Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 12 of 23 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 338
  1. #166
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    12,117
    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Non of us have seen this kid BUT he is supposed to be a big guy, that creates pace, and has excellent eyes. That is a very valuable foundation in todayís league. I donít know if he will be good, great, or a bust but I would be excited to find out


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I would love to build around RJ, LaMelo, and either Cole or Hayes.

  2. #167
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    67,382
    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Analytics in basketball is not to a point where the whole story or predictions can be made simply because of stats. Baseball is the furthest along when it comes to analytics in sports and itís still not 100% perfect.

    You need context to tell the full story, but you rarely use it besides occasionally pointing out athletic traits of players you like.

    People donít get paid whatever they get paid to scout by looking at numbers. If teams could get by doing it your way, there would be no need for scouts.
    Iíll use my eyes first and foremost and make my final decision decision based on the stats. Who was the last all-star that had awful stats in college? Itís hard to discount actual performance from the equation.

    And what type of analytics are you talking about exactly?

  3. #168
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    5,501
    Weíre in the same spot weíve been this whole time in terms of evaluating these guys. Itís just tough to tell who actually translates between Cole/Hali/Hayes. LaMelo feels like the surest bet but I wouldnít be surprised either if any of those three, or Lewis or Malodeon etc end up better than him even. This is a particularly tricky draft.

  4. #169
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    15,603
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Iíll use my eyes first and foremost and make my final decision decision based on the stats. Who was the last all-star that had awful stats in college? Itís hard to discount actual performance from the equation.

    And what type of analytics are you talking about exactly?
    Who are you talking about in terms of awful college stats? Also, you literally argue for Reddish all the time and he is statistically the worst player ever drafted in the top 10 or lottery, so Iím not understanding your point and donít know who this is in reference to. To entertain your question though, Donovan Mitchell wasnít that great in college. Neither was Jaylen Brown who most assume will make at least one All Star team before his career is over.

    Performance absolutely matters...never said it didnít. This was about comparing Herro to RJ. Herro is a better shooter, but what else? What does Herro look like on a bad team? What does Herro look like if he were in the same position as RJ in terms of role? Thatís what I mean about context. Instead you look at his better three point shooting numbers and think that theyíre on the same level as prospects.

    Iím not talking about one stat in particular, but you literally look at numbers and then try to argue that someone like FVV is as good or better than Jrue Holiday. You do that often as if looking at numbers tells the whole story. Nothing about Holiday being an All Star in his second season, nothing about his injuries or taking time off to spend with his wife when she was having surgery...just plucking a season of your liking with no context to try to prove a point.
    Last edited by smood999; 05-28-2020 at 05:53 PM.

  5. #170
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,485
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Iíll use my eyes first and foremost and make my final decision decision based on the stats. Who was the last all-star that had awful stats in college? Itís hard to discount actual performance from the equation.

    And what type of analytics are you talking about exactly?
    Donovan Mitchell immediately comes to mind.

    Could probably also throw in Kawhi Leonard, Pascal Siakam, Russell Westbrook, Jimmy Butler, Trae Young to some extent. Giannis if you want to open it up beyond college and include International play.

  6. #171
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    15,603
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Donovan Mitchell immediately comes to mind.

    Could probably also throw in Kawhi Leonard, Pascal Siakam, Russell Westbrook, Jimmy Butler, Trae Young to some extent. Giannis if you want to open it up beyond college and include International play.
    Forgot about Westbrook. He absolutely fits the not good in college category.

  7. #172
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Staten island Ny
    Posts
    29,844
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    KP and RJ shouldnít be in the same sentence as far as value goes.

    Iíd rather give up RJ for LaMelo than trade any picks.
    what.......... thatís the dumbest thing Iíve seen. The mavs picks are late teens to late 20s. Thatís a joke.
    Spurs Sim league
    2 time Champion 653-331

  8. #173
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Staten island Ny
    Posts
    29,844
    Itís wild how many people have thrown RJ away after his rookie season. The team is the worst shooting team kn the league. They are awful. The Knicks played three bigs a majority of the season. RJ was playing SG next to 4 guys that couldnít shoot. Itís a joke to think he was going to succeed. He showed plenty of flashes, his efficiency was pretty bad sure but his ability to get to the rim and finish when there was 0 room to Create anything was pretty good. If they replace Randle with a guy that shoot and add another G that can shoot to go around Lamelo RJ and Mitch youíll see RJs value.
    Spurs Sim league
    2 time Champion 653-331

  9. #174
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Staten island Ny
    Posts
    29,844
    Not only could nobody shoot nobody was even a threat to shoot
    Spurs Sim league
    2 time Champion 653-331

  10. #175
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    67,382

    LaMelo Ball definitely tops on the Knicks draft board

    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Who are you talking about in terms of awful college stats? Also, you literally argue for Reddish all the time and he is statistically the worst player ever drafted in the top 10 or lottery, so Iím not understanding your point and donít know who this is in reference to. To entertain your question though, Donovan Mitchell wasnít that great in college. Neither was Jaylen Brown who most assume will make at least one All Star team before his career is over.

    Performance absolutely matters...never said it didnít. This was about comparing Herro to RJ. Herro is a better shooter, but what else? What does Herro look like on a bad team? What does Herro look like if he were in the same position as RJ in terms of role? Thatís what I mean about context. Instead you look at his better three point shooting numbers and think that theyíre on the same level as prospects.

    Iím not talking about one stat in particular, but you literally look at numbers and then try to argue that someone like FVV is as good or better than Jrue Holiday. You do that often as if looking at numbers tells the whole story. Nothing about Holiday being an All Star in his second season, nothing about his injuries or taking time off to spend with his wife when she was having surgery...just plucking a season of your liking with no context to try to prove a point.
    Wasnít really targeted at anyone specifically, was just asking a question. But I would say someone like Cole falls in that category. Reddish does too, which is why Iím interested to see how he develops.

    I disagree on Mitchell. He was a volume 3PT shooter with good defense and very athletic with long arms. Jaylen Brown is a good example though. He couldnít shoot in college and he improved dramatically in the NBA. But thatís why the eye test is important too. Anthony Edwards is very similar to Jaylen Brown IMO, but with less defensive impact.

    I never said Herro over RJ outright, but that the collection of Reddish and Herro could potentially provide more long term value. Reddish in particular is a guy who has more theoretical upside than RJ, but his awful college performance pushed him down.

    Iím not saying what the Knicks did was right or wrong in picking RJ, but I like to evaluate all options and scenarios that could be in play. The draft is still a crapshoot even if the players at the top usually pan out the most. I think thereís strength in numbers to a degree. You may disagree with that, fine.

    As for your last point, numbers in the NBA are a different story than college. Thereís no projection at play here. The numbers are what they are, and if I see that one player is better in all the numbers I believe matter the most, then Iím probably gonna think that player is better without even watching them play.

    When I was comparing those two, I was comparing them mostly for salary-driven discussion. Jrue probably had the least impressive All-Star season in history btw, so that doesnít really mean anything.

  11. #176
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    67,382
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Donovan Mitchell immediately comes to mind.

    Could probably also throw in Kawhi Leonard, Pascal Siakam, Russell Westbrook, Jimmy Butler, Trae Young to some extent. Giannis if you want to open it up beyond college and include International play.
    Disagree on Mitchell as I stated above.

    Kawhi had elite defense and size though. He was also a really good finisher with a decent FT%. But he wasnít picked super high or anything, same thing with Giannis. The latter grew a couple more inches and gained 50 pounds since being drafted. Thatís incredible work ethic. Siakam actually averaged 20 and 11 in his last season, but in a weak conference.

    Westbrook was a freak athlete who put up decent numbers, thatís when you trust the talent and hope for the best. Butler had good numbers, but was a senior so he wasnít highly regarded.

    Traeís numbers and production were fantastic. I definitely like to watch players as much as I can and I use numbers to support my views. Sometimes Iíll be right, sometimes Iíll be wrong. I can live with that.

  12. #177
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    67,382

    LaMelo Ball definitely tops on the Knicks draft board

    Quote Originally Posted by xxplayerxx23 View Post
    what.......... thatís the dumbest thing Iíve seen. The mavs picks are late teens to late 20s. Thatís a joke.
    What I meant was that I would prefer to keep our lottery pick and the rest of our picks over RJ because I think itís easier to build a team through LaMelo and Mitch with 3 shooters. Itís not gonna happen though, which is okay. Iíd just rather not trade up for LaMelo unless the deal is lopsided in our favor.

  13. #178
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,485
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Disagree on Mitchell as I stated above.

    Kawhi had elite defense and size though. He was also a really good finisher with a decent FT%. But he wasnít picked super high or anything, same thing with Giannis. The latter grew a couple more inches and gained 50 pounds since being drafted. Thatís incredible work ethic. Siakam actually averaged 20 and 11 in his last season, but in a weak conference.

    Westbrook was a freak athlete who put up decent numbers, thatís when you trust the talent and hope for the best. Butler had good numbers, but was a senior so he wasnít highly regarded.

    Traeís numbers and production were fantastic. I definitely like to watch players as much as I can and I use numbers to support my views. Sometimes Iíll be right, sometimes Iíll be wrong. I can live with that.
    The point is, none of those guys blew anyone away with their college statistics.

    Youíre essentially proving mine and Smoodís point that there are other reasons why players are valued scouting-wise other than statistics. Kawhi and Giannisí measurables. Westbrookís freak athleticism.

    Even looking at Trae, for most of the year his numbers were downright bad in college. He ended up shooting 42% from the field on the season - worse than RJ at Duke. Yet nobody questioned Atlanta taking him at 5.

  14. #179
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,485
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Disagree on Mitchell as I stated above.

    Kawhi had elite defense and size though. He was also a really good finisher with a decent FT%. But he wasnít picked super high or anything, same thing with Giannis. The latter grew a couple more inches and gained 50 pounds since being drafted. Thatís incredible work ethic. Siakam actually averaged 20 and 11 in his last season, but in a weak conference.

    Westbrook was a freak athlete who put up decent numbers, thatís when you trust the talent and hope for the best. Butler had good numbers, but was a senior so he wasnít highly regarded.

    Traeís numbers and production were fantastic. I definitely like to watch players as much as I can and I use numbers to support my views. Sometimes Iíll be right, sometimes Iíll be wrong. I can live with that.
    Also Iím not really sure what youíre talking about with Donovan Mitchell. As a sophomore, he shot 40% from the field and 35% from 3. His TS% and eFG% was worse than RJís as a freshman. If you add in Donovanís freshman year it gets worse, as he was a much worse three point shooter.

  15. #180
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Staten island Ny
    Posts
    29,844
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    What I meant was that I would prefer to keep our lottery pick and the rest of our picks over RJ because I think itís easier to build a team through LaMelo and Mitch with 3 shooters. Itís not gonna happen though, which is okay. Iíd just rather not trade up for LaMelo unless the deal is lopsided in our favor.
    Why though? RJ could easily become a shooter. Itís not like his form is broke or anything. I also think you squeeze a knockdown shooter at the 2 and run RJ at the 3 thatís a perfect look. Maybe Knox becomes our stretch 4 eventually. Iím still hopeful on Knox. Lamelo RJ Mitch and hope Knox becomes a good 2 way guy is the best case imo. Iím not against the other prospects at all I like Hayes, Lewis, hali and Devi I just trust Lamelo more and want to have a good PG prospect for once. I also havenít given up on frank as a player but I think him as a Franchise PG is over.
    Spurs Sim league
    2 time Champion 653-331

Page 12 of 23 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •