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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Are you saying LeBron's MVPs are not as valuable as Magic's MVPs?
    They are different. If you assume that Lebron's hold less value due to less top competition, that's on you to decide. I didn't say none of that so if that is the first thing you thought of, maybe subconsciously that's what you believe.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOboston View Post
    I love the pettiness. Wish the NBA had more players with that mentality. Too much banana boat mentality in the NBA today.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My issue with his pettiness towards LeBron is it's based on something he did towards LeBron as a rookie.

  3. #33
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    Example 23,304,127 why we should never care what players view as rankings or bball knowledge. Their biases are even worse than fans.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Example 23,304,127 why we should never care what players view as rankings or bball knowledge. Their biases are even worse than fans.
    I don't think you should discount their knowledge. You just have to recognize obvious bias.

    Also gotta understand that people say things for a reaction. A few years ago Pierce said Lebron was a top 5 player of all time. But it was't this big segment of its own context where he thought about what to say to get a reaction.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    What a terrible post...

    2007, he wasn't even supposed to have reached the Finals and many believe it's one of the weakest Finals team to reach it. I guess he should have lost to the Pistons so he wouldn't have the Finals loss on his record.

    2011 is the Finals that he truly lost while being embarrassed.

    2017, you must be kidding me. How did he have the 'horses' to beat KD, Curry, Klay, and Draymond? And how did KD outplay him when LeBron averaged a 34 point triple double?

    'Jordan was never outplayed.'

    Yeah, because Jordan never had to face a player better than KD. KD outranks, already, any player Jordan has faced on his way to the Finals minus Magic (who was on his way to retirement and didn't have KAJ on his team). Jordan also never faced a team that was actually on the level of the Spurs or the Warriors.. Name me ONE team he beat that was on that level. None.
    these teams got to that level on his LeBron's watch. but MJ beat the bad boys, and showtime Lakers. that's on their level. Shaq is another guy ahead of Durant that MJ took out in the playoffs(as well as Magic Johnson like you said). i think some teams from the 90s would have beat the Spurs and Warriors. the 91 lakers, 91 Pistons(bulls made them both look bad, but they were still young, and the past 2 champions, they were better than they looked, that bulls team was just GODLY) Jazz (superteam killers), 92 knicks, Shaq/Penny Magic, 98 Pacers. any of them have a great shot against them

    LeBron abslutely had the horses in 2017 (and 2014). if he' supposed to be the GOAT, lol. LeBron, Kyrie, Love .. vs Durant, Curry, Klay. and about equal depth. keep in mind Kyrie even outscored Curry in that finals(and the 2016 finals, he's so underrated it's insane, he was outstanding). his finals numbers are awesome. but LeBron allowed Durant to outscore him 35-2 ppg to 33.6 ppg. and being a all time great he needed to hold Durant's scoring down bellow or right at his his season avg of 25 ppg. had he even held him to 27ppg the Cavs probably win, but Lebron got torched, and payed for it with another finals loss

    i give him the pass in 2007(but he played really really bad, no excuse for his terrible play, but the loss is ok), 2015, and 2018. he was kind of alone in those 3 years.(well 2018 he had love avg 19 ppg and 11 rb, but they had 3 scorers to his 2 and that made the difference) if he was the 2nd best ever he'd be 6-3 right now. that's why i have him 6th right now, and will move ahead of Shaq when he wins another
    Last edited by hidalgo; 05-23-2020 at 12:19 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hidalgo View Post
    these teams got to that level on his LeBron's watch. but MJ beat the bad boys, and showtime Lakers. that's on their level. Shaq is another guy ahead of Durant that MJ took out in the playoffs(as well as Magic Johnson like you said). i think some teams from the 90s would have beat the Spurs and Warriors. the 91 lakers, 91 Pistons(bulls made them both look bad, but they were still young, and the past 2 champions, they were better than they looked, that bulls team was just GODLY) Jazz (superteam killers), 92 knicks, Shaq/Penny Magic, 98 Pacers. any of them have a great shot against them

    LeBron abslutely had the horses in 2017 (and 2014). if he' supposed to be the GOAT, lol. LeBron, Kyrie, Love .. vs Durant, Curry, Klay. and about equal depth. keep in mind Kyrie even outscored Curry in that finals(and the 2016 finals, he's so underrated it's insane, he was outstanding). his finals numbers are awesome. but LeBron allowed Durant to outscore him 35-2 ppg to 33.6 ppg. and being a all time great he needed to hold Durant's scoring down bellow or right at his his season avg of 25 ppg. had he even held him to 27ppg the Cavs probably win, but Lebron got torched, and payed for it with another finals loss

    i give him the pass in 2007(but he played really really bad, no excuse for his terrible play, but the loss is ok), 2015, and 2018. he was kind of alone in those 3 years.(well 2018 he had love avg 19 ppg and 11 rb, but they had 3 scorers to his 2 and that made the difference) if he was the 2nd best ever he'd be 6-3 right now. that's why i have him 6th right now, and will move ahead of Shaq when he wins another
    Lebron didnt have the horses in 2017 or 2014. Are you kidding me?

    No team in history could be the warriors. Its impossible.

    Also:

    The heat fell apart while LeBron played as the MVP in every single series he was in aside from the Mavs one. He was bar none the best player of each series and raised the level of everyone around him to an unprecedented level.

    No other player in history would have beaten the 2016 warriors and no other player in history would have brought the 2015 warriors to 6 games with dellavedova, mozgov, etc.

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  7. #37
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    I've always admired Pearce's trolling.
    HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW?



    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I don't think you should discount their knowledge. You just have to recognize obvious bias.

    Also gotta understand that people say things for a reaction. A few years ago Pierce said Lebron was a top 5 player of all time. But it was't this big segment of its own context where he thought about what to say to get a reaction.
    No we shouldn't discount their knowledge. But hearing that Perkins story and how manufactured the beef with LeBron is makes me hate PP even more.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Lebron didnt have the horses in 2017 or 2014. Are you kidding me?

    No team in history could be the warriors. Its impossible.

    Also:

    The heat fell apart while LeBron played as the MVP in every single series he was in aside from the Mavs one. He was bar none the best player of each series and raised the level of everyone around him to an unprecedented level.

    No other player in history would have beaten the 2016 warriors and no other player in history would have brought the 2015 warriors to 6 games with dellavedova, mozgov, etc.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    the 2015-16 warriors are overrated. they only had 2 scorers, Curry and Klay. Draymond isn't much of a star in my opinion. Cavs would have beat them in 2015 as well if Kyrie played the whole series(he played game 1) and Love played. and they choked away their 2016 title. then went and lost to the Raptors last year(those Raptors would have beat the 2016 team as well, they were pretty much the same team). they were very VERY beatable without Durant. and with Durant they were pushed 7 games by the Rockets with Harden, and an injured Chris Paul who missed the last 2 games(they probably win one of those with him, and finish off the Durant warriors) and that rockets team wasn't that great. so they were beatable with Durant, but LeBron allowed too many points from Durant, and didn't take over the end of games like MJ

    2011, 2014, and 2017 he should have won

    2007, 2015, and 2018 can be forgiven
    Last edited by hidalgo; 05-23-2020 at 12:10 PM.

  10. #40
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    So now the narrative is the Warriors with KD weren’t even that good?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hidalgo View Post
    these teams got to that level on his LeBron's watch. but MJ beat the bad boys, and showtime Lakers. that's on their level. Shaq is another guy ahead of Durant that MJ took out in the playoffs(as well as Magic Johnson like you said). i think some teams from the 90s would have beat the Spurs and Warriors. the 91 lakers, 91 Pistons(bulls made them both look bad, but they were still young, and the past 2 champions, they were better than they looked, that bulls team was just GODLY) Jazz (superteam killers), 92 knicks, Shaq/Penny Magic, 98 Pacers. any of them have a great shot against them

    LeBron abslutely had the horses in 2017 (and 2014). if he' supposed to be the GOAT, lol. LeBron, Kyrie, Love .. vs Durant, Curry, Klay. and about equal depth. keep in mind Kyrie even outscored Curry in that finals(and the 2016 finals, he's so underrated it's insane, he was outstanding). his finals numbers are awesome. but LeBron allowed Durant to outscore him 35-2 ppg to 33.6 ppg. and being a all time great he needed to hold Durant's scoring down bellow or right at his his season avg of 25 ppg. had he even held him to 27ppg the Cavs probably win, but Lebron got torched, and payed for it with another finals loss

    i give him the pass in 2007(but he played really really bad, no excuse for his terrible play, but the loss is ok), 2015, and 2018. he was kind of alone in those 3 years.(well 2018 he had love avg 19 ppg and 11 rb, but they had 3 scorers to his 2 and that made the difference) if he was the 2nd best ever he'd be 6-3 right now. that's why i have him 6th right now, and will move ahead of Shaq when he wins another
    Another low IQ 'fan' trying to sell some stuff no one wants. MJ didn't beat the Showtime Lakers. KAJ retired and Vlade Divac replaced KAJ. MJ didn't take out prime Shaq. Orlando Shaq was a baby who was more athletic but didn't have the body to absolutely maul players, yet. Now you're telling me the 98 Pacers would beat the KD Warriors? Bro, just stop. you are a clown.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So now the narrative is the Warriors with KD weren’t even that good?
    This dude is trying to tell me Rik Smits and Reggie Miller could have beaten KD's Warriors. You're telling me you can't ban him for saying that?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    They are different. If you assume that Lebron's hold less value due to less top competition, that's on you to decide. I didn't say none of that so if that is the first thing you thought of, maybe subconsciously that's what you believe.
    I'm just trying to clarify your point because I feel like you are being vague and I want to make sure I know what you are saying.

    In your first post that I quoted you said that the biggest flaw is that they weren't competing against each other for those MVPs. In your next post you are saying that the MVPs are "different." I don't think I'm taking too big of a leap to assume that you mean some are not as valuable. Otherwise, if they are equally valuably, then we can just compare raw MVPs and get a lot of out it. So basically I'm just trying to get you to what you really think. I feel like you want to say something like "Magic's MVPs are more impressive because Bird / Kareem / Erving" were in the league and "LeBron's MVPs are less impressive he had less competition." I disagree with that. But if I'm wrong stating your opinion then I apologize.


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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Lebron didnt have the horses in 2017 or 2014. Are you kidding me?

    No team in history could be the warriors. Its impossible.

    Also:

    The heat fell apart while LeBron played as the MVP in every single series he was in aside from the Mavs one. He was bar none the best player of each series and raised the level of everyone around him to an unprecedented level.

    No other player in history would have beaten the 2016 warriors and no other player in history would have brought the 2015 warriors to 6 games with dellavedova, mozgov, etc.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Serious question:

    Do you really believe the Mavs series should not take way from his legacy? If so then I'm assuming you would put a lot of stock in regular season performances as well. Do you rank Karl Malone ahead of Dirk?

    Do you believe losing 4-2 to the Warriors in the finals should enhance his legacy?


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I'm just trying to clarify your point because I feel like you are being vague and I want to make sure I know what you are saying.

    In your first post that I quoted you said that the biggest flaw is that they weren't competing against each other for those MVPs. In your next post you are saying that the MVPs are "different." I don't think I'm taking too big of a leap to assume that you mean some are not as valuable. Otherwise, if they are equally valuably, then we can just compare raw MVPs and get a lot of out it. So basically I'm just trying to get you to what you really think. I feel like you want to say something like "Magic's MVPs are more impressive because Bird / Kareem / Erving" were in the league and "LeBron's MVPs are less impressive he had less competition." I disagree with that. But if I'm wrong stating your opinion then I apologize.
    You're getting there.

    But how can you disagree with that? How can MVP awards be equal when different seasons have different situations and different competition?

    How can MVP awards be equal when the way they are handed has changed?
    Until 1980, only NBA players voted and it was a peer acknowledgement. From there on, it's been guys from the media.

    Do you think it's been the same guys from 1980 to 2020? Hell no, these guys change, their biases change, their priorities change, their methodology is different and you cannot compare how a panel voted in 1985 with 1995 or 2005 or 2015.
    They are completely different and they are merely a reflection of how biased or unbiased a panel is. Guys like Charles Barkley and Karl Malone would stand no chance if the panel was strictly voting on the best player of the season, which was always Michael Jordan. But Jordan had won twice in a row already, and an earlier one, so giving him a 4th would make the rest of the guys look bad - which is something that people still say to this day as they refuse to accept that MJ had top talent to compete against because he kept winning - then he won again and they didn't give him a back to back one, so they handed it to Karl Malone. Jordan was the real MVP but since it's become a media thing, they gave it to someone else. Also gives something to talk about until Playoffs start and it always felt nice to the media to piss Michael Jordan off for brief moments before sucking on his dick later on.

    I'm not questioning whether or not this panel is based on knowledgable people or not. The whole concept is that an MVP award is not given in the same way every year. That should eliminate it from a discussion in a way, but surely if someone keeps getting these he's worth of note, but even so you cannot really say much about it as it's a peer comparison and not something that you can compare with all time standards.

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