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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    And how do you propose they fix this culture change? You realize thereís racist and bad people in every profession. A couple bad cops donít overlook all the good cops who protect and serve this country.

    Itís just sickening to see cops constantly under attack over a few bad apple cops.
    I posted several things on page 2. Nobody replied.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    How many cops watched this happen? At what point is it not a few bad apples?

    And sure there are racists in every profession... But it's this profession's job to protect and serve. This is different then whilhelm the neo-nazi baker.
    All police on scene should be charged and held to a higher standard than if this was done by non-police.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    And how do you propose they fix this culture change? You realize thereís racist and bad people in every profession. A couple bad cops donít overlook all the good cops who protect and serve this country.

    Itís just sickening to see cops constantly under attack over a few bad apple cops.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Almost as sickening as cops (who should absolutely be held to a higher standard) killing people unnecessarily.

    PSD: Where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    You need cops to be better integrated into minority communities. I also think the vetting process for becoming a cop needs to become more thorough. There should be annual psychological background checks on cops imo as well.

    This cop had a dozen complaints against him since 2001. You would think at some point that might have put his job in jeopardy, right? I understand not all complaints have legitimacy but fool me once, shame on you, fool me twelve times and maybe there is smoke by that fire.

    I agree that a few bad apples spoil the bunch but there needs to be checks in place. There are way too many instances where white cops use excessive force on minorities.
    It's not vetting, it's that they are put in to service far too fast. Psych checks have proven to be easy to game. It's citizen reports that should be encouraged, and if a cop gets 2 serious reports in 6 months they should then be restricted to not be allowed to interact with the public without a senior officer for a year. 2 more reports and they are done.

    If the public knew that reporting an office would lead to their dismissal they would take it more seriously. There is nothing wrong with the public being in control of who polices them.

    In the past in Oakland police officers would get the city to pay their rent if they lived in the worst neighborhoods and agreed to be publicly visible and involved in the community.
    Last edited by Scoots; 05-27-2020 at 10:53 PM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Maybe benny can do something about it.
    I tried, no luck. I asked them to maybe not get so offended, they replied, "the ****," and that was that.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Itís just sickening to see cops constantly under attack over a few bad apple cops.


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    You would think this logic applies to the muslim ban as well..

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

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    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It's not vetting, it's that they are put in to service far too fast. Psych checks have proven to be easy to game. It's citizen reports that should be encouraged, and if a cop gets 2 serious reports in 6 months they should then be restricted to not be allowed to interact with the public without a senior officer for a year. 2 more reports and they are done.

    If the public knew that reporting an office would lead to their dismissal they would take it more seriously. There is nothing wrong with the public being in control of who polices them.

    In the past in Oakland police officers would get the city to pay their rent if they lived in the worst neighborhoods and agreed to be publicly visible and involved in the community.
    I think the vetting process to be hired should be more thorough but I do agree they are put into active duty too soon. That said, this cop had a ton of experience and still did what he did. I think the tactics for necessary force need to change as well. When someone is put in a position where they are of no danger, the cops should find less restrictive techniques than knees in the back or knees in the neck. I think mandatory psychological evaluations should be common, whether they are easy to master or not (I dont think its as easy as you let on), it gives their bosses a better idea of what the officer is dealing with, who they are, and how those things can affect the ability for those officers to do their jobs coherently.

    Again, the issue with citizen complaints (especially in larger cities) is many people in minority concentrated communities dont like or trust cops and for good reason. Some of those complaints are going to be without merit but its hard to believe all of them were for this officer.

    I do like the idea of cops living in communities with higher crime but its difficult to convince them to do so.
    There are no full proof methods but what they are doing now is not working.
    Last edited by metswon69; 05-28-2020 at 03:47 AM.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    You would think this logic applies to the muslim ban as well..
    What muslim ban?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    What muslim ban?
    The one the entire world dreamed up together...

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I think the vetting process to be hired should be more thorough but I do agree they are put into active duty too soon. That said, this cop had a ton of experience and still did what he did. I think the tactics for necessary force need to change as well. When someone is put in a position where they are of no danger, the cops should find less restrictive techniques then knees in the back or knees in the neck. I think mandatory psychological evaluations should be common, whether they are easy to master or not (I dont think its as easy as you let on), it gives his bosses a better idea of what the officer is dealing with, who he is. and how those things can affect the ability for him to do his job correctly.

    Again, the issue with citizen complaints (especially in larger cities) is many people in minority concentrated communities dont like or trust cops and for good reason. Some of those complaints are going to be without merit but its hard to believe all of them were for this officer.

    I do like the idea of cops living in communities with higher crime but its difficult to convince them to do so.
    There are no full proof methods but what they are doing now is not working.
    The tactics cops use were dramatically simplified when they went from 9 to 12 months of training down to 1.

    A cop with tons of bad experience doesn't make for a better cop. It's the training up front that sets the foundation for a better police force.

    I did say serious complaints. Complaints that stand up to some level of investigation, but with the presumption that the citizen is telling the truth. The citizen complaints thing needs to be advertised to the community to build that trust. If they keep complaining about police they will keep getting new police and the quality may go down. It will find an equilibrium.

    Also, part of the solution has to be getting money out of policing as that often drives the perspective of the police and the community they police.

    Free housing is fairly enticing, but a cop with a family is not likely to choose it. A cop buddy of mine who took advantage of it after his divorce had a significant effect on the crime rate in his neighborhood as the older members of the community started defending the police to the younger generations and some of the parents would threaten to (and some did) call Officer Mike to come talk to their kids. He was a 6'5" white guy with a big cop mustache living in the projects in Oakland, the neighborhood knew him for him walking his tiny papillon dog at all hours of the day and night.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    The one the entire world dreamed up together...
    Based on the population of muslims in the world it REALLY didn't work.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Based on the population of muslims in the world it REALLY didn't work.
    I thought the bigot ban being illegal is why it didnt work.. ?

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Yep. The good ones willingly acting as a shield for the bad ones is a huge part of the problem. They aren't out there killing people who shouldn't be, but they willingly act as a deflector to try and ensure that the bad ones don't receive accountability.
    Well, that's the problem- they are not good ones then. They're just as terrible.

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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I thought the bigot ban being illegal is why it didnt work.. ?
    Is there anything illegal worldwide?

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    The tactics cops use were dramatically simplified when they went from 9 to 12 months of training down to 1.

    A cop with tons of bad experience doesn't make for a better cop. It's the training up front that sets the foundation for a better police force.

    I did say serious complaints. Complaints that stand up to some level of investigation, but with the presumption that the citizen is telling the truth. The citizen complaints thing needs to be advertised to the community to build that trust. If they keep complaining about police they will keep getting new police and the quality may go down. It will find an equilibrium.

    Also, part of the solution has to be getting money out of policing as that often drives the perspective of the police and the community they police.

    Free housing is fairly enticing, but a cop with a family is not likely to choose it. A cop buddy of mine who took advantage of it after his divorce had a significant effect on the crime rate in his neighborhood as the older members of the community started defending the police to the younger generations and some of the parents would threaten to (and some did) call Officer Mike to come talk to their kids. He was a 6'5" white guy with a big cop mustache living in the projects in Oakland, the neighborhood knew him for him walking his tiny papillon dog at all hours of the day and night.
    Well if they shortened those programs, that's certainly a big part of the problem. Cops need more training, not less. Both in terms of physical force and techniques for de-escalation.

    True but cops can pick up bad habits along the way just because of the lack of checks and balances. The PBA unions and blue wall protections are so strong that these guys get way too comfortable not doing things by the book. That has to change as well.

    I agree but we don't know the extent of those complaints. If they come to find out they were serious claims, then you wonder what he was still doing on the force. With a dozen complaints, the odds are very good something wasn't done that should have been. That's a failure of the force and it happens far too often.

    Eh, I dont think free housing is enough incentive to live in a neighborhood where the serious crime rate is significantly higher than the surrounding communities. For some cops, sure, but I think they can find more incentive for cops to consider living in those neighborhoods. Either way, its a good start. Many of these white cops only come across minorities when they are arresting them. Surely, its not going to make for handling things correctly.
    Last edited by metswon69; 05-27-2020 at 11:30 PM.

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