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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    If he had a 6 year career he may make it, the problem is the rest of his career.
    This is really interesting to me. I may start a thread on it. I have the opinion that longevity can never hurt a career. You can definitely flatline but it doesn't take away from your prior achievements.

    DPOY is very slanted toward centers and we've already discussed how the other centers in the league during Howards prime don't really measure up as great competition.
    But is that his fault? The game was changing and he was able to adapt and play the roll of traditional post-up option that commands double teams (which he did) and a modern pick and roll rim runner. I think that's a credit to his game not a detriment.

    Also, tell me how he is leading Hedo / Shard / Rafer / Jameer to the #1 defense in the NBA? If people want to debate his offensive game that's fine. We can run that out but defensively the dude was a monster. He earned every 1 of those DPOY awards.

    I wasn't arguing he couldn't dribble, rather that if he can't dribble out of a triple threat then it's not a triple threat ... so we agree on that. He did have a few moves down low, but he was mostly using speed and power that overwhelmed opponents.
    Yeah seems like we kinda half-agree / half-disagree here.


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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    This is really interesting to me. I may start a thread on it. I have the opinion that longevity can never hurt a career. You can definitely flatline but it doesn't take away from your prior achievements.



    But is that his fault? The game was changing and he was able to adapt and play the roll of traditional post-up option that commands double teams (which he did) and a modern pick and roll rim runner. I think that's a credit to his game not a detriment.

    Also, tell me how he is leading Hedo / Shard / Rafer / Jameer to the #1 defense in the NBA? If people want to debate his offensive game that's fine. We can run that out but defensively the dude was a monster. He earned every 1 of those DPOY awards.

    Yeah seems like we kinda half-agree / half-disagree here.
    Clearly some players do lose with time in their careers ... If Barry Bonds retired 4 years earlier he'd have been in the hall of fame for 5 years already. Now he may never make it.

    Howard's issues as a teammate and with his game became common knowledge because of what happened after those Orlando years.

    I don't "blame" Howard for the game moving on, I just don't credit him as much for DPOY as I would if there was stronger competition.

    I think we generally agree ... I don't think he's underrated, I don't think he's overrated, I think he's just rated. He's a top 25 center of all time, not a top 10 center of all time. A great, if limited, player.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Clearly some players do lose with time in their careers ... If Barry Bonds retired 4 years earlier he'd have been in the hall of fame for 5 years already. Now he may never make it.

    Howard's issues as a teammate and with his game became common knowledge because of what happened after those Orlando years.

    I don't "blame" Howard for the game moving on, I just don't credit him as much for DPOY as I would if there was stronger competition.

    I think we generally agree ... I don't think he's underrated, I don't think he's overrated, I think he's just rated. He's a top 25 center of all time, not a top 10 center of all time. A great, if limited, player.
    I'd consider him a top 10 spot.

    KAJ
    Russell
    Chamberlain
    Shaq
    Hakeem
    Ewing
    Robinson
    Moses Malone

    Most of the other centers ranked above him are usually guys who played during the 50-70's. I never saw them play but I can't imagine someone like Dwight not generating insane numbers back then. I considered Walton but his short career can't contest with Dwight. Other than the centers above, Dwight has just as much of a discussion to be ahead of them. I might be missing a few names but I do believe he would qualify as a top ten spot. Prime Dwight was a top five player at the very least when guys like Kobe, Bron, Wade, and CP3 ran the league. Kobe+Bron are two top-ten players of all-time. Dwight was an animal. He didn't play against the best centers of all-time like the 90's but the 90's focused heavily on frontcourt dominance whereas during Dwight's prime, it was more perimeter-oriented. He was a bit overrated defensively but he still won three DPOY. He was one of the best rebounders and if this guy catches the ball anywhere under the rim, you are getting dunked on.

  4. #64
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    Guys I have unquestionably ahead of Dwight:

    Bill Russell
    Kareem Abdul-Jabber
    Shaquille OíNeal
    Wilt Chamberlain
    Hakeem Olajuwon
    Moses Malone
    David Robinson
    Patrick Ewing
    Bill Walton

    So the best he could possibly be IMO is Top 10, but at this point I donít know if heís better than all of:

    Alonzo Mourning
    Bob Lanier
    Artis Gilmore
    Willis Reed

    So he could be top 15 or 15-20. I also think if they stay healthy all of Jokic, Embiid and Possibly Towns have a chance of surpassing him (Towns has the farthest to go). And that could push him down further.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Guys I have unquestionably ahead of Dwight:

    Bill Russell
    Kareem Abdul-Jabber
    Shaquille OíNeal
    Wilt Chamberlain
    Hakeem Olajuwon
    Moses Malone
    David Robinson
    Patrick Ewing
    Bill Walton

    So the best he could possibly be IMO is Top 10, but at this point I donít know if heís better than all of:

    Alonzo Mourning
    Bob Lanier
    Artis Gilmore
    Willis Reed

    So he could be top 15 or 15-20. I also think if they stay healthy all of Jokic, Embiid and Possibly Towns have a chance of surpassing him (Towns has the farthest to go). And that could push him down further.
    Gobert as well if he can get 2-3 more DPOY and make more all-NBA teams. Right now, he's got a better career than those three you have mentioned.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Guys I have unquestionably ahead of Dwight:

    Bill Russell
    Kareem Abdul-Jabber
    Shaquille OíNeal
    Wilt Chamberlain
    Hakeem Olajuwon
    Moses Malone
    David Robinson
    Patrick Ewing
    Bill Walton

    So the best he could possibly be IMO is Top 10, but at this point I donít know if heís better than all of:

    Alonzo Mourning
    Bob Lanier
    Artis Gilmore
    Willis Reed

    So he could be top 15 or 15-20. I also think if they stay healthy all of Jokic, Embiid and Possibly Towns have a chance of surpassing him (Towns has the farthest to go). And that could push him down further.
    Willis is a league MVP and 2 times finals MVP he has to be top 10.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Willis is a league MVP and 2 times finals MVP he has to be top 10.


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    You mean back when there were like 12 teams and half of them had bench players as starters? That hardly qualifies as being better than Dwight Howard who would dominate the late 60-70's moreso than Reed.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    You mean back when there were like 12 teams and half of them had bench players as starters? That hardly qualifies as being better than Dwight Howard who would dominate the late 60-70's moreso than Reed.
    How did they come off the bench and start at the same time?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    How did they come off the bench and start at the same time?


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    0/10, not funny. I noticed you disappeared from that last dance thread when you claimed the game was tied before Pip committed the foul and also when you said Bulls weren't the favorites vs Pacers but you were debunked.... where did you go?

  10. #70
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    Dwight Howard is criminally underrated

    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    0/10, not funny. I noticed you disappeared from that last dance thread when you claimed the game was tied before Pip committed the foul and also when you said Bulls weren't the favorites vs Pacers but you were debunked.... where did you go?
    Sorry I got the score wrong, they still would have been underdogs against the Pacers, less teams donít make the league best players worse, and it actually makes the average starter better. I got one thing wrong while you got 3. I win


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    Last edited by ewing; 05-25-2020 at 12:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Willis is a league MVP and 2 times finals MVP he has to be top 10.
    I judge far less on accolades and far more on simply how good you were. That being said I originally had Reed listed as the 10th guy so heíd probably be 10th. Him or Zo probably.

  12. #72
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    KAB, Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, Malone, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning, Parish, McAdoo, Gilmour, Reed, Lanier, Unseld, Mutombo, Thurmond, Mikan, Walton, Ming, Cowens

    I'd say Howard would go somewhere after Zo..

    I actually would pick Shaq in a all time draft with all players in their prime. I just think he's the most dominant.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I judge far less on accolades and far more on simply how good you were. That being said I originally had Reed listed as the 10th guy so heíd probably be 10th. Him or Zo probably.
    How do you do that? I mean how many Willis Reed games have you seen?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Guys I have unquestionably ahead of Dwight:

    Bill Russell
    Kareem Abdul-Jabber
    Shaquille OíNeal
    Wilt Chamberlain
    Hakeem Olajuwon
    Moses Malone
    David Robinson
    Patrick Ewing
    Bill Walton

    So the best he could possibly be IMO is Top 10, but at this point I donít know if heís better than all of:

    Alonzo Mourning
    Bob Lanier
    Artis Gilmore
    Willis Reed

    So he could be top 15 or 15-20. I also think if they stay healthy all of Jokic, Embiid and Possibly Towns have a chance of surpassing him (Towns has the farthest to go). And that could push him down further.
    I have Reed above Ewing. Zo was better than Dwight it's just he flunked his sessions to prove it. it was also kind of flukish that Zo peaked during the lockout period when everyone else wasn't taking their physical fitness as seriously.

    to this day I believe Zo could've actually contended if only he didn't face Ewing every single year.

    I dont see the argument for anyone else on ur honorable mentions. what did Lanier accomplish?

  15. #75
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    Howard over Mutombo? No no no no no no!

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