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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    An efficient shot maker who checks the coach's defensive boxes is likely +20M player. What assets are you sending out to acquire that guy - if it's not through FA?

    Udoka said it best: the White trade was about consolidating Richardson and Schroder into one player (i.e., DW better offensive player than JR [allegedly], better defensively than DS - pare down lineup and make rotations easier). Shooting was always part of the trade consideration.
    Yes DW is 100% a better defensive player than DS

    DW and JR have insignificant differences as far as shooting efficiency. DW started out awful when he first arrived. Got better as he acclimated but still not great - serviceable at least.

    3 point shooting has been an issue with this team since last offseason. Iíve posted about it numerous times. Grant shooting great helped immensely but we still need another shooter on the wing. (White is not a wing)

    Using the $17m TPE to bring in that shooter would be the most obvious choice.

    Guys I would consider at that range of money
    Gary Trent Jr
    Marcus Morris
    Terrence Ross
    DFS
    TJ Warren
    Larry Nance Jr
    Christian Wood
    Malik Beasley

    Thatís just off the top of my head. Or you move for a guy with the TPE and add Theis to go up another tier on money. Can be done.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Yes DW is 100% a better defensive player than DS

    DW and JR have insignificant differences as far as shooting efficiency. DW started out awful when he first arrived. Got better as he acclimated but still not great - serviceable at least.

    3 point shooting has been an issue with this team since last offseason. Iíve posted about it numerous times. Grant shooting great helped immensely but we still need another shooter on the wing. (White is not a wing)

    Using the $17m TPE to bring in that shooter would be the most obvious choice.

    Guys I would consider at that range of money
    Gary Trent Jr
    Marcus Morris
    Terrence Ross
    DFS
    TJ Warren
    Larry Nance Jr
    Christian Wood
    Malik Beasley

    Thatís just off the top of my head. Or you move for a guy with the TPE and add Theis to go up another tier on money. Can be done.
    TPE's are just fillers to make money work on Celtics end. I'm asking about outgoing assets used to make these attractive deals to opponents.

    Like Gary Trent Junior: locked in for 3 more seasons @ age 23 w/ a conference rival. Christian Wood another one. How do these trades make sense for opposing teams? What assets are Celtics sending out?

    To me, when you see how many questions there are on Celtics roster (shooting depth + front court uncertainty) + criteria of Ime's system (any shooter acquired will have to play defense - which = +20M player) + how little tradeable assets Celtics have. It A) shatters the idea that this team has a 5-7 year window, B) puts a spotlight on overpaying for relatively inconsequential players like White.
    Last edited by elements1985; 06-22-2022 at 12:48 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    TPE's are just fillers to make money work on Celtics end. I'm asking about outgoing assets used to make these attractive deals to opponents.

    Like Gary Trent Junior: locked in for 3 more seasons @ age 23 w/ a conference rival. Christian Wood another one. How do these trades make sense for opposing teams? What assets are Celtics sending out?

    To me, when you see how many questions there are on Celtics roster (shooting depth + front court uncertainty) + criteria of Ime's system (any shooter acquired will have to play defense - which = +20M player) + how little tradeable assets Celtics have. It A) shatters the idea that this team has a 5-7 year window, B) puts a spotlight on overpaying for relatively inconsequential players like White.
    Again you overvalue players. Your view of trades ignores reality and any sense of creativity. Christian Woods was literally just traded for a pile of trash. Trades in the NBA are less about the players involves and more about contracts, roster construction and future trade packages.

    Your inability to realize lopsided trades happen literally all the time in the NBA. There are plenty of players making under $20m that qualify. And any player in the NBA is available save for a few untouchables.

    Draft picks are near worthless to contending teams. Iíll trade as many as it takes to build the roster appropriately. We have a handful of guys available as contract fillers that arenít in our top 7 rotation. Other teams can be added to trade to make it work as well. Itís not nearly as impossible as you make it out to be

    City of Champions

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    TPE's are just fillers to make money work on Celtics end. I'm asking about outgoing assets used to make these attractive deals to opponents.

    Like Gary Trent Junior: locked in for 3 more seasons @ age 23 w/ a conference rival. Christian Wood another one. How do these trades make sense for opposing teams? What assets are Celtics sending out?

    To me, when you see how many questions there are on Celtics roster (shooting depth + front court uncertainty) + criteria of Ime's system (any shooter acquired will have to play defense - which = +20M player) + how little tradeable assets Celtics have. It A) shatters the idea that this team has a 5-7 year window, B) puts a spotlight on overpaying for the relatively inconsequential players like White.
    Jeremi Grant traded for a 2025 first rounder into a TPE.

    But clearly not possible according to Elements

    City of Champions

  5. #20
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    Christian Wood

    Traded for
    First round pick
    Boban
    Marquiss Chriss
    Trey Burke
    Sterling Brown

    Impossible to get these players according to Elements

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Again you overvalue players. Your view of trades ignores reality and any sense of creativity. Christian Woods was literally just traded for a pile of trash. Trades in the NBA are less about the players involves and more about contracts, roster construction and future trade packages.

    Your inability to realize lopsided trades happen literally all the time in the NBA. There are plenty of players making under $20m that qualify. And any player in the NBA is available save for a few untouchables.

    Draft picks are near worthless to contending teams. Iíll trade as many as it takes to build the roster appropriately. We have a handful of guys available as contract fillers that arenít in our top 7 rotation. Other teams can be added to trade to make it work as well. Itís not nearly as impossible as you make it out to be
    I feel really good that we're planning on 'hope' as a strategy to build around 2 young players. That's just awesome man.

    You're not hearing me out:
    The Celtics set the bar high on rotation players (defense + shooting - from wings/guards). Either you keep the rotations short and burn out the core like this year's team; or do a controlled selloff with either Rob, Al or Smart (which leads to a worse defensive team).

    Or in your case, package Sam Hauser with Malik Fitts plus 2026 2nd -- and just keep playing with NBA Trade Machine until the deal works.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Jeremi Grant traded for a 2025 first rounder into a TPE.

    But clearly not possible according to Elements
    More like Detroit turned a 6th-7th man on a really good team into a lotto pick.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    More like Detroit turned a 6th-7th man on a really good team into a lotto pick.
    Thatís exactly the type of player weíre talking about - role players. That you state canít be had. Yet you canít refute the real world cases that line up exactly with what I have stated. Laughable man. Really is

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    I feel really good that we're planning on 'hope' as a strategy to build around 2 young players. That's just awesome man.

    You're not hearing me out:
    The Celtics set the bar high on rotation players (defense + shooting - from wings/guards). Either you keep the rotations short and burn out the core like this year's team; or do a controlled selloff with either Rob, Al or Smart (which leads to a worse defensive team).

    Or in your case, package Sam Hauser with Malik Fitts plus 2026 2nd -- and just keep playing with NBA Trade Machine until the deal works.
    Are the GM of the Thunder? Your ideology is exactly what happened in OKC that led to them losing 3 HOF players on the roster and not winning a title

    But hey! Get those draft picks boi!!!.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Thatís exactly the type of player weíre talking about - role players. That you state canít be had. Yet you canít refute the real world cases that line up exactly with what I have stated. Laughable man. Really is
    The deal was Grant for TPE + top 4 protected 1st in 2025. Pistons wagering that Portland will suck in 3 years - with Grant and/or Lilliard gone. It's not even remotely comparable/applicable to Celtics.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    But hey! Get those draft picks boi!!!.
    Draft picks don't matter ... then cites a TPE deal in which draft pick is main feature.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    The deal was Grant for TPE + top 4 protected 1st in 2025. Pistons wagering that Portland will suck in 3 years - with Grant and/or Lilliard gone. It's not even remotely comparable/applicable to Celtics.
    Itís a MIL pick, not PORís own. MIL originally traded that pick to NO in the Holiday trade and NO sent it to POR in the McCollum trade.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    I feel really good that we're planning on 'hope' as a strategy to build around 2 young players. That's just awesome man.

    You're not hearing me out:
    The Celtics set the bar high on rotation players (defense + shooting - from wings/guards). Either you keep the rotations short and burn out the core like this year's team; or do a controlled selloff with either Rob, Al or Smart (which leads to a worse defensive team).

    Or in your case, package Sam Hauser with Malik Fitts plus 2026 2nd -- and just keep playing with NBA Trade Machine until the deal works.
    Iím confused what you mean by this post. I think I follow though. Are you saying that Ime is too strict to let anyone who isnít well rounded play? So our only way to improve offensively is by trading key defensive pieces because thatís the only way to get enough value to get someone Ime values enough to play? Since guys who can be had for scraps wonít match his standards to actually play?

    If thatís the case, I wouldnít worry. I think he used a short rotation because we only had 9 NBA caliber players last year. Nesmith is a total bust and sucks at everything. Hauser is nothing right now. Stauskas/Fitts/Morgan/Kornet weíre bums we signed to fill out the roster to pro rated minimum deals and duck the tax.

    This year weíll be a tax team so you donít have to pinch Pennieís like that to duck it. Weíll get some legit depth.

    Pritchard is too small to play in the playoffs and Theis just isnít good enough to justify playing if the other 3 better bigs were healthy. Between TPE and MLE Iím confident we can get some shooters who are good enough to play. Guys like Alec Burks, Otto Porter Jr., Gary Harris, etc. could be had. We just need a few more guys (one wing, one forward) to give you 15 minutes a night to space the floor.

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