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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    The T-Wolves traded back from 3 to 5 and got Love while the Grizzles got Mayo. Celtics traded back from 1 to 3 and got Tatum while the Sixers got Fultz.

    Westbrook and Curry fit the criteria of players I like. Westbrook was an extremely athletic and lightning quick PG. Curry was an insanely productive college player and tremendous shooter.

    Both guys had clear elite traits that made them stars. But like you said, we donít know if a trade up was possible.

    LaMeloís passing alone wonít make him a star.
    Neither were viewed as high level/slam dunk prospects, especially Westbrook who was the third wheel behind Jrue Holiday and Darren Collison.

    Both trades were within the top 5 and thereís a reason for that. Most times, teams want to stay within that range. There are definite tiers to each draft. The Celtics wouldíve taken Tatum regardless.

    Look, you can find examples for almost anything. No one is positing that these outcomes are impossible or have never happened, just that itís less likely. Continuing to point out the outcomes that are least likely does nothing for your argument.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    My ideal spreadsheet Knicks starting 5 would be:

    Mitch
    Wood
    Hield
    CP3
    LaMelo

    I think everyone would agree that team would kick ***. And we would still have our 6th pick off the bench.
    My post clearly went over your head.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Neither were viewed as high level/slam dunk prospects, especially Westbrook who was the third wheel behind Jrue Holiday and Darren Collison.

    Both trades were within the top 5 and thereís a reason for that. Most times, teams want to stay within that range. There are definite tiers to each draft. The Celtics wouldíve taken Tatum regardless.

    Look, you can find examples for almost anything. No one is positing that these outcomes are impossible or have never happened, just that itís less likely. Continuing to point out the outcomes that are least likely does nothing for your argument.
    The point is that the Celtics liked Tatum better than Fultz, but didnít want to select him #1 because they could extract value in trading back while probably still being able to select Tatum.

    What the Knicks need more than resorting to desperate measures is to simply draft better, make smart trades, and get a little lucky as other teams have. Every star in the NBA isnít a #1 or Top 5 pick.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    My post clearly went over your head.
    I suppose it did, I donít understand your initial response to what I said.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    The point is that the Celtics liked Tatum better than Fultz, but didnít want to select him #1 because they could extract value in trading back while probably still being able to select Tatum.

    What the Knicks need more than resorting to desperate measures is to simply draft better, make smart trades, and get a little lucky as other teams have. Every star in the NBA isnít a #1 or Top 5 pick.
    The Knicks like Ball and wonít be able to get him if they donít move up. How is this a similar comparison to wanting a player that you know you can get later?!

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    RJ was the #3 overall pick. 19 year old Top 10 non-#1 picks to be productive in the NBA as rookies in the last decade:

    Doncic, Tatum, Jaren Jackson, Murray, Russell, Beal, and Drummond

    That was a difficult exercise because a lot of rookies are 20 (even if they spent 1 year in college).

    RJ showed no flashes of an all-star to me. Maybe a pretty good player years from now, but not an all-star. How many all-star wings come into the league with no shot and struggle near the rim as well?
    Werenít you comparing him to Harden before the season got stopped?


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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    I suppose it did, I donít understand your initial response to what I said.
    Analytics in basketball is not to a point where the whole story or predictions can be made simply because of stats. Baseball is the furthest along when it comes to analytics in sports and itís still not 100% perfect.

    You need context to tell the full story, but you rarely use it besides occasionally pointing out athletic traits of players you like.

    People donít get paid whatever they get paid to scout by looking at numbers. If teams could get by doing it your way, there would be no need for scouts.

  8. #158
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    When did RJ start struggling at the rim? Matter fact he was probably the 3rd best rookie at finishing at the rim... He was drafted exactly where he was supposed to and that's not a bad thing considering the talent drafted ahead of him. He is going to be very good.

  9. #159
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    LaMelo Ball definitely tops on the Knicks draft board

    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    The Knicks like Ball and wonít be able to get him if they donít move up. How is this a similar comparison to wanting a player that you know you can get later?!
    I didnít say those situations were similar. Also the the lottery hasnít even happened yet. Iím sure no Pelicans fan thought they were getting Zion and no Memphis fan thought they were getting Morant.

    LaMelo is the top PG on their draft board, but thatís probably true for most teams. That doesnít mean theyíll trade up for him or that they donít like anyone else. They seem to be linked to Cole recently as well.

  10. #160
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    LaMelo Ball definitely tops on the Knicks draft board

    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    When did RJ start struggling at the rim? Matter fact he was probably the 3rd best rookie at finishing at the rim... He was drafted exactly where he was supposed to and that's not a bad thing considering the talent drafted ahead of him. He is going to be very good.
    RJ shot 31% on all jumpers and 45% on layups.

    Both of those numbers are awful, rookie or not.

    For reference, Coby shot 35% on all jumpers and 49% on layups.

    Garland shot 39% on all jumpers and 45% on layups at 6í1Ē 175 lbs.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    When did RJ start struggling at the rim? Matter fact he was probably the 3rd best rookie at finishing at the rim... He was drafted exactly where he was supposed to and that's not a bad thing considering the talent drafted ahead of him. He is going to be very good.
    I would guess when ACC play started


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  12. #162
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    I like LaMelo but I don't see him as this elite talent. He wouldn't be the top pick in most drafts. I can see him ending up as a Ricky Rubio/Jason Williams level.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Iíd rather keep Mitch because he shows more of these ďflashesĒ than RJ does. LaMelo and Mitch could be ridiculously fun to watch. I think RJís talent is much more replaceable. Most players that are 7ft donít move the way Mitch does and heís a great rim protector.
    I get what he brings to the table, but I just think in terms of overall talent and skill RJ and LaMelo are better players. And this is even from someone who is approaching LaMelo cautiously.

  14. #164
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    I donít think LaMelo will be a superstar either really, more like an above average starting PG/borderline all star. Still that would be a huge upgrade for us.

    Iíve liked Haliburton all year and am still intrigued by him as well (as well as Hayes).

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett2010 View Post
    I get what he brings to the table, but I just think in terms of overall talent and skill RJ and LaMelo are better players. And this is even from someone who is approaching LaMelo cautiously.
    Non of us have seen this kid BUT he is supposed to be a big guy, that creates pace, and has excellent eyes. That is a very valuable foundation in todayís league. I donít know if he will be good, great, or a bust but I would be excited to find out


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