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View Poll Results: Can a player HURT their legacy by playing past their prime?

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  • Yes a lot

    1 11.11%
  • Yes a little

    2 22.22%
  • Not at all

    6 66.67%
  • Only Dwight Howard

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 31 to 45 of 156
  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    You made my point for me. Thanks


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    We have the same point, so np. Guess we just vary on what Melo actually ever did in the NBA

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I actually respectfully disagree here. In the modern era there have been several examples of NBA Finals that have monumental positive and negative impacts:

    Cavs over Warriors (Curry takes a hit / LeBron gets a massive boost)
    Rockets over Knicks (Ewing takes a hit / Hakeem gets a massive boost)
    Mavs over Cavs (LeBron takes a hit / Dirk gets a massive boost)

    I actually think Dirk gets full credit for that win. Maybe not enough people remember to bring up Jason Terry or the unconscious shooting by the Mavs but both star players take big hits for that outcome.
    Mavs over Heat big 3 but yeah.

  3. #33
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    It definitely hurts perception. It dilutes opinions of stars when they hang on.

    There's also a difference between "playing too long" and "having a short peak".

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...parisro01.html

    Robert Parish is an example of someone who played too long. His career numbers are weighted down because of it. But, when you read any all time list, people are usually smart enough to pull his peak out of it. In the moment it waters down what people think of you but looking back it usually doesn't matter.

    Dwight Howard, Tracy McGrady, etc. are examples of guys who just had shorter peaks relative to others. It's not as much as they "played too long" as it is they just weren't elite for long enough relative to their all time great peers. That hurts them in rankings and lasts.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  4. #34
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    Can a player HURT their legacy by playing past their prime?

    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    We have the same point, so np. Guess we just vary on what Melo actually ever did in the NBA
    You donít think he was a 10 times all star and 7 time all nba performer?


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    Last edited by ewing; 05-24-2020 at 01:28 PM.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    It definitely hurts perception. It dilutes opinions of stars when they hang on.

    There's also a difference between "playing too long" and "having a short peak".

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...parisro01.html

    Robert Parish is an example of someone who played too long. His career numbers are weighted down because of it. But, when you read any all time list, people are usually smart enough to pull his peak out of it. In the moment it waters down what people think of you but looking back it usually doesn't matter.

    Dwight Howard, Tracy McGrady, etc. are examples of guys who just had shorter peaks relative to others. It's not as much as they "played too long" as it is they just weren't elite for long enough relative to their all time great peers. That hurts them in rankings and lasts.
    Ya I think this post lays out a few issues that should be separated or made clear.

    When you say legacy do you mean overall how people will view them and so on? I don't think Legacy is just a player ranking based on ability/impact and so on with perception playing a bigger part. I rank Lebron off his ability/impact but his legacy includes many other factors and we see he has plenty haters for some of the decisions and so on he has made. This will affect the opinion many have on him but should not affect his all time ranking. Wizards are part of Jordan's legacy but no one is ranking or thinking about Jordan on Wizards when placing him at 1.

    Noting longevity compared to peak/prime also matters in this as if you are largely X player in your career but have a few killer seasons it might be seen different than someone with a few killer seasons but no rest of career. Legacy one might be considered more talented but unluckier due to injuries or whatever while all time ranking the one who was on the court longer and so on may get the nod ranking wise in the end.

    At the end of the day playing longer can affect your legacy/perception and so on but it should not be able to drop you down on an all time list based on ability/impact/overall career as the good parts aren't just washed away. 6 years of dominant play is 6 years of dominant play. More on top of that is only adding, if you suck to the point of being negative on the court the coach can always just bench you and then you just got the 6 years to look at anyways.

  6. #36
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    no. ur career is etched in stone and can't be retracted. every season only adds a chapter, you can never hurt your standing by adding to ur career

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    So I think Kobe and Jordan are the perfect examples of how the twilight seasons are irrelevant. The most popular debate on ESPN these days is LeBron vs. Jordan and I haven't heard anyone bring up the Wizards. Not even the people that want to say LeBron are like "well look at MJ when he was 40 years old, that should knock him down to #2."



    You are right but the Bonds argument is steroids not on the field performance.



    Perception and reality are different things though.



    I just use "prime" to mean a series of years where a player was at or near their highest level of play. "Peak" play is usually a smaller window and some players (Karl Malone and Kareem are the best examples) have incredibly long primes.

    What am I really curious about Scoots is how Howard's most recent seasons has actually changed his ranking for you? At what point was he at his highest? Around what number would you place him? Where has he fallen from there? You can estimate but I would love to hear actual numbers. I genuinely want to know.
    I think he peaked his 2nd from last year in Orlando as far as reputation. For me he was looking around around 16. Now, after proving to be a bad teammate and a big of a mental midget he's closer to 25. Had he maintained his standard from the first orlando years at a 2nd team then he would probably have maintained his place, but he conclusively proved that his game applied to a fairly limited situation.

  8. #38
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    I think when a player demonstrates that they have more limitations to their game as their situation changes they deservedly lose in reputation.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    You donít think he was a 10 times all star and 7 time all nba performer?


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    6 time all nba, never a 1st teamer and 8 of his 10 ASG appearances were via fan vote, the other 2 by commissioner selection, he's never been picked by the coaches.

    But basically what I'm asking you is what does any of that mean? Did it result in a title or MVP award? No.

    The guy is a scorer, that's all he's ever been. That hasn't changed on the Thunder, Rockets or Blazers. What changed, was his role. Dude can't adapt his game to today's NBA, which is fine. He was a good scorer in his prime and he can still get buckets, that's all he'll ever be known as.

  10. #40
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    Carmelo Anthony has a very distinguished career. He unfairly gets compared to LeBron because they were in the same draft and played the same position. Yes heís no LeBron, but he still one of the better players all-time.

  11. #41
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    Can a player HURT their legacy by playing past their prime?

    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    6 time all nba, never a 1st teamer and 8 of his 10 ASG appearances were via fan vote, the other 2 by commissioner selection, he's never been picked by the coaches.

    But basically what I'm asking you is what does any of that mean? Did it result in a title or MVP award? No.

    The guy is a scorer, that's all he's ever been. That hasn't changed on the Thunder, Rockets or Blazers. What changed, was his role. Dude can't adapt his game to today's NBA, which is fine. He was a good scorer in his prime and he can still get buckets, that's all he'll ever be known as.
    Do you need an MVP or title to be anything in the NBA? How many guys at one time do you think are normally in the league that finish with 10 asg appearances and 6 or 7 all NBA selections?


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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Carmelo Anthony has a very distinguished career. He unfairly gets compared to LeBron because they were in the same draft and played the same position. Yes heís no LeBron, but he still one of the better players all-time.
    I'd need more clarification on that last sentence but as is, I say meh.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Do you need an MVP or title to be anything in the NBA? How many guys at one time do you think are normally in the league that finish with 10 asg appearances and 6 or 7 all NBA selections?


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    Probably not very many lol but it very well could be the era.

    Look, I'm not saying dude is Anthony Bennett. But idk if he is as great as some of you think. Putting the ball in the bucket heck YEAH. Playing defense heck NO. Putting the team on his back greg jennings style heck NO. Setting his teammates up heck NO. Doing the dirty work heck NO. But you want that man to get you a contested turn around fade away 2 heck YEAH!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    I'd need more clarification on that last sentence but as is, I say meh.
    What do you mean? Like where does he rank all-time? I havenít made an official list out that far but Iím pretty certain heíd be Top 100 and possible closer to 50, but Iíd have to do a ranking.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Probably not very many lol but it very well could be the era.

    Look, I'm not saying dude is Anthony Bennett. But idk if he is as great as some of you think. Putting the ball in the bucket heck YEAH. Playing defense heck NO. Putting the team on his back greg jennings style heck NO. Setting his teammates up heck NO. Doing the dirty work heck NO. But you want that man to get you a contested turn around fade away 2 heck YEAH!
    Seems like you are a hater


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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