Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 96
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,721
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    He and Kevin Stefanski were the two names that I wanted the Redskins to hire. Bienemy may have been hurt by the Chiefs Super Bowl run though and not being able to officially commit to the job until after the team lost.
    This is just my opinion on it: I think the timing thing is more of an excuse from teams. I think the 'advantage' teams thing they are getting by signing someone early is actually a disadvantage.

    I heard someone on the radio mentioning this, and said the hurry to sign a coach means something is going to be cut short in the background checking. I disagree with this take of it because teams are continually assessing things like this.

    I feel the disadvantage comes from some teams making the change early and the coach/GM thinking they have the time to 'redo' the entire scouting process before the draft. Sometimes not having as much time means you have to use the work that's already been done.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Annapolis MD
    Posts
    17,286
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    This is just my opinion on it: I think the timing thing is more of an excuse from teams. I think the 'advantage' teams thing they are getting by signing someone early is actually a disadvantage.

    I heard someone on the radio mentioning this, and said the hurry to sign a coach means something is going to be cut short in the background checking. I disagree with this take of it because teams are continually assessing things like this.

    I feel the disadvantage comes from some teams making the change early and the coach/GM thinking they have the time to 'redo' the entire scouting process before the draft. Sometimes not having as much time means you have to use the work that's already been done.
    The biggest advantage to having someone announced early is that you have the pick of the assistant coaching pool. You can still nab guys from college, coaches are letting assistants and coordinators go and some teams have fired their whole staff.

    Dan Snyder hired Ron Rivera two days after the season ended, and he immediately had Jack Del Rio under contract as his DC, and moved quickly to hire most of the rest of his staff.

    If you wait until after the Super Bowl, things get dicey for assembling a first year staff. No one really wants to rock the boat with guys who are already hired, so you are settling for any college movement and those who weren't picked up yet.

    Snyder in a sense did it right- he spent the second half of the season heavily investigating things. He assembled a committee, which included Joe Gibbs and Urban Meyer. They got him names, which were parsed down to two finalists- Rick Smith as a GM, and Ron Rivera as the coach-centered approach. Both got a chance to present proposals to Snyder in December, and he ultimately chose Rivera.

    If you plan to fire a coach, you should be looking at things much sooner than Week 16 or 17. Firing someone because they don't make the playoffs........meh. That shouldn't be the barometer for firing someone, especially if they are struggling a few years in.

    Rivera also kept the front office intact minus one, and let them essentially run the draft.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    11,785
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    He and Kevin Stefanski were the two names that I wanted the Redskins to hire. Bienemy may have been hurt by the Chiefs Super Bowl run though and not being able to officially commit to the job until after the team lost.
    did Eric get even one interview? just wrong....and it can't all be blamed on a deep run, other coaches got jobs

    course that also brings up the question of a playoff moratorium on hires, but we all know the conversations would keep happening anyway
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Annapolis MD
    Posts
    17,286
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    did Eric get even one interview? just wrong....and it can't all be blamed on a deep run, other coaches got jobs

    course that also brings up the question of a playoff moratorium on hires, but we all know the conversations would keep happening anyway
    I personally believe that teams shouldn't do any hires until a week after the SUper Bowl, but with the FA period already having tampering, you can imagine what would happen with coaches.

    He had interviews with the Panthers, Giants and Browns. He also had some college ones as well.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    11,785
    perhaps the adjustment shouldn't be to reward teams that do what they should, but punish those who don't

    imagine the scenario where a team gets a generational talent ahead of a team who was positioned for it....just because the guy they wanted anyway happened to be black....like, say, bienemy next offseason gets hired by the 2nd worst team and is granted the #1 overall pick
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,721
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    perhaps the adjustment shouldn't be to reward teams that do what they should, but punish those who don't

    imagine the scenario where a team gets a generational talent ahead of a team who was positioned for it....just because the guy they wanted anyway happened to be black....like, say, bienemy next offseason gets hired by the 2nd worst team and is granted the #1 overall pick
    Well they wonít get that pick.

    For coaches itís after year 2, their 3rd jumps 6 spots. After year 3 the 5th jumps 3 spots.

    For GMs itís after year 2, their 3rd jumps 10 spots. After year three the 5th jumps 5 spots.

    So hire a minority GM and Coach in the same year, 2 years later you might move from a early/mid-3rd to a 2nd.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,721
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    The biggest advantage to having someone announced early is that you have the pick of the assistant coaching pool. You can still nab guys from college, coaches are letting assistants and coordinators go and some teams have fired their whole staff.

    Dan Snyder hired Ron Rivera two days after the season ended, and he immediately had Jack Del Rio under contract as his DC, and moved quickly to hire most of the rest of his staff.

    If you wait until after the Super Bowl, things get dicey for assembling a first year staff. No one really wants to rock the boat with guys who are already hired, so you are settling for any college movement and those who weren't picked up yet.

    Snyder in a sense did it right- he spent the second half of the season heavily investigating things. He assembled a committee, which included Joe Gibbs and Urban Meyer. They got him names, which were parsed down to two finalists- Rick Smith as a GM, and Ron Rivera as the coach-centered approach. Both got a chance to present proposals to Snyder in December, and he ultimately chose Rivera.

    If you plan to fire a coach, you should be looking at things much sooner than Week 16 or 17. Firing someone because they don't make the playoffs........meh. That shouldn't be the barometer for firing someone, especially if they are struggling a few years in.

    Rivera also kept the front office intact minus one, and let them essentially run the draft.
    Iím glad they did that but a fact of the matter is most teams donít. I think they should consider bumping back the start of FA and the draft by 2 weeks and not allow hiring of coaches until a week after the Super Bowl. As it is right now Bienemy only had the bye week to interview and by the time the SB hit all positions were filled. So itís kinda ironic that the NFLs system of interviewing actually hurt the possible best minority candidate out there.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    11,785
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Well they wonít get that pick.

    For coaches itís after year 2, their 3rd jumps 6 spots. After year 3 the 5th jumps 3 spots.

    For GMs itís after year 2, their 3rd jumps 10 spots. After year three the 5th jumps 5 spots.

    So hire a minority GM and Coach in the same year, 2 years later you might move from a early/mid-3rd to a 2nd.
    Regardless, the whole idea just smacks of going down some wrong rabbit holes.
    Attack the problem, don't create another game for teams to play with it.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,721
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Regardless, the whole idea just smacks of going down some wrong rabbit holes.
    Attack the problem, don't create another game for teams to play with it.
    Oh definitely. As I looked at more and more coaching staffs, and I pointed this out, a high number of position coaches are minorities. So the first barrier is to help them become coordinators.

    If we just face the facts here, itís easier to get a HC job right now if you are an OC. OCs are overwhelmingly white (30/32). Overwhelming number of QB coaches are white (I think itís 31/32). Yes thereís a good number of minority RB coaches/WR coaches/TE coaches. Because the path seems to be QCC -> QBC -> OC -> HC, I think thereís got to be a program/way to disrupt that and help change that pattern.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    11,950
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Oh definitely. As I looked at more and more coaching staffs, and I pointed this out, a high number of position coaches are minorities. So the first barrier is to help them become coordinators.

    If we just face the facts here, itís easier to get a HC job right now if you are an OC. OCs are overwhelmingly white (30/32). Overwhelming number of QB coaches are white (I think itís 31/32). Yes thereís a good number of minority RB coaches/WR coaches/TE coaches. Because the path seems to be QCC -> QBC -> OC -> HC, I think thereís got to be a program/way to disrupt that and help change that pattern.
    I crunched some numbers while listening to a work call. Here's the general background of all current nfl head coaches. It won't add up to 32 because I included all experience. I didn't fully count quality control because that position has had a variety of names over the years and all quality control coaches have jumped to a different position before going to coordinator or HC. For all listed positions, I did include the person if their title inclided assistant, like assistant qb coach because that means you were in the room.

    Here's the NFL experience of those coaches:

    14 have been an OC
    13 have coached QBs
    4 have coached TEs
    3 have coached RBs
    9 have coached WRs
    4 have coached OL

    10 have been a DC
    1 has coached DL
    7 have coached LBs
    8 have coached DBs (didn't break out but safety seemed more popular than CB)
    5 have coached special teams

    6 have been a college HC
    7 have been a college OC
    2 have been a college DC

    One thing I found interesting though was that all but 7 had some kind of college experience. Many were just a grad assistant or college positional coach before moving on to the nfl to be a offensive/defensive assistant or quality control or positional coach. Some stayed awhile in college but alot stayed only for a few years. But that's still where most get their start.

    Couple of other points too. The trenches clearly aren't super valuable to coaching experience. I think most of the OL and DL assistants had experience with another position too, for instance Andy Reid was an assistant OL coach early in his career before also coaching WRs and QBs. Clearly the passing game is very important, as qb, wr and DB are the highest positional spots. Lb is surprising either as it sort of melds together some run and pass principals. In actuslly a little surprised that TE isn't higher for the same reason, as TEs have to spend time with the run game and with the passing game more than any other spot.

    I'm also interested to see if there's a difference as teams are starting to hand out passing game and running game coordinator type roles too.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 05-18-2020 at 11:30 AM.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    20,217
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    I wonder if that's because they've already gotten paid. I mean, everyone is saying Tony Romo would make a great coach, but why go back to the NFL and go through the coaches grind when he can get paid the same (or more) for broadcasting, which is much less of a grind and allows him to pursue golfing more.

    The other thing to consider is that many former NFL players can parlay their likeness and fame into TV and radio jobs post-career. For example, the following Redskins players make a career in either of those ways right now- Clinton Portis, Brian Mitchell, Santana Moss, Fred Smoot, Chris Cooley, LaVar Arrington and I'm sure I am missing some. Meanwhile, a lot of the lower level coaches such as quality control guys are college players who maybe never got their NFL shot, and immediately jumped into coaching. Some of them might even start coaching in college as GA's after their playing career like Kirby Smart.
    Mark Schlereth
    Alfred Williams
    Orlando Franklin
    Brandon Stokley
    Dave Logan
    Tyler Polumbus
    Steve Atwater
    Terrell Davis
    Tom Nalen
    Nick Ferguson

    That's the list off the top of my head of former Broncos players who are currently or have recently worked for local or national TV/radio.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    20,217
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    He and Kevin Stefanski were the two names that I wanted the Redskins to hire. Bienemy may have been hurt by the Chiefs Super Bowl run though and not being able to officially commit to the job until after the team lost.
    According to Benjamin Albright, Bienemy was completely blowing the interview process. He was the favorite of one team but then interviewed so poorly that they had to move in a different direction.

    Plus Bienemy has made some poor decisions in the past. Driving poorly enough to get your license suspended, still driving with a suspended license and getting caught, blowing off your court date after getting caught, going to jail for hit and run, and he also was banned from CU's campus for assaulting a parking attendant. How many head coaches have been banned from their Alma Mater?

    Obviously these things happened a long time ago but I think it's enough to question putting him in charge of a football team.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    20,217
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    did Eric get even one interview? just wrong....and it can't all be blamed on a deep run, other coaches got jobs

    course that also brings up the question of a playoff moratorium on hires, but we all know the conversations would keep happening anyway
    Panthers and Giants interviewed him a few months ago

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,721

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    11,950
    Interesting. Wonder if this will be posturing to save face when they turn down the draft compensation peice of things.

    Here's the problem though, I know people have brought up examples of guys who were supposed to be the token minority interview blowing teams away and getting the job, but as a whole, looking at the lack of minority coaches currently in the nfl, I'm not sure yoh can say the rooney rule has had any real positive impact. Expanding it to coordinator could be interesting, but I doubt having to interview 2 minority head coach candidates instead of 1 is going to change anything. Seems like more optics than anything.

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •