: 0




    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  16. 07-30-2020, 06:42 PM

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •