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  1. #1
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    2 trade packages Knicks could use to land Thunder PG Chris Paul-Ian Begley

    Not much else to discuss in Knick land besides the over redundant draft posts, so since this was a recent article on trading for CP3 figured something to post about:




    2 trade packages Knicks could use to land Thunder PG Chris Paul

    A look at which players the Knicks would deal and cap ramifications

    By Ian Begley | 8:49AM





    Ian Begley, SNY.tv | Twitter |

    If you're looking ahead to free agency for the Knicks, the first question to ask is: Will New York trade for Chris Paul?

    As noted last month, some people with the Knicks believe Paul would provide strong leadership for their young players and help jump-start the winning culture that New York wants to establish under president Leon Rose.

    It's unclear, at this point, if the Knicks will aggressively pursue a Paul trade, or if Oklahoma City is willing to move him.



    Paul, who turns 35 next month, averaged 17.7 points, 6.8 assists and 4.9 rebounds per game last season. He helped the Thunder far exceed preseason expectations (OKC was in fifth place in the Western Conference when the season was suspended.) Paul is also under contract for the next two seasons for a total of $85 million (he has a player option in '21-'22).

    So, depending on the timing of the deal, a trade for Paul would eat up nearly all of the Knicks' cap space this summer. He'd also take up nearly 35 percent of the projected cap for 2021-22. The cap, of course, may decrease starting this summer due to the China imbroglio and the impact of coronavirus. If the cap decreases, Paul's contract would take up an even larger portion of the Knicks' available money.

    Based on current cap projections, there are scenarios where the Knicks could trade for Paul and have some remaining money to spend on free agents this summer.

    With the help of cap expert Albert Nahmad, we explore a few CP3-to-NYK trade scenarios below, along with a look at the cap ramifications of each move.

    SCENARIO 1: Knicks trade Reggie Bullock and Frank Ntilikina for Paul

    CAP RAMIFICATIONS: In this scenario, we're assuming the cap is $115 million (that's the current projection, but, as noted above, it's subject to change). We're also assuming the Knicks absorb Paul into cap space.

    To do that, they'd decline Bobby Portis' team option ($15.8M) and renounce Moe Harkless' Bird rights ($16.5M cap hold). They'd also waive/stretch Taj Gibson ($9.5M), Elfrid Payton ($8M, with $1M guaranteed) and Wayne Ellington ($8M, with $1M guaranteed). In this scenario, they'd also keep Reggie Bullock beyond June 28, the date by which his 2020-21 salary of $4.2 million becomes fully guaranteed.

    This trade would leave the Knicks with Dennis Smith Jr., Julius Randle, R.J. Barrett, Kevin Knox, Allonzo Trier, Mitchell Robinson, Damyean Dotson, Paul and Iggy Brazdeikis on the roster. If you include salaries for their two first-round picks (roughly $8 million in combined salary for 2020-21), they would have roughly $107 million in committed salary and $8 million in cap space. They would also have the room mid-level exception (projected at $5 million), and veteran's minimum exceptions (which are 1-2 year deals at the minimum salary).

    But this trade would see the Knicks give up their Bird rights to Harkless, a $4 million trade exception, the non-tax payer mid-level exception (projected at $9.8 million) and bi-annual exception ($3.8 million), or the tax-payer mid-level exception ($6 million).

    New York could instead include Ellington, Gibson and Payton in a Paul trade and keep the above exceptions. But Oklahoma City would have to guarantee all three players' 2020-21 salaries in the trade.

    Either scenario depends, of course, on how willing -- if at all -- Oklahoma City is trying to get Paul off its books. If the Thunder are desperate to get Paul out to clear money for the summer of 2021 or 2022, then maybe they'd be willing to accept less than the package described above.

    One executive (not with the Thunder or Knicks) speculated that the Thunder would be open to the Ntilikina/Bullock package. Another exec pointed out that the trade market for Paul would be limited. So, if OKC wanted to get off Paul's contract, the Knicks wouldn't be competing with many other teams.






    SCENARIO II: Knicks trade Reggie Bullock and Kevin Knox for Paul

    CAP RAMIFICATIONS: In this scenario, we're assuming again the cap is $115 million, and the Knicks absorb Paul into cap space. To do that, they'd have to renounce/waive/stretch the players above and decline Portis' team option. They'd also again have to keep Bullock beyond his June 28 guarantee date.

    This trade would leave the Knicks with Smith Jr., Randle, Barrett, Ntilikina, Trier, Robinson, Dotson, Paul and Brazdeikis on the roster. If you include salaries for their two first-round picks (roughly $8 million in combined salary for 2020-21), they would have roughly $108.5 million in committed salary and $6.5 million in cap space. They would also have the room mid-level exception (projected at $5 million) and veteran's minimum exceptions (which are 1-2 year deals at the minimum salary).

    Same as the above scenario, this trade would see the Knicks give up their Bird rights to Harkless, a $4 million trade exception, the non-tax payer mid-level exception (projected at $9.8 million) and bi-annual exception ($3.8 million), or the tax-payer mid-level exception ($6 million).

    New York could instead include Ellington, Gibson and Payton in a Paul trade and keep the above exceptions. But Oklahoma City would have to guarantee all three players' 2020-21 salaries in the trade.

    Again, it all depends on how willing Oklahoma City is to trade Paul to create cap flexibility in future summers.

    One other note on a Paul deal: If Doston is included in a Paul deal -- and the deal is constructed to trade Paul into cap space -- Dotson would need to agree to be signed-and-traded. In this scenario, OKC would need to agree to be hard-capped at the $145M apron, putting a limit on how much money the club could spend.

  2. #2
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    I feel like we shouldnít include any young prospects for him. Heís making over $40 mil a year at age 35, they should have to include a pick or prospect just for us to take him.

    Iíd give Randle/DSJ thatís pretty much it. If you need to include Bullock fine although Iíd prefer to keep him.

  3. #3
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    I think Randle is going to get thrown in to offset some salary. Randle is basically an expiring contract. Like Iíve said Iím all for it. Knox or frank either one. Ideally dsj but I doubt they want him.
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  4. #4
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    Iíd give no one

    Still donít want him. Donít want the rest of that contract. Rather take shots at 2 offseasons to try and add some pieces

  5. #5
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    No thanks


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

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    Allegedly Leon Rose was hired by Jimmy D because he's more "in-step" with the upper tier of superstars. As proof of his "power of influence," Chris Paul who is one of his clients coming to New York would be a show of good faith in Dolan's investment in Rose.

    It's not a terrible plan but...BUT...it continues the legacy of the Knicks trading for aging veterans and superstars. That works if you are 1-2 pieces from a title but the Knicks are nowhere near that.

    I would prefer the Knicks stick to Plan A: Draft a goddam point guard. Lemelo, Cole, or Haliburton (depending on where they draft) give that Point guard the key to the car...and run those kids out there.

    NO. We're going to give away someone the Front Office didn't care to develop (again, the Knicks history over the last 20 yrs...if you're not Patrick Ewing in 3 seasons, you're GONE)...and get someone who will give the Knicks 2 seasons of mediocrity.

    And that's why I can NEVER be excited as a Knicks fan. the Script is repetitive.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    Allegedly Leon Rose was hired by Jimmy D because he's more "in-step" with the upper tier of superstars. As proof of his "power of influence," Chris Paul who is one of his clients coming to New York would be a show of good faith in Dolan's investment in Rose.

    It's not a terrible plan but...BUT...it continues the legacy of the Knicks trading for aging veterans and superstars. That works if you are 1-2 pieces from a title but the Knicks are nowhere near that.

    I would prefer the Knicks stick to Plan A: Draft a goddam point guard. Lemelo, Cole, or Haliburton (depending on where they draft) give that Point guard the key to the car...and run those kids out there.

    NO. We're going to give away someone the Front Office didn't care to develop (again, the Knicks history over the last 20 yrs...if you're not Patrick Ewing in 3 seasons, you're GONE)...and get someone who will give the Knicks 2 seasons of mediocrity.

    And that's why I can NEVER be excited as a Knicks fan. the Script is repetitive.
    This is largely true and I guess weíll have to wait and see what happens.

    They have the 25th pick in this draft. If it was Paul + that 25th pick for DSJ/Randle Iíd likely do it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxplayerxx23 View Post
    I think Randle is going to get thrown in to offset some salary. Randle is basically an expiring contract. Like Iíve said Iím all for it. Knox or frank either one. Ideally dsj but I doubt they want him.
    Begley is more on line using cap for the trade in both scenario's, no player needs to be included to make it work.

    That said CP3 even at his age would be the best player we have, not that make taking him right, not sure why he'd even want to come here unless other moves follow though?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    Begley is more on line using cap for the trade in both scenario's, no player needs to be included to make it work.

    That said CP3 even at his age would be the best player we have, not that make taking him right, not sure why he'd even want to come here unless other moves follow though?
    Iíd assume they go after Embiid like I speculated weeeks ago. Paul-RJ-Embiid. But yeah Iím not exactly sure anymore with the corona virus the cap might be under the 115 mark. If it is we wouldnít be able to put anything around them. That team needs two guys that can shoot 38-40+ from 3 for that to work. Iím also assuming RJ takes a huge step.
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  10. #10
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    According to a bunch of Knick beat writers, it's the worst kept secret that the Knicks will bring Melo in next year for his final farewell.

    When you look at the CP3 rumors through that lens, it makes more sense that they'd want CP3 and Melo on the squad together to bring a little bit of credibility back to the team and with the hope that we won't lose 60+ games in Melo's final season.

    Still, I'm not sure that justifies trading for in CP3, both in terms of what we'd give up and the salary cap space we'd use.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    Begley is more on line using cap for the trade in both scenario's, no player needs to be included to make it work.

    That said CP3 even at his age would be the best player we have, not that make taking him right, not sure why he'd even want to come here unless other moves follow though?
    He would be our best player by far obviously but heíll also probably retire in 2-3 years and knowing our luck whatever prospect/pick we give them ends up having a 15 year career as a consistent role player on championship contending teams.

    Just been burned too many times at this point, between Ariza, Nene, Noah, Lamarcus Aldridge, Hayward... all guys we dealt for trash over the past 2 decades and Iím sure Iím forgetting some.

    CP3 obviously isnít trash, heís in fact still pretty great. But terrible contract and heís old and has a bad injury history. They need to add value if they want to move him not demand it in the form of prospects or picks.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    He would be our best player by far obviously but heíll also probably retire in 2-3 years and knowing our luck whatever prospect/pick we give them ends up having a 15 year career as a consistent role player on championship contending teams.

    Just been burned too many times at this point, between Ariza, Nene, Noah, Lamarcus Aldridge, Hayward... all guys we dealt for trash over the past 2 decades and Iím sure Iím forgetting some.

    CP3 obviously isnít trash, heís in fact still pretty great. But terrible contract and heís old and has a bad injury history. They need to add value if they want to move him not demand it in the form of prospects or picks.
    I'm not sure Knicks history is a good reference to be honest?

    Ariza? CP3 is no Stevie Francis trying to make that work with Steph?
    Noah? Was a FA signing, not a trade
    Aldridge you are assuming that would have been the Knicks pick, they traded picks for Curry not players, he was even traded by the Bulls after he got picked for Tyrus Thomas, so that is a huge ?
    Hayward? who is Hayward Knicks?
    Nene? that was 2002 for McDyess, CP3 is no Mcdyess in roles for Knicks

    Understanding your point though, CP3 age is a detriment for sure, but what comes to mind is how much he also would help Mitch and RJ.........that may be my only reason for not be so upset by getting him.

    So Bullock I like but I think right now CP3 brings more to the team it's not close

    Frank forgetting its a sore subject. I wouldn't lose sleep over it, I didn't see any picks in the two scenarios and to be 100% against the trade means fans think we are giving up a FA coming here then?

    I can see really good arguments in both directions, but I do like the fact he will elevate and escalate both Mitch and RJ's game and also one of Knox or Frank's game as well depending on who goes.

    Nets had 4 vets make them a place players wanted to go, all vets were gone last year, and their young PG gone as well.......CP3 bringing Knicks somewhat respectability could add more than doing nothing.

    again two really great arguments, he is nobody this team has brought here or traded for in the past, he also still can play defense, he's old he's not dead.

    Lose no sleep if we don't trade for him either.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    I'm not sure Knicks history is a good reference to be honest?

    Ariza? CP3 is no Stevie Francis trying to make that work with Steph?
    Noah? Was a FA signing, not a trade
    Aldridge you are assuming that would have been the Knicks pick, they traded picks for Curry not players, he was even traded by the Bulls after he got picked for Tyrus Thomas, so that is a huge ?
    Hayward? who is Hayward Knicks?
    Nene? that was 2002 for McDyess, CP3 is no Mcdyess in roles for Knicks

    Understanding your point though, CP3 age is a detriment for sure, but what comes to mind is how much he also would help Mitch and RJ.........that may be my only reason for not be so upset by getting him.

    So Bullock I like but I think right now CP3 brings more to the team it's not close

    Frank forgetting its a sore subject. I wouldn't lose sleep over it, I didn't see any picks in the two scenarios and to be 100% against the trade means fans think we are giving up a FA coming here then?

    I can see really good arguments in both directions, but I do like the fact he will elevate and escalate both Mitch and RJ's game and also one of Knox or Frank's game as well depending on who goes.

    Nets had 4 vets make them a place players wanted to go, all vets were gone last year, and their young PG gone as well.......CP3 bringing Knicks somewhat respectability could add more than doing nothing.

    again two really great arguments, he is nobody this team has brought here or traded for in the past, he also still can play defense, he's old he's not dead.

    Lose no sleep if we don't trade for him either.
    I like CP3 even at age 35 and Iím one of the more open to bringing him here posters on this forum I think. But Iím not giving prospects or picks including Frank or Knox. We just do not have good foresight as a franchise and that was my point in bringing up those other players we lost in the past. Itís simply not easy to project prospectsí career trajectories at age 20/21. Sure Frank and Knox may end up being mostly bums but knowing our luck we deal them and the opposite happens. That was my point.

    Hayward pick was traded for Marbury.

    Noah pick was one of the picks that went for Eddy Curry. Again I know CP3 is 8 million times better than those guys but heís near the end of his career making over $40 million per. They need to add assets not us imo.

  14. #14
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    Im not against it but im only trading dsj and a 2nd

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    CP3 is vegan now so heís probably got another 5 years.

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